"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Noitsnothim]

But seriously, no one else thinks it's the height of stupidity for Moro to even get a power boost like this from 7-3? I'm the only one that has a problem with him becoming so much stronger just from eating an android that's maybe ssj3 tier?

He claims to have reclaimed the height of his power, that he had stored a copy of that power level, a power level stronger than he was when he was going toe to toe with Omen UI Goku a minute ago, and beat him. When did he store that kind of power in 7-3?

And he gets this strong and just SLAPS Vegeta into unconsciousness. Everyone's arguing about Vegeta's character or Moro's appearance, really no one has a problem with the logistics of Moro's absurd power leap? When I read it, it felt like insultingly bad writing.

This is a plot hole because now Moro's battle power is left up for interpretation (was he stronger than Beerus? did he reach Angel level?) If that's the case then Vegeta's Spirit Separation was truly the only way they could have beaten Moro without the gods stepping in

but now he said he's regained that same level of power back but I believe Vegeta will be key in Separating the two and killing Moro Merus would probably step in to wear Moro down so Vegeta can do his magic

[Dragon Wukong]

But seriously, no one else thinks it's the height of stupidity for Moro to even get a power boost like this from 7-3? I'm the only one that has a problem with him becoming so much stronger just from eating an android that's maybe ssj3 tier?

He claims to have reclaimed the height of his power, that he had stored a copy of that power level, a power level stronger than he was when he was going toe to toe with Omen UI Goku a minute ago, and beat him. When did he store that kind of power in 7-3?

And he gets this strong and just SLAPS Vegeta into unconsciousness. Everyone's arguing about Vegeta's character or Moro's appearance, really no one has a problem with the logistics of Moro's absurd power leap? When I read it, it felt like insultingly bad writing.

It's an android that has the power to copy powers. When Seven-Three uses those powers, they disappear. I don't find it a stretch to think that Moro gave Seven-Three access to his inherent abilities before the invasion but told him to never use his backed-up power after he was copied. That's how I view it anyhow. I don't think it's a big plot hole given the android's power set in the first place, it's just not really given that in depth of an explanation.

[Mister_Popo]

But seriously, no one else thinks it's the height of stupidity for Moro to even get a power boost like this from 7-3? I'm the only one that has a problem with him becoming so much stronger just from eating an android that's maybe ssj3 tier?

He claims to have reclaimed the height of his power, that he had stored a copy of that power level, a power level stronger than he was when he was going toe to toe with Omen UI Goku a minute ago, and beat him. When did he store that kind of power in 7-3?

And he gets this strong and just SLAPS Vegeta into unconsciousness. Everyone's arguing about Vegeta's character or Moro's appearance, really no one has a problem with the logistics of Moro's absurd power leap? When I read it, it felt like insultingly bad writing.

It's an android that has the power to copy powers. When Seven-Three uses those powers, they disappear. I don't find it a stretch to think that Moro gave Seven-Three access to his inherent abilities before the invasion but told him to never use his backed-up power after he was copied. That's how I view it anyhow. I don't think it's a big plot hole given the android's power set in the first place, it's just not really given that in depth of an explanation.

Seven-three gets others powers by touching them.
Wasn't Moro the last one to touch Seven-three after he was defeated from his fight with Android 17?
That's the same shot when he says he should come in handy later on.
Moro could have seen by then 'those guys here are a little stronger than i thought, they have defeated Seven-three, which i hadn't thought, others may still arrive, i'll probably win but let's use the android as back-up, just in case.'

[Miracles]

But seriously, no one else thinks it's the height of stupidity for Moro to even get a power boost like this from 7-3? I'm the only one that has a problem with him becoming so much stronger just from eating an android that's maybe ssj3 tier?

He claims to have reclaimed the height of his power, that he had stored a copy of that power level, a power level stronger than he was when he was going toe to toe with Omen UI Goku a minute ago, and beat him. When did he store that kind of power in 7-3?

And he gets this strong and just SLAPS Vegeta into unconsciousness. Everyone's arguing about Vegeta's character or Moro's appearance, really no one has a problem with the logistics of Moro's absurd power leap? When I read it, it felt like insultingly bad writing.

Moro stored his former power in 7-3 [The one that beat UI omen Goku]. On top of that, he took 7-3's battle power, which naturally would make his ki higher than what it was against UI Omen Goku. Vegeta wasn't able to even contend with the former Moro, it's no surprise that a stronger Moro would tuck Vegeta in.

[Gogeta SSJ Blue]

Do you think we might get Gogeta Blue using the move he used previously on Super Janemba to defeat him sucessfully?

[Gt91]

Do you think we might get Gogeta Blue using the move he used previously on Super Janemba to defeat him sucessfully?

I don't know, they used gogeta in the previous arc (broly arc).
I would like to see something different this time, for example merus/beerus in action, UI goku with something new, vegeta with a new trasformation ecc

[TKA]

I see it more as a combination of expanding and expounding. It's why I've been using the word "extension" so often - this is taking a pre-established aspect of Vegeta's character and extending it to an entirely new kind of situation. We've seen Vegeta show remorse and attempt to fix his mistakes retrospectively, but we've never seen him in circumstances where he's directly forced to confront (and protect) a group of people representing those mistakes in real time.

I actually disagree here.

We already got a scene of Vegeta facing down his mistake in real time. Majin Buu. He, at the time, put Buu on the backburner because measuring himself against Goku was the most important thing to him. The fight ends when he realizes that Buu is way stronger than he predicted, and then he takes Goku out to try to fix the mess he created. Maybe at that point he thought he could win without sacrificing himself—it's up to interpretation.

But during the fight with Buu, it becomes clear to him that he can't win without making the ultimate sacrifice. That's Vegeta, in real time, trying to remedy a problem he created. Seeing him come to grips with his actions and deciding he has to make amends for them is a moment that still hits me emotionally (and I'll admit to crying during this scene the first couple times I saw it as a kid watching it on tv; hell it still kinda chokes me up). That moment is so fucking strong I feel emotions just thinking back to it.

Really, the only difference then and now is there aren't characters on the sidelines narrating all this to the reader just in case they aren't understanding what's going on lol. But yeah, I think everything happening now has been displayed in the Buu arc in a succinct but effective manner. This is really Toyotaro just dragging it out and explaining things everyone should know and understand, but a lot of people don't for some reason.

[Kinokima]

I see it more as a combination of expanding and expounding. It's why I've been using the word "extension" so often - this is taking a pre-established aspect of Vegeta's character and extending it to an entirely new kind of situation. We've seen Vegeta show remorse and attempt to fix his mistakes retrospectively, but we've never seen him in circumstances where he's directly forced to confront (and protect) a group of people representing those mistakes in real time.

I actually disagree here.

We already got a scene of Vegeta facing down his mistake in real time. Majin Buu. He, at the time, put Buu on the backburner because measuring himself against Goku was the most important thing to him. The fight ends when he realizes that Buu is way stronger than he predicted, and then he takes Goku out to try to fix the mess he created. Maybe at that point he thought he could win without sacrificing himself—it's up to interpretation.

But during the fight with Buu, it becomes clear to him that he can't win without making the ultimate sacrifice. That's Vegeta, in real time, trying to remedy a problem he created. Seeing him come to grips with his actions and deciding he has to make amends for them is a moment that still hits me emotionally (and I'll admit to crying during this scene the first couple times I saw it as a kid watching it on tv; hell it still kinda chokes me up). That moment is so fucking strong I feel emotions just thinking back to it.

Really, the only difference then and now is there aren't characters on the sidelines narrating all this to the reader just in case they aren't understanding what's going on lol. But yeah, I think everything happening now has been displayed in the Buu arc in a succinct but effective manner. This is really Toyotaro just dragging it out and explaining things everyone should know and understand, but a lot of people don't for some reason.

I don’t agree that they are the same thing at all

Yes Vegeta was sorry for his part in resurrecting Buu and also killing the people at the stadium. In the Buu arc he is able to help fix the mistakes he made that same day

But here Vegeta is showing regret for the evil things he did in the past that he couldn’t fix because they are from too long ago (perhaps with the Dragon Balls he could fix them but with the exception of the Super Dragon Balls I am not really sure if that is actually true)

I think the whole point is Vegeta is good now but he has done bad things too that can’t just be erased. Those things are part of him too and I don’t think the series ever showed his thoughts on how he feels about his past as a whole. And yes I think these thoughts should have been shown before this but I don’t agree with ppl who say they can never be shown because they weren’t shown before. It’s fine to add depth to a character like this. People seem to mistake that if a character doesn’t mention something on screen then they couldn’t possibly have ever thought of something.

That doesn’t mean I think it’s major new development for Vegeta. But I do feel Vegeta is held to an unfair standard in this regard. Whenever they do anything with Vegeta ppl have to be like this isn’t new development as though all the other characters are going through major development arcs in Super.


And yeah I hated the whole Piccolo exposition. That’s just bad writing. We shouldn’t need a character to tell us what we should feel about another character.

[The Undying]

But during the fight with Buu, it becomes clear to him that he can't win without making the ultimate sacrifice. That's Vegeta, in real time, trying to remedy a problem he created.

I was moreso thinking of "fixing mistakes" specifically in terms of the innocent people Vegeta murdered (a topic addressed in the Boo arc and the current one) but you can certainly frame his fight with Boo as an act of remorse and atonement. That's fair.

However, the difference with the Namekians is that they're an abject moral failure on Vegeta's part, not just some miscalculation. Not only do they represent the worst atrocities of his past, they are, as Kinokima said, not easily fixable. What makes his circumstances so refreshing to me is Vegeta having to experience reminders of his life as a sadistic space pirate, directly interacting with a race of people he wronged, and then actually failing to protect them against an antagonist mirroring those same actions from years ago.

For me, that's an extended, real-time look at how Vegeta approaches the subject of reparations. We got it retrospectively near the end of the Boo arc, but even if you prefer to see it as expounding rather than expanding, it's a helluva lot of expounding.

[Gogeta SSJ Blue]

Do you think we might get Gogeta Blue using the move he used previously on Super Janemba to defeat him sucessfully?

I don't know, they used gogeta in the previous arc (broly arc).
I would like to see something different this time, for example merus/beerus in action, UI goku with something new, vegeta with a new trasformation ecc

I get what you mean!

Let's just wait and see then what will still happen on this arc.

[Zelvin]

But here Vegeta is showing regret for the evil things he did in the past that he couldn’t fix because they are from too long ago (perhaps with the Dragon Balls he could fix them but with the exception of the Super Dragon Balls I am not really sure if that is actually true)

Ok, so when does it stop? When does Vegeta stop flashing back to all the bad things he did and must make up for? Is he gonna flash back and feel bad about the bug people he killed? Or every race and planet he devastated while working for Freeza? Or hell, why not just feel bad for every world Freeza has conquered by virtue of the Saiyans being unable to stop him? Or unwilling to? Is he gonna try and make up for all the lives destroyed by his father, King Vegeta III? Is he going to make up for all those ruined by his grandfather and great-grandfather? Is he just going to stay like this and keep making up for all the sins ever committed by the Saiyan Race as a whole throughout history?

When does it stop? When do we stop reverting Vegeta back to this same point in his character development and have him go through it over and over and over and over and over again?

[Kinokima]

But here Vegeta is showing regret for the evil things he did in the past that he couldn’t fix because they are from too long ago (perhaps with the Dragon Balls he could fix them but with the exception of the Super Dragon Balls I am not really sure if that is actually true)

Ok, so when does it stop? When does Vegeta stop flashing back to all the bad things he did and must make up for? Is he gonna flash back and feel bad about the bug people he killed? Or every race and planet he devastated while working for Freeza? Or hell, why not just feel bad for every world Freeza has conquered by virtue of the Saiyans being unable to stop him? Or unwilling to? Is he gonna try and make up for all the lives destroyed by his father, King Vegeta III? Is he going to make up for all those ruined by his grandfather and great-grandfather? Is he just going to stay like this and keep making up for all the sins ever committed by the Saiyan Race as a whole throughout history?

When does it stop? When do we stop reverting Vegeta back to this same point in his character development and have him go through it over and over and over and over and over again?

Okay your entire post is what is known as major exaggeration to make your point.


It’s literally a few small scenes of Vegeta regretting the evil things he did in his past but this is apparently him reverting back to the same point in his character development. How the hell is he reverting back to anything? Because Vegeta is a good person now he may regret that he did horrible things in the past.

And the bug scene was filler so yeah it would be pretty stupid if he thought of that.

The Namekians as I keep pointing out was a crime the audience experienced on screen/in the manga. The Namekian he hurt are also literally in this arc being hurt again. These thoughts did not materialize from out of nowhere. They aren’t going to go back and make Vegeta think of every single crime he committed. Maybe he does think of them off screen. But that’s not needed to get the point across that Vegeta feels bad for the things he did in his past and doesn’t personally think he can make up for them. But the point is he still wants to fight for the Namekians he hurt in the past because he is good now. Piccolo’s commentary was not needed to get this across.


Vegeta is a good person now and as a good person who did horrible things in the past it’s not unusual for him to feel bad about them. It’s nothing about reverting back to the Buu arc or new development it’s just adding depth to what we already know.


I am not really sure why people continue to make this huge deal over a few small panels. It’s not like this entire arc is Vegeta lamenting his past.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

On the chance they can't defuse Moro from 7-3 due to 7-3 being an android and lacking a real soul, what the hell are the Z fighters supposed to do? Unless Goku's body decides its MUI time at the last minute, I can't see how they're going to damage Moro. The B tier fighters will be committing suicide trying to fight Moro. If Vegeta got knocked unconscious what the hell are the others going to do to Moro? Annoy Moro with attacks that do no damage? It'll be like fighting Perfect Cell when Goku and co are in the Frieza Saga. Completely outmatched.

Outlasting the time limit is their best bet, but even then, Moro's still strong as fuck and doesn't require the need to rest due to having infinite stamina, meaning fighting him is gonna be a massive pain. How they're going to kill Moro is a mystery considering he pretty much decimated Vegeta.

There is a chance Vegeta's separation technique might not work, 7-3 is artificial and Moro may have him completely assimilated. If that is the case and Vegeta can't undo the fusion, fighting Moro will be damn near impossible.

[Zelvin]

Okay your entire post is what is known as major exaggeration to make your point.

It’s literally a few small scenes of Vegeta regretting the evil things he did in his past but this is apparently him reverting back to the same point in his character development. How the hell is he reverting back to anything? Because Vegeta is a good person now he may regret that he did horrible things in the past.

Except Vegeta literally sacrificed himself against Majin Buu to make up for all his past deeds. Not just those on Earth. It is the point that by the end of the Buu Arc that Vegeta has come completely over to the good side. There would be no more regrets for him to have. His future from then on is to protect the Earth and his Family. That's it. There's nothing more important to Vegeta than that (and besting Kakarot). So yes, this is a regression. A reset of his character to go through the same development he's already been through.

And the bug scene was filler so yeah it would be pretty stupid if he thought of that.

You act like the Arlians are the only bug species in the universe. We saw Vegeta and Nappa well before that literally eating the limbs of dead alien inhabitants when they got the signal that Raditz had been killed.

The Namekians as I keep pointing out was a crime the audience experienced on screen/in the manga. The Namekian he hurt are also literally in this arc being hurt again. These thoughts did not materialize from out of nowhere. They aren’t going to go back and make Vegeta think of every single crime he committed. Maybe he does think of them off screen. But that’s not needed to get the point across that Vegeta feels bad for the things he did in his past and doesn’t personally think he can make up for them. But the point is he still wants to fight for the Namekians he hurt in the past because he is good now. Piccolo’s commentary was not needed to get this across.

It wouldn't matter if it was on-screen or not. The point is they can just use this kind of inner turmoil with Vegeta again and again and again. That's not an exaggeration. Vegeta being a better person doesn't mean he's going to regret or be haunted by every bad thing he's ever done. That's not his character.

Vegeta is a good person now and as a good person who did horrible things in the past it’s not unusual for him to feel bad about them. It’s nothing about reverting back to the Buu arc or new development it’s just adding depth to what we already know.

Is Vegeta going to feel bad for Yamcha being killed by a Saibamen? No. Is Vegeta going to feel bad for Chouzu and Tenshinhan who died fighting Nappa and apologize for that? No. Does he feel bad for the City Nappa nuked and the Earthling armies that were destroyed? Nope. You'd think if Vegeta were going to make up for past misdeeds, he'd start with the ones that more directly affected the world he now calls Home.

I am not really sure why people continue to make this huge deal over a few small panels. It’s not like this entire arc is Vegeta lamenting his past.

The issue is that Super, as a whole, has been one giant character reset. Gohan was the most egregious case of this.

[Miracles]

Yes Vegeta was sorry for his part in resurrecting Buu and also killing the people at the stadium. In the Buu arc he is able to help fix the mistakes he made that same day

But here Vegeta is showing regret for the evil things he did in the past that he couldn’t fix because they are from too long ago (perhaps with the Dragon Balls he could fix them but with the exception of the Super Dragon Balls I am not really sure if that is actually true)

Bingo. Piccolo stated Vegeta is trying to atone for "past sins." This will wipe the "slate clean" for Vegeta.

Bringing up what Vegeta made amends for in Buu's arc is irrelevant to this current situation. This is for Namek.
Vegeta just isn't fighting selfishly for the earth. Vegeta made a complete change from his journey which began in Buu saga.

[Kinokima]

Except Vegeta literally sacrificed himself against Majin Buu to make up for all his past deeds. Not just those on Earth. It is the point that by the end of the Buu Arc that Vegeta has come completely over to the good side. There would be no more regrets for him to have. His future from then on is to protect the Earth and his Family. That's it. There's nothing more important to Vegeta than that (and besting Kakarot). So yes, this is a regression. A reset of his character to go through the same development he's already been through.

Ah yes there it is the favorite over used word of the Dragon Ball fandom “Regression”


I think you need to rewatch the Buu saga again. Maybe you ignored the fact that Vegeta literally was the one responsible for helping to ressurect Buu by becoming Majin Vegeta and demanding a fight against Goku

Vegeta sacrificing himself against Buu might have been an atonement for that and it was when he finally decided to do the right thing and also show his love for his family but no it doesn’t make up for every single evil thing he did in the past. No one is arguing that Vegeta isn’t good now. It is just Vegeta is still burdened as a good person by the many evil things he has done.

You act like the Arlians are the only bug species in the universe. We saw Vegeta and Nappa well before that literally eating the limbs of dead alien inhabitants when they got the signal that Raditz had been killed.

So one image tells us literally nothing about these random aliens. That’s not the same thing as knowing Vegeta literally massacred a peaceful village of Namekians because he wanted the Dragon Balls

It wouldn't matter if it was on-screen or not. The point is they can just use this kind of inner turmoil with Vegeta again and again and again. That's not an exaggeration. Vegeta being a better person doesn't mean he's going to regret or be haunted by every bad thing he's ever done. That's not his character.

It does matter that it is on screen. This is probably the most evil thing Vegeta has done that the audience also experienced.

The rest of Vegeta’s Crimes may have been just as evil but they happened off screen.

I am not really sure why you say they will bring it up over and over again when this is literally the first time
to the point that people are saying Vegeta can’t think of his past crimes since it was never shown he did before.

And the only reason it’s being brought up now is because he is coming face to face with someone he hurt being hurt again. It’s not just some random thoughts about his past that sprang up from nowhere.

Is Vegeta going to feel bad for Yamcha being killed by a Saibamen? No. Is Vegeta going to feel bad for Chouzu and Tenshinhan who died fighting Nappa and apologize for that? No. Does he feel bad for the City Nappa nuked and the Earthling armies that were destroyed? Nope. You'd think if Vegeta were going to make up for past misdeeds, he'd start with the ones that more directly affected the world he now calls Home.

All these characters you mentioned were wished back. The Namekians Vegeta killed were not brought back (on screen at least). In fact that was the whole point that Vegeta mocked that they didn’t come back because of way the wish was worded. The wish only brought back those Freeza killed but Vegeta had killed them.

Also Vegeta technically didn’t massacre Yamcha, Tien, and Chiaotzu. That was in the middle of the battle where characters were fighting back. While I am not saying what he did wasn’t wrong there too massacring an innocent village of elders and children is just on a whole other level.

[Zelvin]

Yes Vegeta was sorry for his part in resurrecting Buu and also killing the people at the stadium. In the Buu arc he is able to help fix the mistakes he made that same day

But here Vegeta is showing regret for the evil things he did in the past that he couldn’t fix because they are from too long ago (perhaps with the Dragon Balls he could fix them but with the exception of the Super Dragon Balls I am not really sure if that is actually true)

Bingo. Piccolo stated Vegeta is trying to atone for "past sins." This will wipe the "slate clean" for Vegeta.

Bringing up what Vegeta made amends for in Buu's arc is irrelevant to this current situation. This is for Namek.
Vegeta just isn't fighting selfishly for the earth. Vegeta made a complete change from his journey which began in Buu saga.

Vegeta's change didn't begin in Buu Saga. It began in the Namek Saga and slowly built up through the Android and Cell Saga, finally culminating in the Buu Saga. Why should this "wipe the slate clean" when his sacrifice against Buu was to the same effect? If it's just to "wipe it clean" for the Namekian's, then my point still stands as there are countless worlds ruined by Vegeta. Why should THIS event be the one that wipes him clean forever? It's not like the Namekians were the ONLY ones he ever hurt. So why should this fight against Moro clear the slate and not his actual, visceral, emotional sacrifice against Buu?

Once again, it's just resetting his character and making all his past development meaningless. And there's no reason they won't do this to him again.

Ah yes there it is the favorite over used word of the Dragon Ball fandom “Regression”

Because it is a regression.

I think you need to rewatch the Buu saga again. Maybe you ignored the fact that Vegeta literally was the one responsible for helping to ressurect Buu by becoming Majin Vegeta and demanding a fight against Goku

We know that. We know Vegeta let his arrogance and irritation get the best of him. How he LET Babidi place him under control for a power boost because of what he saw from Goku against Yakkon. In Vegeta's mind, this would be the ONLY time he'd ever get the chance to fight Goku again since, ya know, Goku was dead, he couldn't come back from the Earth DB's again, and there wasn't (at the time) any way for Goku to come back. So that moment was the only time Vegeta had to settle the score. This was to be Vegeta's last chance to settle the score.

Vegeta sacrificing himself against Buu might have been an atonement for that and it was when he finally decided to do the right thing and also show his love for his family but no it doesn’t make up for every single evil thing he did in the past. No one is arguing that Vegeta isn’t good now. It is just Vegeta is still burdened as a good person by the many evil things he has done.

Why wouldn't it make up for every single thing he did? He died. He was going to Hell. The likelihood of him getting revived was practically nil. This was his ultimate sacrifice. His penance. Yes, he does get revived, but it wasn't expected by him. In his mind, Vegeta was going to be separated from his Wife and Son Forever.

So one image tells us literally nothing about these random aliens. That’s not the same thing as knowing Vegeta literally massacred a peaceful village of Namekians because he wanted the Dragon Balls

So every terrible thing Vegeta has ever done must also be personal to the audience? Even though we are aware of all the horrific things he's done during his time serving Freeza? So by your reasoning, nothing else Vegeta has done throughout his life; none of the planets, not the countless thousands, perhaps billions, of innocent people whose lives he cut short just because Freeza ordered it, or because he just liked squashing the weak, shouldn't be addressed and Vegeta shouldn't feel bad about it because the audience didn't see him kick a baby onscreen?

It does matter that it is on screen. This is probably the most evil thing Vegeta has done that the audience also experienced.

The rest of Vegeta’s Crimes may have been just as evil but they happened off screen.

This is what flashbacks are for.

I am not really sure why you say they will bring it up over and over again when this is literally the first time
to the point that people are saying Vegeta can’t think of his past crimes since it was never shown he did before.

Vegeta never gave two shits about the Namekians throughout the years, not even after his reform in the Buu Arc, not even after learning of the Super DB's that could undo everything. Not one moment that we've seen has been dedicated to considering what he did to Namek as being wrong and that he needed to make up for it. Not one bit until just this manga arc where it's forced on him.
And the only reason it’s being brought up now is because he is coming face to face with someone he hurt being hurt again. It’s not just some random thoughts about his past that sprang up from nowhere.

All these characters you mentioned were wished back.

Doesn't change the fact they were killed due to Vegeta's actions and suffered for it. Especially Yamcha.

The Namekians Vegeta killed were not brought back (on screen at least).

And Vegeta did not one one flying Puar about them until Toyotaro forced it for his narrative, which did not line with Vegeta's character.

In fact that was the whole point that Vegeta mocked that they didn’t come back be the way the wish was worded only brought back those Freeza killed but Vegeta killed them.

And Vegeta mocks everyone. And still does. It's part of his character. He didn't care then and he shouldn't care now. Just because he's good now, doesn't mean he isn't still a prideful jackass.

Also Vegeta technically didn’t massacre Yamcha, Tien, and Chiaotzu. That was in the middle of the battle where characters were fighting back. While I am not saying what he did wasn’t wrong there too massacring an innocent village of elders and children is just on a whole other level.

And the Namekians fought back. Vegeta wanted dragon ball. They didn't want to give up dragon ball. So he took dragon ball. You'd think the one to give Vegeta the most grief about what he did would be Piccolo. Yet that hatchet has been buried for years. Hell, Piccolo even lets him take his spot back in the U6 Tournament just so Vegeta can get some form of closure for himself by decking Frost.

[Miracles]

Yes Vegeta was sorry for his part in resurrecting Buu and also killing the people at the stadium. In the Buu arc he is able to help fix the mistakes he made that same day

But here Vegeta is showing regret for the evil things he did in the past that he couldn’t fix because they are from too long ago (perhaps with the Dragon Balls he could fix them but with the exception of the Super Dragon Balls I am not really sure if that is actually true)

Bingo. Piccolo stated Vegeta is trying to atone for "past sins." This will wipe the "slate clean" for Vegeta.

Bringing up what Vegeta made amends for in Buu's arc is irrelevant to this current situation. This is for Namek.
Vegeta just isn't fighting selfishly for the earth. Vegeta made a complete change from his journey which began in Buu saga.

Vegeta's change didn't begin in Buu Saga. It began in the Namek Saga and slowly built up through the Android and Cell Saga, finally culminating in the Buu Saga. Why should this "wipe the slate clean" when his sacrifice against Buu was to the same effect? If it's just to "wipe it clean" for the Namekian's, then my point still stands as there are countless worlds ruined by Vegeta. Why should THIS event be the one that wipes him clean forever? It's not like the Namekians were the ONLY ones he ever hurt. So why should this fight against Moro clear the slate and not his actual, visceral, emotional sacrifice against Buu?

Once again, it's just resetting his character and making all his past development meaningless. And there's no reason they won't do this to him again.

Vegeta sacrificed himself selfishly for those he loved [Trunks, Bulma]. Even against Kidd Buu, he made earth take responsibility for Goku, saving it time and time again. Against Moro, Vegeta himself atoned for Namek and the entire universe. Which accounts for his cosmos tyranny. Along, with Condemning himself and his actions, which was built off of the repentance he showed earlier in the arc to the Namekians.

This shows Vegeta made a complete turnaround. He was straight garbage in Namek, Android, Cell and even all of Buu. He fought for his pride and surpassing Kakarot. Until he admits all of this in the end of Buu. This is where his journey begins towards the path. Buu is nothing more than a build up to this point. What Vegeta did back then was a start, this current act just completes him.

[Kinokima]

So every terrible thing Vegeta has ever done must also be personal to the audience? Even though we are aware of all the horrific things he's done during his time serving Freeza? So by your reasoning, nothing else Vegeta has done throughout his life; none of the planets, not the countless thousands, perhaps billions, of innocent people whose lives he cut short just because Freeza ordered it, or because he just liked squashing the weak, shouldn't be addressed and Vegeta shouldn't feel bad about it because the audience didn't see him kick a baby onscreen?

Now you are just contradicting yourself first you complain that they will bring up every single evil thing Vegeta did and then you complain that they don’t.

We don’t need Vegeta to lament in the actual manga about every single crime he committed to show he still regrets his past. It’s just easy to use a crime the audience already knows and can connect to then doing some random flash back

Vegeta never gave two shits about the Namekians throughout the years, not even after his reform in the Buu Arc, not even after learning of the Super DB's that could undo everything. Not one moment that we've seen has been dedicated to considering what he did to Namek as being wrong and that he needed to make

And Vegeta did not one one flying Puar about them until Toyotaro forced it for his narrative, which did not line with Vegeta's character.

Vegeta is thinking and caring about the Namekians NOW because they were literally in trouble this arc. Not really sure why that is so hard to understand. He doesn’t want any more harm to come to them again. He doesn’t need to think about them in past arcs when it’s not relevant to those arcs.

Also people keep confusing what Vegeta feels about himself (deserving hell) and what everyone else thinks of him. Maybe you think Vegeta sacrificing himself in the Majin Buu arc is enough to atone for his sins but he doesn’t think that. He also literally said this arc he also doesn’t think what he is doing now will atone for his past either because he still believes he deserves hell. These are Vegeta’s feelings no one else is judging Vegeta or saying that he needs to atone but Vegeta himself. Again it’s because Vegeta is good now he judges himself like this. The story is not trying to say Vegeta is not a good enough guy yet.

[Ziegander]

But seriously, no one else thinks it's the height of stupidity for Moro to even get a power boost like this from 7-3? I'm the only one that has a problem with him becoming so much stronger just from eating an android that's maybe ssj3 tier?

He claims to have reclaimed the height of his power, that he had stored a copy of that power level, a power level stronger than he was when he was going toe to toe with Omen UI Goku a minute ago, and beat him. When did he store that kind of power in 7-3?

And he gets this strong and just SLAPS Vegeta into unconsciousness. Everyone's arguing about Vegeta's character or Moro's appearance, really no one has a problem with the logistics of Moro's absurd power leap? When I read it, it felt like insultingly bad writing.

Moro stored his former power in 7-3 [The one that beat UI omen Goku]. On top of that, he took 7-3's battle power, which naturally would make his ki higher than what it was against UI Omen Goku. Vegeta wasn't able to even contend with the former Moro, it's no surprise that a stronger Moro would tuck Vegeta in.

Yeah, I'm really not seeing that?

Vegeta got knocked around some by literally THAT Moro that you're saying he backed up into 7-3, but he was fine??? He power drained THAT Moro and dunked on him. He was holding his own against a UI Omen+ level opponent and then you're saying add ssj3, maybe, level of power on top of that, at the levels he and Goku are fighting at now, and somehow that's enough for him to get one-shot?

To me... I'm sorry, I don't buy that.