"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by YuseiFudou » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:37 pm

Vegeta gets his ass handed to him, gets his abilities copied rendering the hyped up abilty to be useless.
Moro using everyone's abilities makes him seem more like a new Cell.

And of course it has to be Merus who shows up as the last hope. Does he exist simply to be punished/erased in the end after saving everyone's butts?
What was the point of Goku's training with him and Vegeta learning his new ability at this point?
Where is Beerus? If anything HE should be the one coming down there to intervene.
The only thing I liked from this chapter was the amount of gore that was shown, was surprised to see it.
Absolute shambles.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:38 pm

There's really no salvaging this arc. Moro's personality is non-existent, I don't give a damn what he does to Gokuu and friends. Just end the arc and move on already, for the love of goodness.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The Undying » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:41 pm

This is by far the worst characterization for Moro in the entire arc.

We went from a conniving, deceitful villain who frequently planned for contingencies, operated with manipulative tactics that could influence even his enemies, and forced the characters to think outside the box to... a generic Cell clone without any of the qualities that made Cell a compelling antagonist.

We're supposed to believe there's some sense of hopelessness here, but it feels so shallow. None of the characters are doing anything interesting, the teamwork panels are pointless, and we're just seeing Not-Cell flex his muscles for over 40 pages.

The only good things about this chapter were the art and Merus showing up at the end.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:46 pm

Moro had a personality? Honestly I just saw Moro as a psychopath who does things cause he feels like it. Now Perfect Ce-Moro I mean is now going to whip everyone.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:49 pm

This chapter in a nutshell: "Oh no, we're 5% more fucked than we were last month!"

Since, unfortunately, I was the last post on the previous page, here's a repost:
TKA wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:37 pm
I get it. The point is this is supposed to be bleak and their darkest hour. I get it already. But how much longer is this going to keep going? It's been this way for months. For months we've seen that Moro is stronger than everyone and is toying with them, and that everyone is out of their depth with him. Okay. I get it.

This is way too similar to Frieza on Namek. It's the same structure. Overwhelming villain, some hope spots with new heroes joining the battle, only to lose when the villain goes "Haha, I was just holding back."

It's tired. It could've been salvaged if Moro was even the least bit interesting as a character, but he's just there smirking and showing off how strong and invincible he is. He's just Perfect Cell, but without all the cool build up around him, or a foil in Gohan. He's nothing.

This is all nothing. I don't love it, I don't hate it; I'm completely ambivalent/apathetic. That's the worst reaction you could get as a storyteller. Ugh.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:50 pm

YuseiFudou wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:37 pm
Vegeta gets his ass handed to him, gets his abilities copied rendering the hyped up abilty to be useless.
Moro using everyone's abilities makes him seem more like a new Cell.

And of course it has to be Merus who shows up as the last hope. Does he exist simply to be punished/erased in the end after saving everyone's butts?
What was the point of Goku's training with him and Vegeta learning his new ability at this point?
Where is Beerus? If anything HE should be the one coming down there to intervene.
The only thing I liked from this chapter was the amount of gore that was shown, was surprised to see it.
Absolute shambles.

Yeah honestly, this is just another Z fighters are fucked despite working their asses off again, this has happened before. Most villians do this when they get powered up, rendering their efforts useless.

Beerus is probably on Earth, just eating somewhere in the meantime. Beerus better get involved at some point, because it would be downright stupid for him not to. Moro has eaten most of the planets in universe 7, Moro will eat the Earth at this rate, Beerus better get off his ass at some point because there's no reason for Beerus to do nothing, especially when its' heavily implied that he's on Earth at this point. Beerus has yet to do anything of substance lately, the most he's done is erase Zamasu after uncovering his plans to kickstart Plan Zero Mortal in the present timeline.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by YuseiFudou » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:52 pm

Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:46 pm
Moro had a personality? Honestly I just saw Moro as a psychopath who does things cause he feels like it. Now Perfect Ce-Moro I mean is now going to whip everyone.
Only that this time there's no angry Gohan to save the day :lol:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:52 pm

This arc can be saved...

Buu

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Last edited by Grand Marshal 1 on Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Galan007 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:53 pm

What if Whis and Merus orchestrated this so that Moro could absorb Merus' power?

Moro copies Merus' power, which would technically give him an Angel's powerset(and the rules to go along with it.) So once Moro uses his newfound Angel power, he is in violation of the Angel code, and Daishinkan has him erased. :think:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:54 pm

Galan007 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:53 pm
What if Whis and Merus orchestrated this so that Moro could absorb Merus' power?

Moro copies Merus' power, which would technically give him an Angel's powerset(and the rules to go along with it.) So once Moro uses his newfound Angel power, he is in violation of the Angel code, and Daishinkan has him erased. :think:
Good and all, but Daishikan doesn't want his children to be erased ig. An trainee angel is need for some reason. Has the series provided us with an insight as to how rare it is for Angels to be born, or can they be spammed to existence?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:55 pm

Galan007 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:53 pm
What if Whis and Merus orchestrated this so that Moro could absorb Merus' power?

Moro copies Merus' power, which would technically give him an Angel's powerset(and the rules to go along with it.) So once Moro uses his newfound Angel power, he is in violation of the Angel code, and Daishinkan has him erased. :think:
Okay, but what does being saved because they couldn't do it themselves teach any of the cast? What's the point of this when the arc devoted so much time to Goku and Vegeta's individual growths? Wouldn't this undercut all that and render the entire arc pointless because this was always an option?

More importantly, what does that say to the viewer? Don't be invested in anything going on because outside forces can show up and end it all in an instant?
Last edited by TKA on Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:55 pm

Galan007 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:53 pm
What if Whis and Merus orchestrated this so that Moro could absorb Merus' power?

Moro copies Merus' power, which would technically give him an Angel's powerset(and the rules to go along with it.) So once Moro uses his newfound Angel power, he is in violation of the Angel code, and Daishinkan has him erased. :think:
There's just one teeny tiny problem with that.... Moro isn't an angel, he can't be erased for that. Moro has done a lot of shit to warrant erasure, but this isn't one of them. Even if he grabbed Merus on the neck, why would it count? Moro is not an angel, he isn't bound by their laws and shouldn't because he's just a goat person with planet sucking abilities.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Galan007 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:58 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:54 pm
Galan007 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:53 pm
What if Whis and Merus orchestrated this so that Moro could absorb Merus' power?

Moro copies Merus' power, which would technically give him an Angel's powerset(and the rules to go along with it.) So once Moro uses his newfound Angel power, he is in violation of the Angel code, and Daishinkan has him erased. :think:
Good and all, but Daishikan doesn't want his children to be erased ig. An trainee angel is need for some reason. Has the series provided us with an insight as to how rare it is for Angels to be born, or can they be spammed to existence?
You misunderstand. Moro is the only one who would be destroyed in this scenario.

Merus shows up and stalls Moro, but Merus never uses his full power(so he's not in violation of the code.) Moro manages to get ahold of Merus(perhaps because Merus allows it), and copies his Angelic power. Moro then activates the full extent of his newfound Angel power, which violates the code and prompts Daishinkan to destroy him.

tl;dr
Moro is killed; Merus lives.

Just a wild thought.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kagari » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:58 pm

TKA wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:55 pm
Galan007 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:53 pm
What if Whis and Merus orchestrated this so that Moro could absorb Merus' power?

Moro copies Merus' power, which would technically give him an Angel's powerset(and the rules to go along with it.) So once Moro uses his newfound Angel power, he is in violation of the Angel code, and Daishinkan has him erased. :think:
Okay, but what does being saved because they couldn't do it themselves teach any of the cast? What's the point of this when the arc devoted so much time to Goku and Vegeta's individual growths? Wouldn't this undercut all that and render the entire arc pointless because this was always an option?

More importantly, what does that say to the viewer? Don't be invested in anything going on because outside forces can show up and end it all in an instant?
So, exactly what happened in the Boo arc with Gohan, Goten and Trunks.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:03 pm

I wouldn’t say I dislike this chapter. It was good to see how Goku, Gohan and Piccolo executed that combo. It was only convenient that Moro has the most useful abilities out of the cast right now. I personally liked how Gohan used the galactic donuts, a technique that originally debuted with Gotenks, I felt nostalgia from Boo Arc. I’m not just not liking how Moro has so many counters, making them always dependent on divine intervention.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:08 pm

Kagari wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:58 pm
So, exactly what happened in the Boo arc with Gohan, Goten and Trunks.
No. The Buu Arc balanced an entire cast of characters, made all of those characters have substantial growth and then concluded the series with the wrap-up of the character arc of "Z"'s most compelling character in Vegeta.

World's apart from characters just flying to the battlefield, getting a "moment" and then getting beaten up and tossed aside. Think about this stuff more critically.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:20 pm

Yeah Perfect Voro has lost me. It's getting so damn ridiculous how he's got an answer for pretty much everything. Like he literally sounds like if Eric Cartman was describing his own OC. "And like...and like he's super powerful and copy everyones power permanently cause he the best...and like...like he beats up everyone and like....like...he's so smart he stops the other guys from being healed and like...is gonna have a power of infinity plus infinity.."

But to be serious my real point is it feels like Moro has no plot limit we the audience can understand. It feels like he can pull literally anything out of his ass to counter anything. Like he'll have an anti-angel magic spell to make Merus useless or a Hakai Hakai that Hakai's the Hakai so Beerus couldn't do a thing. How am I supposed to get invested here when I feel he can pull literally any random bullshit he feels like out his ass whenever it suits the writer. It really is like a kid on a playground just saying obnoxiously he has all the powers and counters all the other kids stuff. It feels like a parody. I have no reason to believe Moro can't just do whatever random bullshit he wants.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:24 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:20 pm
Yeah Perfect Voro has lost me. It's getting so damn ridiculous how he's got an answer for pretty much everything. Like he literally sounds like if Eric Cartman was describing his own OC. "And like...and like he's super powerful and copy everyones power permanently cause he the best...and like...like he beats up everyone and like....like...he's so smart he stops the other guys from being healed and like...is gonna have a power of infinity plus infinity.."

But to be serious my real point is it feels like Moro has no plot limit we the audience can understand. It feels like he can pull literally anything out of his ass to counter anything. Like he'll have an anti-angel magic spell to make Merus useless or a Hakai Hakai that Hakai's the Hakai so Beerus couldn't do a thing. How am I supposed to get invested here when I feel he can pull literally any random bullshit he feels like out his ass whenever it suits the writer. It really is like a kid on a playground just saying obnoxiously he has all the powers and counters all the other kids stuff. It feels like a parody. I have no reason to believe Moro can't just do whatever random bullshit he wants.
Moro has to have a weakness....its just that I fear whenever they reveal one Moro has a counter to it and we're back at square one again. Moro might as well say."I have won. I'm stronger than all of you. Fear my power!" And absorb all the fighters energy at this rate. What's stopping him other than Merus, who can't do much to him with a gun? I swear if Moro somehow finds some bs hack around Beerus's hakai if he decides to show up I'll be rolling my eyes. Moro has to have some kind of weakness, else everyone's fucked.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by jplaya2023 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:29 pm

yeah this arc needs to end. Beerus needs to get his lazy ass off his planet and kill this threat.

Looks like meerus is going to get erassed after he beats moro. Vegeta gets a new power and nothing

what happened to UI. it was godly in the anime, and it sucks in the manga. Moro shouldn't be able to compete with UI but whatever. Goku should still have that zeno button right

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:30 pm

I loved this chapter. The art was incredibly good this time around, for real. I am super happy with Toyotaro’s progress as an artist, and I especially loved everything about the teamwork of Goku, Gohan and Piccolo.
Not only was the art exceptional in those pages, but their tactic was genius and most importantly Goku appearing there was genuinely unexpected.
As was Moro literally tearing an hole in his chest.
Holy fucking shit, this may be among my top moments in Super. I missed such brutal scenes in Dragon Ball, and am glad that Toyotaro is not holding back with the blood and everything else the anime won’t show due to censorship. It definitely gives the manga its own identity and makes it feel more connected to Toriyama’s work.

The pacing is what it is, and it’s useless to complain about it every month (last month was paced well, though) but at least this time around I don’t feel like Toyotaro wasted my time. Everything was interesting to read, and the climax is shaping up to be quite good.
I am especially interested in seeing what happens with Krillin and Dende.

Maybe Dende will be killed and when all the hope will be lost Krillin will appear and save everyone’s asses with the beans?
What will Merus do? Will he actually sacrifice himself, or will he only stall for time? And will his bias for mortals still cause him some consequence?
And what will Goku and Vegeta do once they recover? Will Goku use the mastered UI? Will Vegeta be the one to deliver the final blow?

This is very interesting.
TKA wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:55 pm
Okay, but what does being saved because they couldn't do it themselves teach any of the cast? What's the point of this when the arc devoted so much time to Goku and Vegeta's individual growths? Wouldn't this undercut all that and render the entire arc pointless because this was always an option?

More importantly, what does that say to the viewer? Don't be invested in anything going on because outside forces can show up and end it all in an instant?
I think you might be jumping to conclusions a bit too early, aren’t you?

Both Dende and Krillin are joining the battlefield. Goku and Vegeta will most likely recover and be both instrumental in the final act.
I don’t think Merus will be the one to kill Moro for good, but his help will be very important nonetheless.
This is his arc as much as it is Goku’s and Vegeta’s.
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