"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Skar
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:01 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:36 am
I'd order the food and drinks, but by the time they get here, Goku will have already reached (and mastered) a new form. I don't know why they felt the need to have him master not one, but both versions of UI so soon. MUI should've been saved for the next arc, or the one following that. Modern DB isn't going anywhere, they can take their time with things.
I'm not sure if Goku is mastering UI yet because he still struggles to use Omen at full power. After achieving SSJ on Namek, Goku trained to transform at will, and then mastered the form by the end of the Cell arc. In this arc, Goku learned to transform into Omen at will which seemed to have made it easier to trigger UI again but I think he'll learn how to activate UI on his own and master it in a later arc. I could be wrong and it could be revealed he mastered it next chapter though :P.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:09 pm

Would be pretty cool if Goku figured out Ultra Instinct, and used it as his main go to form, doing without the other forms later on

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by YamiGoku » Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:22 pm

I just hope they dont give Goku another transformation for a very long time.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:35 pm

YamiGoku wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:22 pm
I just hope they dont give Goku another transformation for a very long time.
He'll get one in the next arc or movie. I don't think they would've rushed through both Omen and MUI unless they had something else already planned.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:44 pm

Going to laugh if Gokuu achieves a completely unrelated form as a result of this now.

Also, what a horrible arc this is.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:49 pm

I feel bad for the other B tier Z fighters. Honestly if anyone needs a transformation/power boost, its them. Vegeta and Goku are reaching other leagues and the others are still left behind to eat their dust.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:55 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:41 pm
Magnificent Ponta wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:39 pm
how would you (and others, naturally) feel if the next arc were Goku and co. attempting to get the Super Dragon Balls in order to restore Merus (...) The Super Dragon Balls haven't shown up in this arc in any way yet.
I would feel even more disappointed if this next saga (or any other, for that matter) takes place "right after" the Moro saga. That would mean a one-year timeskip (since Super Dragon Balls requires a year to recharge, and they were last used in the Universe Survival saga, hence why they haven't shown up yet). We would be in AGE 781 and Bulma's line would be completely contradicted, with no possibility of it being solved in any way. Not only because of that, but because, either way, we should move on from this time period, I think there's enough of stories set right there.

But if you suggest this saga taking place four years from now, then alright.
I'd forgotten they'd still be inactive by this point (the arc's been longer than I thought...); thanks for the reminder.

But doesn't the exchange between Bulma and Goku only really establish that Goku last came to visit them 5 years before the End of Z (in fact, Bulma's statement that they drop in on him seems to imply they've seen each other, however occasionally, even since then)? If Goku just left on his own, maybe, in a classic Red-Ribbon arc style solo adventure, wouldn't that keep the chronology straight?
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:27 am
Or to make a very long story short:

The Angel laws are what’s keeping the “all-powerful” Angels in check.

Hence why Zeno isn’t needed for that role.

Hence why Zeno doesn’t need to erase them.
If the issue goes like it sounds, I'd agree with this (and also retract my speculation that an attempt to restore Merus would be opposed by Heaven - I'd originally assumed the 'angel laws' were judicial, such that he'd be erased by someone, rather than natural).
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:27 am
Hence why Zeno CAN’T erase them.
Not sure I'd go that far yet, until we see something more specific to indicate this.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:57 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:43 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:42 am
I am NOT complaining! The stronger, the better! This should be common sense.
I don't disagree, as we've always known Goku would master it, but why so soon ? Why not let Omen get its time to shine and save MUI for another arc ? It's SsjG all over again, it was barely used in BOG only to be thrown aside for Blue in the very next story. Imagine if after defeating Freeza on Namek, Goku somehow figured out how to master it and used the FPSsj form against #19 instead of Cell ? We knew Goku would master it, but Toriyama took his time and allowed it to come naturally instead of rushing things.
UI Omen already did get its time to shine. More so than I imagined it would even. He appeared in 3 chapters with this one (actually 4 if you count the ending of the chapter Goku arrived and defeated Saganbo) he also overwhelmed Moro on more than one occasion. So I’d say they’ve done that form a favor. OFCOURSE it was destined to lose in the end, since it’s an incomplete form by definition, and this is MORO we’re talking about. A being not just with great power but with great hax aswell!
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:02 pm

mute_proxy wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:09 pm
Would be pretty cool if Goku figured out Ultra Instinct, and used it as his main go to form, doing without the other forms later on
Oh how I wish this would happen! No more SSJ1-3, SSG, and SSB for him! Just his Base and Ultra Instinct form from now on as his 2 and only main go to forms!
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by jplaya2023 » Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:03 pm

honestly what i want is a backstory to beerus and moro. Goku mastering UI shouldn't be the reason they win as power was never the issue with moro it was his abilities and techniques you needed to worry about

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:12 pm

Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:49 pm
I feel bad for the other B tier Z fighters. Honestly if anyone needs a transformation/power boost, its them. Vegeta and Goku are reaching other leagues and the others are still left behind to eat their dust.
Goku and Vegeta are so far ahead that no amount of transformations will be able to close the gap.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:24 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:12 pm
Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:49 pm
I feel bad for the other B tier Z fighters. Honestly if anyone needs a transformation/power boost, its them. Vegeta and Goku are reaching other leagues and the others are still left behind to eat their dust.
Goku and Vegeta are so far ahead that no amount of transformations will be able to close the gap.
Still, it'd be nice to give them something, as Goku and Vegeta are basically the walking powerhouses of the team. They can't even fight Saganbo without being forced on the defensive, I just feel bad. They need to let them have their own training so they don't need to automatically rely on Goku or Vegeta the moment a high tier fodder shows up.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:55 pm

Is anyone else as hyped about next month’s manga chapter as I am? I can hardly wait already, even though this month’s manga chapter has yet to come out officially tomorrow. I’m already stoked for the next! I just want to see the HISTORIC moment of Goku attaining and mastering the fully completed Ultra Instinct for real this time!

What I really like is that Beerus and Whis are right there to witness it! The great “awakening” of Son Goku is happing right before their very eyes! Beerus and Whis, the two that started this all and introduced us to a whole new world! It’s now come full circle!
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheNingen » Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:21 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:55 pm
Is anyone else as hyped about next month’s manga chapter as I am? I can hardly wait already, even though this month’s manga chapter has yet to come out officially tomorrow. I’m already stoked for the next! I just want to see the HISTORIC moment of Goku attaining and mastering the fully completed Ultra Instinct for real this time!

What I really like is that Beerus and Whis are right there to witness it! The great “awakening” of Son Goku is happing right before their very eyes! Beerus and Whis, the two that started this all and introduced us to a whole new world! It’s now come full circle!
I wish I could be excited. Maybe if the arc wasn't so stupidly dragged out I would have. And I blame Toei and Toyataro both for this. Because I believe Toei is asking Toyo to stretch it out, and Toyo does not have the writing ability to write long-form arcs without relying on convenience and happenstance and general bullshittery to write himself out of a corner.

You can take out the prisoners being freed and them looting planets. They ultimately did nothing and served no purpose to the arc. The only hench person that mattered were Raspberry and 7-3. None of the other prisoners mattered from a plot perspective. They were there to get jobbered by the other Z warriors. You can take all the prisoners out except the aforementioned two and the whole arc wouldn't be changed.

You can take Majin Buu out (because it's clear he isn't going to be relevant again) and even to this point, nothing he did has changed the overall arc. Neither has the Daishinkai.

Ultimately....what was the purpose of this arc? What does it contribute overall in terms to the overall franchise? It has nothing going for it besides "Whelp, here's a arc specific power for Vegeta that he'll most likely never use again and let's have Goku master UI Omen." But story wise...what is there?

With the Battle of Gods, it continued the themes of there always being a strong foe, with Goku becoming complacent in his power and being introduced to a new realm of power, while opening up the world of DB to the canon introduction of a multiverse and other universes to explore.

Ress. F, as bad as it was, gave us the start of Vegeta and Goku developing the aspect of working together, and getting the ball rolling for Ultra Instinct, introducing the concept there. It also gave Freeza some development (as unbelievable as it may be).

Universe 6 Saga established and gave us a glimpse of another Universe and the types of fighters that were there. This was also the first usage and appearance of the Super Dragon Balls and their power.

The Future Trunks saga gave us a look into the God hierarchy and highlighted how the Gods are flawed creatures and don't have their shit together as well as some may have thought. They aren't all knowing, all seeing. They're cocky, incompetent, and sometimes flat out awful. It's also the first arc that (for the most part) introduced a villain with understandable and relatable motivates who from a certain perspective could be viewed as absolutely sympathetic. His downfall came about from his master's incompetence and passivity, and ultimately helped spin the wheel of his fall to a villain as much as Goku did. Beerus is to blame as well in it as he got the ball rolling when he challenged Goku and pushed to find the Super Saiyan God.

The ToP arc brought about the importance of teamwork and an antagonist of pure strength that only relied on himself. Jiren, while a not fully compelling character, was a great foil to Goku. And his power brought about a trait that we've never seen from a character we least expected it from: Freeza. It brought elements and teachings from Ress. F and ideas from Battle of Gods, and provided them throughout the arc. Whether it was satisfying or well written is another story and up for debate entirely, but it IS there. There IS attempts being made for themes to be connected from past arcs and relevance to the story as a whole and growth.

And yes, I know that many of the examples I listed are anime only (but also many of them are present in the manga.) Contrary to popular belief, there actually is a through line between arcs and several connectors. Strong or not, they are there. You just have to look for them.

But as previously mentioned...what is new or fresh about the Moro arc? What is it adding as a whole? What is relevant? How are the background pieces relevant? Why can so much of this arc be cut and the whole story threads would remain wholly unchanged?

That for me is the biggest failure of this arc. That's why I cannot be invested in it. And every chapter I just passively read as if it's a Boruto manga chapter.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:48 pm

I'm sure Toyotaro is trying to convey some kind of message or theme in this arc, but I have no clue what it is. What a weird arc, but then again what is there to expect when the main villain is purposefully written as a generic pure evil monster?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by AndLad92 » Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:52 pm

Kinokima wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:49 am
I don’t have anything to go on beyond gut feeling but after the events of this chapter and what it seems to be leading to I really do feel the manga will be ending after this arc
You shouldn't be so sure.

Another user in here posted this a few weeks ago:

DB Super manga Volume 13’s spine art looks like this:
https://mobile.twitter.com/DBSChronicle ... 3703923712

This book consists of chapter 57-60.

Usually each character take up 3 volumes of spine-art, therefore the manga should last at least until chapter 68. So, at least until January 2021.
I honestly doubt the Moro arc will be this long so I think it’s safe to assume that the manga isn’t ending anytime soon.
As a big fan of Dragon Ball, I should be expected to hate the live action movie "Dragon Ball: Evolution", but I don't. I don't like it because of the content, but because it gave us Dragon Ball Super:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:05 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:55 pm
Is anyone else as hyped about next month’s manga chapter as I am?
I am, and we're in luck, it's releasing 4 days earlier on the 18th, which means leaks should be out on the 15th.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kagari » Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:25 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:12 pm
Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:49 pm
I feel bad for the other B tier Z fighters. Honestly if anyone needs a transformation/power boost, its them. Vegeta and Goku are reaching other leagues and the others are still left behind to eat their dust.
Goku and Vegeta are so far ahead that no amount of transformations will be able to close the gap.
The writers can easily just power up characters again like they did for the US arc. 17, Gohan, Freeza don't need more transformations to get stronger when they were put on a similar playing field to Goku at the start of said arc.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:29 pm

Kagari wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:25 pm
The writers can easily just power up characters again like they did for the US arc.
That was some of, if not the worst writing to come out of modern DB. How on earth can someone who watches over an island, and someone who "trained" with Piccolo for ONE day reach Goku's level ? I don't think any words can describe just how bad of a decision that was on their part.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:34 pm

I mean, realistically, what way could the others fighters catch up? Or at least, catch up enough to where they don't get immediately put on the defensive by people like Saganbo? Unless the androids can get upgraded(not sure if that's even possible) or Gohan and Piccolo get new or enhanced forms, I don't see how they could realistically catch up enough to hold their own against empowered minions.
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