"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Femme Fatale Kikaza
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:32 pm

How long until Perfect Moro wrecks everyone again? Because I don't see how the Z fighters are doing shit to him. Moro probably has some counter hidden up his sleeve anyway, they'll write that in to make sure of that. Like with Zamasu, when you think you've killed him the fucker spawns endless clones of himself/becomes the multiverse. Moro is probably going to have some final phase of 'Ultimate Fuck You To the Z Fighters And Their Efforts' before he's killed.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Gt91 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:36 pm

emperior wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:30 pm
I loved this chapter. The art was incredibly good this time around, for real. I am super happy with Toyotaro’s progress as an artist, and I especially loved everything about the teamwork of Goku, Gohan and Piccolo.
Not only was the art exceptional in those pages, but their tactic was genius and most importantly Goku appearing there was genuinely unexpected.
As was Moro literally tearing an hole in his chest.
Holy fucking shit, this may be among my top moments in Super. I missed such brutal scenes in Dragon Ball, and am glad that Toyotaro is not holding back with the blood and everything else the anime won’t show due to censorship. It definitely gives the manga its own identity and makes it feel more connected to Toriyama’s work.

The pacing is what it is, and it’s useless to complain about it every month (last month was paced well, though) but at least this time around I don’t feel like Toyotaro wasted my time. Everything was interesting to read, and the climax is shaping up to be quite good.
I am especially interested in seeing what happens with Krillin and Dende.

Maybe Dende will be killed and when all the hope will be lost Krillin will appear and save everyone’s asses with the beans?
What will Merus do? Will he actually sacrifice himself, or will he only stall for time? And will his bias for mortals still cause him some consequence?
And what will Goku and Vegeta do once they recover? Will Goku use the mastered UI? Will Vegeta be the one to deliver the final blow?

This is very interesting.
Totally agree.
This desperate situation , brutal scenes ecc, is something that i was looking for too.
I think we'll have UI vs moro somehow. Krillin has several beens and can help goku and piccolo, while dende can heal the others.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:37 pm

If Buu managed to absorb Moro, you think his existence would split within Buu the same way Vegito was? (even if Super added more to the Potara fusion, it never contradicted Z).

If so, then perhaps Buu absorbing Moro, splitting him into 7-3 and his Elder state, with the Daikaioshin part of Buu sacrificing all his power to kill him (Moro and Daikaioshin die), could be a good plot. 7-3 surviving and being given to Merus. No laws broken. Buu is a member of the team. It doesn't have to be Goku or Vegeta that need to win.

Plus, a cool way to change his appearance like in the anime, with Fit Buu.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:40 pm

General Review:

I mostly enjoyed this chapter. Props to Toyotarou for the art this chapter, its the best its ever been. Moro’s Cell Face doesnt Bother Me as much as it had before. In the last chapter he looked exactly like Cell in the face, but this chapter given we get more time with this form I see he still has Moro’s Mannerisms and his general facial expressions are the same just without the snout.

I think there is a good reason as for why Vegeta got the lesser of the beatings in this Chapter. There might be more for him later on. I’m glad to see that a lot of the early translations we got were horribly botched. Gohan Explaining Moro’s Ability to Goku flows very nicely. I don’t know where they pulled that line about “If we both use violence to achieve our goals aren’t we committing the same crime” line came from. There is a lack of stupid lines this chapter that I like.

I’ve seen a lot of confusion about Moro and his Time Limits. I feel it could have been explained better, but from what I got from it, all the abilities 7-3 had copied before he ate him are his forever. So His own abilities, Gohans abilities, and Piccolos. Speaking of Piccolos Abilities, I have Zero Issue with Moro having Piccolos Regeneration. He can’t do stuff like Cell so its really just limit to Limbs. Thats not an issue.

What Might Become an issue is Zenkai Boosts which he would have Gotten from Gohan. I hope that doesn’t come into play at any point because this should be Moro at his Strongest.

I much enjoyed Moro’s Joke about the Big Bang Attack. Piccolo being the one to realize that Fusion is out of the question is good. The Fight with Gohan and Piccolo was enjoyable with some neat tag team action. Nothing we haven’t seen before. Goku Blowing Moro’s Arm off was cool. Although I have the thought in the back of my head that had he managed to blow his head off he’d be dead.

The Moment Moro Regenerated through Goku is the chapter goes from Ok to good.The Art takes a massive jump and he definitely deserves all the praise he can for this honestly. We Criticize him for bad art so it’s only fair to give him props when he outdoes himself . It is Odd that Piccolo Thinks that blowing himself up will take care of Moro but still, Moro doesn’t give him the chance anyway so it doesn’t really matter.


Merus Coming in is a good cliffhanger for the chapter. I enjoy this far more than if it was Beerus. I still don’t want Beerus to come get involved. It’d be a rehash of the end of the Future Trunks Arc. And also the fact that Moro knows that Merus isn’t just galactic patrol is interesting. Does he know he’s an angel or is he like “That Blast was too strong for a Mere Galactic Patrol Member”. Who knows.

Overall I enjoyed this chapter. I went back and reread the arc up until now and I have enjoyed it for the most part. There are things they could have done better here and there but its mostly possitive for me so far. I’m excited to see what they have in store next.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:44 pm

DiscountDabi wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:40 pm
What Might Become an issue is Zenkai Boosts which he would have Gotten from Gohan. I hope that doesn’t come into play at any point because this should be Moro at his Strongest.
This makes me think that he talked about how Gohan got stronger via rage when he saw his father decimated. Which could possibly foreshadow him getting desperate later, full of rage and growing in power via Vegeta and Gohan.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:57 pm

Merus opened the barrier, not Whis

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:05 pm

Ok, I’m just gonna add this on here. I don’t like how Toyotarou has kinda Nerfed Moro’s Absorption. This isn’t anything that is new in this chapter, but it is annoying that Toyotarou couldn’t figure out how to get around his Absorption so he just made it weaker. Thats a big problem for me.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:07 pm

DiscountDabi wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:05 pm
Ok, I’m just gonna add this on here. I don’t like how Toyotarou has kinda Nerfed Moro’s Absorption. This isn’t anything that is new in this chapter, but it is annoying that Toyotarou couldn’t figure out how to get around his Absorption so he just made it weaker. Thats a big problem for me.
When did he make it weaker? Where?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:08 pm

No problems with Moro73's design at this point.

I like how the onomatopoeia for Goku's impalement was drawn. Have we seen that sort of font before? Pretty brutal, but Goku's not dead, so whatever.

Loved Jaco acting all cool talking about duty but then panicking when Piccolo actually attempts to blow everything up.

Happy to see Dende take initiative.

It's Merus time!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by nato25 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:09 pm

Came here to a lot more negative response than I thought would happen. Yes there is definitely the fact the plot didn't advance much outside of Merus revealing himself (who is a character with his own dilemma, will he foresake his angel hood for the sake of Earth!?). But the sense of hopelessness is building in this chapter which I think is a lot of fun.

It's also cool that he is getting rid of some of the series biggest tropes and questions. Everyone's always like, 'ohh well they will just fuse and game over'. Senzu are gone, Fusion is gone, healing from Dende gone (well was gone seems to be back in play, but there is a lot more risk there at least, and the Dragon Balls could even be gone if he dies). I thought people would be excited to see a situation where those fall backs are eliminated.

People say Moro has no personality and fair enough he isn't super developed in depth, but there is some uniqueness there. Shows cleverness using telepathy. Keeping everyone alive as a meal. Mocking Vegeta's Big Bang Attack. There's definitely elements of a personality there.\

I'm hyped anyway, on the edge of my seat with every chapter, can't wait to see what happens next!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:31 pm

Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:07 pm
DiscountDabi wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:05 pm
Ok, I’m just gonna add this on here. I don’t like how Toyotarou has kinda Nerfed Moro’s Absorption. This isn’t anything that is new in this chapter, but it is annoying that Toyotarou couldn’t figure out how to get around his Absorption so he just made it weaker. Thats a big problem for me.
When did he make it weaker? Where?
Well lets go through all the abilities Moro showed of on Namek and see what happened to them.

The first one we saw was his manipulation of planet energy. Him using the energy of the planets was far more dynamic and interesting than just average Ki blasts, and he hardly uses it now.

He also had the power to absorb the energy of people around him without them noticing. Now thats gone and now his absorption is something that can simply be dodged if you are fast enough.

This one is just stylistic, but he used to have a very wicked looking aura. Fitting for someone who uses magic instead of just brute strength. Now its gone and replaced with just a normal aura.

https://ibb.co/GPvkp51

And none of these things on their own really matter since he just doesn’t use his Energy Manipulation at all anymore. Ever since Saganbo fell and he tried it against Ultra Instinct Goku he hasn’t used it much at all.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:38 pm

DiscountDabi wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:31 pm
Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:07 pm
DiscountDabi wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:05 pm
Ok, I’m just gonna add this on here. I don’t like how Toyotarou has kinda Nerfed Moro’s Absorption. This isn’t anything that is new in this chapter, but it is annoying that Toyotarou couldn’t figure out how to get around his Absorption so he just made it weaker. Thats a big problem for me.
When did he make it weaker? Where?
Well lets go through all the abilities Moro showed of on Namek and see what happened to them.

The first one we saw was his manipulation of planet energy. Him using the energy of the planets was far more dynamic and interesting than just average Ki blasts, and he hardly uses it now.

He also had the power to absorb the energy of people around him without them noticing. Now thats gone and now his absorption is something that can simply be dodged if you are fast enough.

This one is just stylistic, but he used to have a very wicked looking aura. Fitting for someone who uses magic instead of just brute strength. Now its gone and replaced with just a normal aura.

https://ibb.co/GPvkp51

And none of these things on their own really matter since he just doesn’t use his Energy Manipulation at all anymore. Ever since Saganbo fell and he tried it against Ultra Instinct Goku he hasn’t used it much at all.

Maybe Moro's just saving his energy absorption for when he's ready to feast on Earth. Since Moro isn't in his weakened state, he probably doesn't feel the need to rely on energy manipulation as much. That, or the writers just don't want him using it during the fights as it would be hard to justify the Z fighters standing their ground against him.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:40 pm

emperior wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:30 pm
TKA wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:55 pm
Okay, but what does being saved because they couldn't do it themselves teach any of the cast? What's the point of this when the arc devoted so much time to Goku and Vegeta's individual growths? Wouldn't this undercut all that and render the entire arc pointless because this was always an option?

More importantly, what does that say to the viewer? Don't be invested in anything going on because outside forces can show up and end it all in an instant?
I think you might be jumping to conclusions a bit too early, aren’t you?
I’m not jumping to any conclusion. I’m responding to a person that theorized a literal conclusion.

If the conclusion of the arc is different, then there will be a different critique. This is talking in purely hypotheticals about what the future might be.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:41 pm

I will say Moro-73 does look a little better from different angles and in combat-motion. I do actually quite like the shot of him smirking to the side just after Vegeta bursts out of the ground. Artwork wise, I will say this chapter is overall good and appropriately visceral to the situation. Goku getting rammed through (hahaha) so gorily was a shocking moment. However, Toyotaro reuses that same damn "worried Trunks"* stance for way too many characters.

Everyone's so preoccupied with all the Chekhov's Guns and Gunmen -- will Merus/Ultra Instinct/Beerus/Buu come back. It just kinda vindicates the fact that this arc has way too much going on to balance. However, I think everyone's overlooked one that's been there all along: Jaco the Galactic Patrolman.

Jaco is usually the one eternal light in terms of writing for this whole storyline -- Toyotaro usually has a good grasp on the humour of the character, but in recent chapters we've seen a different side to him as he's forced into a dire situation that he can't morally justify escaping from. I did like the moment of him admitting to Piccolo that even though he's a runt, he's sticking around because it's his district and it's in danger. I actually hope he gets a serious moment to shine. He's such an underdog, he could easily play a similar role to Yajirobe in the Saiyan arc. There was a spark hinting towards that at the end of this chapter and I hope Toyotaro commits to it -- Jaco has, after all, been here the whole way through. While I don't seriously expect it, it would be nice for Jaco and Merus to get some moments, seeing as they're both among the only ones left standing. Jaco is obviously leagues below Merus, but he has such a huge insecurity complex that deserves to be explored. Merus is always upstaging Jaco but that's only because Merus is an Angel, whereas Jaco is genuinely brave despite being a frail mortal. It would be nice for a bone to be thrown to my boy Jaco.

Looking at it, this chapter ain't all bad. But it's not been the magic One Chapter To Make The Whole Arc Good people were hyping it up to be.

*(forearms bent outwards at the torso level, fists clenched, )
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by jplaya2023 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:42 pm

the ONLY thing i hope for after this arc is the Z fighters train together and learn eachothers techniques and improve their teamwork.

I would like to see the following in no particular order.

1. Goku teaches EVERYONE Kaioken, Instant Transmission & the spirit bomb

2. Gohan obtains SSJ Blue and mixes it with his mystik state

3. Goten and Trunks obtain SSJ Blue and go into Whiz staff for 8 years and become adults

4. Piccolo reads the namek book of legends and implements more magical powers into his arsenal.

5. Androids 17 and 18 learn fusion for them as well as chaozu + kriian and tien and yamcha

6. They use the dragonballs and wish for unlimited stamina, ability to breathe in space, and instant regeneration.

7.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The Undying » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:44 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:41 pm
Looking at it, this chapter ain't all bad.
Personally, I enjoyed Merus at the end.

That plot point about Angels needing to maintain their neutrality is significant because it presents Merus with a difficult moral choice: should he forsake his duty as a Galactic Patrolman in favor of his duty as an Angel, or vice-versa? Given his emotional connections with the characters thus far in the story, the obvious conclusion is that he'd go with the latter. That's an interesting theme that was given some pretty crucial build-up throughout the arc.

Just about everything else bored me to tears, despite the artwork itself being some of Toyotaro's best. It is what it is. The previous chapter was way better.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:55 pm

The Undying wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:44 pm
LoganForkHands73 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:41 pm
Looking at it, this chapter ain't all bad.
Personally, I enjoyed Merus at the end.

That plot point about Angels needing to maintain their neutrality is significant because it presents Merus with a difficult moral choice: should he forsake his duty as a Galactic Patrolman in favor of his duty as an Angel, or vice-versa? Given his emotional connections with the characters thus far in the story, the obvious conclusion is that he'd go with the latter. That's an interesting theme that was given some pretty crucial build-up throughout the arc.

Just about everything else bored me to tears, despite the artwork itself being some of Toyotaro's best. It is what it is. The previous chapter was way better.
Quite. Everyone dunks on Merus but I feel he's an interesting addition with potential, in this storyline anyway. I couldn't imagine a scenario where he could morally justify staying out of the action, even if it costs him his life. He's a hero after all. Seeing the ridiculous number of "big" characters set up in this arc, it would've been funny if Merus, Beerus (Seerus, Neerus, Zeerus-) and Daikaioshin coincidentally showed up at the same time. Hell, bring fuckin' Daishinkan along too, why not, let's have a god-tier partyyyyy-

I just hope they acknowledge Jaco in the same way. Even though realistically there's nothing Jaco can do to hurt Moro, I'd like to see him properly contribute alongside Merus. Maybe apologise for all those times he's stolen credit for Merus's great deeds, but then get affirmation that he doesn't need to -- he's already done so much to help on his own. If there's one theme from Toriyama's writing I want to see kept up, it's unlikely side characters being pivotal to victory.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:58 pm

That was some hardcore beatdown, gory as fuck, Salagir could take some notes from how to use gore properly and not overdo it.

The new design of 7Moro3(seriously, give him an official name) is starting to grow on me, or at least I don't dislike it as much as I did last month.

I knew Vegeta wasn't going to stay out for long, but I thought he could use his technique without contact like he did during training, I guess that was another technique he was practicing with Pybara? couldn't he have tried that instead? and getting his neck grabbed was also a given.

I understand Moro might be testing his powers and he might wanted to teach Vegeta a lesson, but really aside of him and maybe Goku, why take so long with the fodder? absorb them already, Piccolo or even Gohan fighting Moro have no place at all, he should've killed them on the spot or absorbed them on the spot. The pacing was slugish for most of the arc, it picked up recently, so why bring it down again? the cast couldn't even move Saganbo, why would we want to see them with some blasts and explosions vs Moro? introduce Merus earlier and give us a different cliffhanger, it's getting dull to see chapters ending with a new guy joining in. I bet the next one ends with Beerus showing up, MUI showing up, Vegeta showing up, Buu, showing up, someone showing up.

Like others said, Merus without his angel powers should be useless, Moro on top of his new power has added SSBE Vegeta's, so for 30 minutes even Beerus should be outclassed, so what could Merus do with just strategy and his Glock? My bet is he'll try to stall so Dende can save the cast, Whis let him in so I don't think they are planning on letting Merus go all out. That would be ok for Merus' arc, or at least for his intervention on this fight.

At first I thought it was weird for an angel from not this universe going in first instead of the actual hakaishin who should be there too, but considering my previous paragraph it does make sense.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:03 pm

So much has already been expressed that I can't help but agree with, though the teamwork aspect I confess to having really enjoyed. Dragon Ball's combat hasn't been this engaging with multi-functional activity since the Saiyan arc back in Z. Jiren is arguably a precursor as he was opposed by multiple combatants but it lacked the brutality and classic ensemble of faces. I just wish someone had the sense to attempt the Mafuba.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:08 pm

Lionel wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:03 pm
So much has already been expressed that I can't help but agree with, though the teamwork aspect I confess to having really enjoyed. Dragon Ball's combat hasn't been this engaging with multi-functional activity since the Saiyan arc back in Z. Jiren is arguably a precursor as he was opposed by multiple combatants but it lacked the brutality and classic ensemble of faces. I just wish someone had the sense to attempt the Mafuba.

I mean, it might not work. They'll probably write some reason in it like they forgot seal again or something so Moro can't be contained or Moro's magic allowed him to break out again.

Regardless, Moro is a threat too dangerous to seal, he needs to be killed or erased.
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