"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Alruneia
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Fri May 22, 2020 7:14 am

Noitsnothim wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:37 pm
Goku digging deep into his reserves is actually him using Kaioken (Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken's actual debut in the manga is right here)
Since the description uses that phrase again, "the principle of Kaioken", I'm honestly not convinced. The "Blue Kaioken" title might be there because it's shorter to say, not because it's accurate. I think I'll wait for an actual trusted translation on this one.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The Undying » Fri May 22, 2020 1:21 pm

Cipher translated the whole thing here:

Image

Some key takeaways:

- "Blue Kaioken" might be a convenient shorthand rather than a literal Kaioken. The blurb still mentions that he's only using the principles of Kaioken to stress the form beyond its normal limit, just like what the manga said, although I suppose it's all up to interpretation.

- Goku and Vegeta really did learn to transform into Super Saiyan God on their own after Battle of Gods. I'd suspected this, but it's nice to have that extra confirmation. The ritual retains its status as a temporary method, but it's just one of two ways to activate SSG.

- Blue Vegetto rivals Beerus. Not sure why that was ever debatable (there wouldn't be dialogue mentioning it in the first place if it wasn't true) but there you go.

- Blue Evolved is a "uniquely styled mastery of Blue", so it's still just Blue at its core.

None of this information is terribly new, but it confirms what you could infer by just reading the manga.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Fri May 22, 2020 2:46 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:42 pm
Noitsnothim wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:37 pm
Off topic but V-Jump has revealed some info on new forms that were shown off in the T.O.P

Goku digging deep into his reserves is actually him using Kaioken (Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken's actual debut in the manga is right here)

This right here to no one's surprise is Super Saiyan Blue Evolution but in V-Jump & The manga of Super I assume it goes by a different name It's actually called 'Evolution of Blue'
Very interesting. I always thought that Goku was just powering up, I never believed Toyotaro brought the Kaioken into the manga.
it seems to me more like "proof" that toei is involved in the original script too
which makes sense many of the characters and transformations are their ideas

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Fri May 22, 2020 3:11 pm

The Undying wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:21 pm
Cipher translated the whole thing here:

Image

Some key takeaways:

- "Blue Kaioken" might be a convenient shorthand rather than a literal Kaioken. The blurb still mentions that he's only using the principles of Kaioken to stress the form beyond its normal limit, just like what the manga said, although I suppose it's all up to interpretation.

- Goku and Vegeta really did learn to transform into Super Saiyan God on their own after Battle of Gods. I'd suspected this, but it's nice to have that extra confirmation. The ritual retains its status as a temporary method, but it's just one of two ways to activate SSG.

- Blue Vegetto rivals Beerus. Not sure why that was ever debatable (there wouldn't be dialogue mentioning it in the first place if it wasn't true) but there you go.

- Blue Evolved is a "uniquely styled mastery of Blue", so it's still just Blue at its core.

None of this information is terribly new, but it confirms what you could infer by just reading the manga.
Image
In case anyone's confused about how Super Saiyan Blue works

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Fri May 22, 2020 3:38 pm

This is bullshit.

Beerus >>>> Moro > Broly > Jiren Limits Surpassed > latest and half way top SSJ Blue Goku and Vegeta > first appearance UIO Goku > Kaioken x20 SSJ Blue Goku (first appearance) > SSJ Blue Vegito from the Future Trunks Arc.

He has LONG been surpassed. And I don’t care what Toei or Toriyama all say. In-universe Evidence > Statements.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Fri May 22, 2020 4:01 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:38 pm
This is bullshit.

Beerus >>>> Moro > Broly > Jiren Limits Surpassed > latest and half way top SSJ Blue Goku and Vegeta > first appearance UIO Goku > Kaioken x20 SSJ Blue Goku (first appearance) > SSJ Blue Vegito from the Future Trunks Arc.

He has LONG been surpassed. And I don’t care what Toei or Toriyama all say. In-universe Evidence > Statements.
This list is all wrong..
What makes you think Beerus is so far above Moro, Broly and Jiren, considering all three have been compared to a GoD, even said to surpass that level.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Fri May 22, 2020 4:02 pm

Xeogran wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:01 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:38 pm
This is bullshit.

Beerus >>>> Moro > Broly > Jiren Limits Surpassed > latest and half way top SSJ Blue Goku and Vegeta > first appearance UIO Goku > Kaioken x20 SSJ Blue Goku (first appearance) > SSJ Blue Vegito from the Future Trunks Arc.

He has LONG been surpassed. And I don’t care what Toei or Toriyama all say. In-universe Evidence > Statements.
This list is all wrong..
What makes you think Beerus is so far above Moro, Broly and Jiren, considering all three have been compared to a GoD, even said to surpass that level.
Image
Thought this was interesting

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Fri May 22, 2020 4:04 pm

Image

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Fri May 22, 2020 4:04 pm

The Undying wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:21 pm
Cipher translated the whole thing here:

Image

Some key takeaways:

- "Blue Kaioken" might be a convenient shorthand rather than a literal Kaioken. The blurb still mentions that he's only using the principles of Kaioken to stress the form beyond its normal limit, just like what the manga said, although I suppose it's all up to interpretation.

- Goku and Vegeta really did learn to transform into Super Saiyan God on their own after Battle of Gods. I'd suspected this, but it's nice to have that extra confirmation. The ritual retains its status as a temporary method, but it's just one of two ways to activate SSG.

- Blue Vegetto rivals Beerus. Not sure why that was ever debatable (there wouldn't be dialogue mentioning it in the first place if it wasn't true) but there you go.

- Blue Evolved is a "uniquely styled mastery of Blue", so it's still just Blue at its core.

None of this information is terribly new, but it confirms what you could infer by just reading the manga.
I wonder why SSB is called a miraculous evolution. It is not the first time that this form has been treated as "Ultimate form" or something like that

It is interesting to note also how Blue Kaioken is called a temporary power up (more like a power boost), while Blue evolved is called "unique styled mastery of Blue"

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:19 am

Now I just feel dum tbh.

I didn't try to overcomplicats things, but the freaking Manga has not be clear with the Blue forms.

It all started with Goku using Perfected Blue against Zamasu, which we initially thought was the Manga's Kaio Ken (because it could multiply blue's strength, given that it was in a weakened state).

But it has always been full potential blue.

Then fast forward to the ToP and everyone says that it looks like the KK. But it's on top this Perfected Blue. And there is no double aura (Toei did this one right tbh). So knowing that Power stressing is similar to the KK I could only assume that this was a 'Grade 2 Blue'.

Manga's Evolution also seemed different. No muscle gain, no visible pupils, different aura (probably the same color as normal blue) and again on top of this 'perfected' blue.

I get that these forms were the Manga's counterparts, but the Manga did an awful job presenting them for me. So much so that I considered them entirely different forms....
Perfected Blue has always been treated as using 100% of the power of transformation for long periods of time, that is, it is not a new way. Some people just equated this form with Blue Kaioken to compare anime and manga. There is no double aura for the Kaioken Blue in the manga because these stressed power / Kaioken principles are stacked with a form (Perfected Blue) that does not use the aura.

And evolved Blue is more like a powered version of Blue than an entirely new transformation like in the anime. Not all transformations in the manga are exactly the same as in the anime

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Fri May 22, 2020 4:07 pm

Noitsnothim wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:02 pm
Xeogran wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:01 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:38 pm
This is bullshit.

Beerus >>>> Moro > Broly > Jiren Limits Surpassed > latest and half way top SSJ Blue Goku and Vegeta > first appearance UIO Goku > Kaioken x20 SSJ Blue Goku (first appearance) > SSJ Blue Vegito from the Future Trunks Arc.

He has LONG been surpassed. And I don’t care what Toei or Toriyama all say. In-universe Evidence > Statements.
This list is all wrong..
What makes you think Beerus is so far above Moro, Broly and Jiren, considering all three have been compared to a GoD, even said to surpass that level.
Image
Thought this was interesting
You're images aren't working.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Fri May 22, 2020 4:08 pm

Miracles wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:07 pm
Noitsnothim wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:02 pm
Xeogran wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:01 pm


This list is all wrong..
What makes you think Beerus is so far above Moro, Broly and Jiren, considering all three have been compared to a GoD, even said to surpass that level.
Image
Thought this was interesting
You're images aren't working.
I wonder what's going on .-.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Fri May 22, 2020 4:22 pm

Image
What do you all make of this?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ShaggyBlanco » Fri May 22, 2020 4:43 pm

Noitsnothim wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:22 pm
Image
What do you all make of this?
Still not working for me, but I could see the first image after filling some Capcha, so here's a mirror
Image

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Fri May 22, 2020 5:31 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:38 pm
This is bullshit.

Beerus >>>> Moro > Broly > Jiren Limits Surpassed > latest and half way top SSJ Blue Goku and Vegeta > first appearance UIO Goku > Kaioken x20 SSJ Blue Goku (first appearance) > SSJ Blue Vegito from the Future Trunks Arc.
When they say Vegetto is stronger, they're talking about him in the event of the current Goku and Vegeta fusing, not their fusion from 3 stories ago.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Fri May 22, 2020 5:52 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:31 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:38 pm
This is bullshit.

Beerus >>>> Moro > Broly > Jiren Limits Surpassed > latest and half way top SSJ Blue Goku and Vegeta > first appearance UIO Goku > Kaioken x20 SSJ Blue Goku (first appearance) > SSJ Blue Vegito from the Future Trunks Arc.
When they say Vegetto is stronger, they're talking about him in the event of the current Goku and Vegeta fusing, not their fusion from 3 stories ago.
Really? I thought V-Jump was referring to Shin's quote. Saying that about current Vegito would be a truism, right now he'd destroy Beerus, in the Broly movie he was already casually wiping the floor with a guy who probably surpassed Beerus.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Triggered Vegeta » Fri May 22, 2020 6:38 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:52 pm
Matches Malone wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:31 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:38 pm
This is bullshit.

Beerus >>>> Moro > Broly > Jiren Limits Surpassed > latest and half way top SSJ Blue Goku and Vegeta > first appearance UIO Goku > Kaioken x20 SSJ Blue Goku (first appearance) > SSJ Blue Vegito from the Future Trunks Arc.
When they say Vegetto is stronger, they're talking about him in the event of the current Goku and Vegeta fusing, not their fusion from 3 stories ago.
Really? I thought V-Jump was referring to Shin's quote. Saying that about current Vegito would be a truism, right now he'd destroy Beerus, in the Broly movie he was already casually wiping the floor with a guy who probably surpassed Beerus.
Yeah there is no other Vegito Blue besides the one from Goku Black arc. Broly has Al ready been compared to Beerus & we have seen what Gogeta did to him. It'd make zero sense for Beerus to rival current Vegito... Vegito, unlike in the anime was incredibly powerful. Toyed with Zamasu who is equal to Perfected Blue. Beerus also smashed someone on that Level. Vegeta.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by pepd » Fri May 22, 2020 7:58 pm

Noitsnothim wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:37 pm
Off topic but V-Jump has revealed some info on new forms that were shown off in the T.O.P
Goku digging deep into his reserves is actually him using Kaioken (Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken's actual debut in the manga is right here)
This right here to no one's surprise (I hope) is Super Saiyan Blue Evolution but in V-Jump & The manga of Super I assume it goes by a different name It's actually called 'Evolution of Blue'
Well, it needs a name for merch and I guess it helps unifying the different continuities, still doubt this was Toyotarō's intentions, wonder if he will adopt the terms. It's fine as long as they use only the names and don't come up with numbers for the Kaioken or change ssbe manga looks.

emperior wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:56 am
It was always obvious that Goku was using Kaioken, wasn’t it? That aura is the same as Kaioken’s and nothing like Super Saiyan Blue’s. And after Tenshinan said it was “the same principle as Kaioken” (likely he was taught something of it from King Kai, as he never witnessed the technique first hand) Krillin said “the Kaioken, after all this time?” thus confirming that Goku was indeed using it.
Maybe you are mixing the anime and manga auras, in the manga the ssjb aura is just the jelly/sparks with a regular aura, sometimes represented with a single continuous line, and others with multiple parallels lines like in this “ssjbkk”.
As for the Kurilin comment, that line alone without context would confirm that is Kaioken, but not in the full conversation.
Just pointing out that it was not confirmed, who knows, maybe they did wanted to say it was Kaioken.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Fri May 22, 2020 8:09 pm

pepd wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 7:58 pm
Still doubt this was Toyotarō's intentions, wonder if he will adopt the terms.
As far as we know, Toriyama, Toyotaro, Toei's staff, and the dragon room all work together when coming up with stories and concepts. Just as these anime concepts are making their way into the manga, it was Toyotaro's idea to have Vegetto fight Zamasu, which made it into the anime. It was also his idea to bring back SsjG, something both Toei and Toriyama followed with in their stories.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Fri May 22, 2020 9:32 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:38 pm
This is bullshit.

Beerus >>>> Moro > Broly > Jiren Limits Surpassed > latest and half way top SSJ Blue Goku and Vegeta > first appearance UIO Goku > Kaioken x20 SSJ Blue Goku (first appearance) > SSJ Blue Vegito from the Future Trunks Arc.

He has LONG been surpassed. And I don’t care what Toei or Toriyama all say. In-universe Evidence > Statements.
These statements from V-Jump aren't in the actual narrative. Meaning they aren't from Toriyama.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Fri May 22, 2020 11:55 pm

Funny no one mentioned that the manga version of blue kaioken confirms the aura is blue and not red like in the anime. Can't wait for the coloured version to see how it actually looks.

And they used a panel from the latest chapter to illustrate Evolved Blue Vegeta. Didn't notice he is using Evolved Blue vs Moro, he is not messing around.

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