"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Kanassa]

I'm sill waiting for an explanation on why Moro doesn't have a time limit on his copied abilities.

Toyo favors his OC too much, obviously.

Honestly with the way Moro is written, he gets abilities slapped onto him just to make killing him harder when at no point was it foreshadowed he could do this stuff. I won't be surprised if on the brink of defeat Moro has some power that ends up screwing everyone over somehow.

A few pannels, a few lines of dialouge hinting, anything to make the logical leap to his next ability more natural and less contrived. But no, Moro (and to a lesser extent, his goons) always have to introduce these abilities exactly when he needs them. Most of Z's arcs had this, but they usually had it once or twice across multiple arcs, where as Moro has them all crammed together.

[Kagari]

I'm sill waiting for an explanation on why Moro doesn't have a time limit on his copied abilities.

Toyo favors his OC too much, obviously.

Honestly with the way Moro is written, he gets abilities slapped onto him just to make killing him harder when at no point was it foreshadowed he could do this stuff. I won't be surprised if on the brink of defeat Moro has some power that ends up screwing everyone over somehow.

He's being written out of convenience to fit the situation rather than anything planned. It does nothing but exhaust the reader when they're treated to several different versions of what should have been the resolution to their problems.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Toyo favors his OC too much, obviously.

Honestly with the way Moro is written, he gets abilities slapped onto him just to make killing him harder when at no point was it foreshadowed he could do this stuff. I won't be surprised if on the brink of defeat Moro has some power that ends up screwing everyone over somehow.

He's being written out of convenience to fit the situation rather than anything planned. It does nothing but exhaust the reader when they're treated to several different versions of what should have been the resolution to their problems.

If they give Moro anymore abilities or some last minute 'FUCK YOU I'M SCREWING EVERYONE OVER' I'm going to rip my hair out. Honestly I feel they gave Moro these stupid and overly contrived abilities just so Merus could be killed off. Even if I didn't like Merus, the way Moro gets these stupid power ups just to force the main cast to get their asses kicked and saved by divine intervention is getting on my nerves....

[Kagari]

Honestly with the way Moro is written, he gets abilities slapped onto him just to make killing him harder when at no point was it foreshadowed he could do this stuff. I won't be surprised if on the brink of defeat Moro has some power that ends up screwing everyone over somehow.

He's being written out of convenience to fit the situation rather than anything planned. It does nothing but exhaust the reader when they're treated to several different versions of what should have been the resolution to their problems.

If they give Moro anymore abilities or some last minute 'FUCK YOU I'M SCREWING EVERYONE OVER' I'm going to rip my hair out. Honestly I feel they gave Moro these stupid and overly contrived abilities just so Merus could be killed off. Even if I didn't like Merus, the way Moro gets these stupid power ups just to force the main cast to get their asses kicked and saved by divine intervention is getting on my nerves....

I'm not keen on it either. DB needs less focus on the gods, not more of it. Keeping Beerus and co. away was one of the few things I thought was interesting.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

He's being written out of convenience to fit the situation rather than anything planned. It does nothing but exhaust the reader when they're treated to several different versions of what should have been the resolution to their problems.

If they give Moro anymore abilities or some last minute 'FUCK YOU I'M SCREWING EVERYONE OVER' I'm going to rip my hair out. Honestly I feel they gave Moro these stupid and overly contrived abilities just so Merus could be killed off. Even if I didn't like Merus, the way Moro gets these stupid power ups just to force the main cast to get their asses kicked and saved by divine intervention is getting on my nerves....

I'm not keen on it either. DB needs less focus on the gods, not more of it. Keeping Beerus and co. away was one of the few things I thought was interesting.

If they were going to have anyone intervene, why didn't they have Beerus do it? He hasn't done anything in ages anyway. The writing is so eeeeeeeehhhhhh. In the next chapter, who knows! Merus's sacrifice will turn out for nothing for all we know and Moro somehow has some hax ability over MUI with the way he's getting abilities tossed at him.

Besides, I have no idea how they are going to write the Grand Priest as he's going to get a bit ticked off Whis didn't keep Merus out of the conflict. Whis looks so stupid honestly as Merus killing himself makes Whis look dumb. Did Whis just not care that he's responsible for Merus and let him intervene despite it being on his shoulders? The writing is definitely not the greatest.

[Dragon Wukong]

I dislike the idea of introducing a whole tiered deific system and keeping it out of the plot in a series like DB. I like Merus' involvement in this arc, and Toyotaro seems to be adding a lot of flair to his combat by tossing in Galactic Patrol gadgets (particularly with his staff usage resembling the nyoibo)

[ssj3kakarot]

Well my theory is that not even Zeno can erase any of the Angels since they have absolute and total immortality and invulnerability. The “only way” they can die is through breaking the Angel code. Hence why Zeno didn’t erase them during the ToP (because he can’t!)

Otherwise, if Zeno could just erase an out of order, hell bent on destruction Angel who went all nuts every single time, then the Angelic law wouldn’t be needed.. Since they already have a way out (Zeno’s erasure button).

Also, both the Angels and the Omni-King’s come from “the great beyond”. The true world above OUTSIDE the 12 universes and their respective other worlds and demon realms, so logic would assume they are both of equal status. It’s just that the Zen-chans have been tasked with “ruler” of the mortal world below. While the Angels have not, if that makes sense to you.

That’s what I believe could be the case and it would explain a lot of things.

So basically in this version, Zen-Oh can erase ANY being from the lower world (12 universes and their other worlds and demon realms, including their Kaioshins and Gods of Destruction). But can’t erase any creature from his own “world beyond”.

Future Zamasu may have been “immortal” but he still belonged to the mortal world. Hence why he could be taken out. The Angels aren’t. They come from “the great beyond”.

Unfortunately your theory has been disproven in the anime. Zeno can and has destroyed Grand Priest and an Angel before actually. He destroyed an entire timeline....in the Zamasu arc, that includes the GP and everyone else. There isn't anything he can't destory.

No evidence that these Angels were erased. You are the one making assumptions now. You shouldn’t be so sure of yourself. And besides I am not saying I am absolutely correct. Afterall, I’ve already stated that it is a theory.

No evidence? Do you remember where Zeno destroys Universe 13-18 because he was upset. Those angels that resided in those Universes also were erased. We never see them, they aren't ever spoken of. Its a logical conclusion that they were erased, otherwise something to the effect would have been stated. No such statement has been given, as far as I am aware. When Zeno erases Future Trunks timeline, he would essentially erase anything and everything, including...you guessed it, Angels (Whis and Grand Priest).

I am not being sure of myself, I am using the information given to me by the Manga panels. The only being that is truly immortal is Zeno. He can not be beaten, something also explicity stated in the manga. Angels are not immortal, and Zeno can, and has erased them before. Until future information comes out saying the Angels from Universe 13-18 have been kicking it at pool side this whole time, then they were erased.

[ZombieVito]

Unfortunately your theory has been disproven in the anime. Zeno can and has destroyed Grand Priest and an Angel before actually. He destroyed an entire timeline....in the Zamasu arc, that includes the GP and everyone else. There isn't anything he can't destory.

No evidence that these Angels were erased. You are the one making assumptions now. You shouldn’t be so sure of yourself. And besides I am not saying I am absolutely correct. Afterall, I’ve already stated that it is a theory.

No evidence? Do you remember where Zeno destroys Universe 13-18 because he was upset. Those angels that resided in those Universes also were erased. We never see them, they aren't ever spoken of. Its a logical conclusion that they were erased, otherwise something to the effect would have been stated. No such statement has been given, as far as I am aware. When Zeno erases Future Trunks timeline, he would essentially erase anything and everything, including...you guessed it, Angels (Whis and Grand Priest).

I am not being sure of myself, I am using the information given to me by the Manga panels. The only being that is truly immortal is Zeno. He can not be beaten, something also explicity stated in the manga. Angels are not immortal, and Zeno can, and has erased them before. Until future information comes out saying the Angels from Universe 13-18 have been kicking it at pool side this whole time, then they were erased.

Yup.

The GP would have gone for Future Zeno if he was still alive.

In the anime they go for him quick but in the manga they wait what? A day?

[DiscountDabi]

Ok Given the Speech Merus makes about the Galactic Patrol about how they are really weak in the grand scheme of the universe, but they still go out and try to protect the Galaxy they love.

I get what Toyotaro is going for. I really do. But they really should have spent more more time with the Galactic Patrol instead of focusing on Moro so much. It is the Galactic Patrol Prisoner Saga but its hardly about the Galactic Patrol.

[Matches Malone]

17 trained for 13 some years.

Gohan trained for a year post Resurrection F and is already established to make quick gains.

It's not different than a rusty Goku getting UI by genkidama and completing it in 20 minutes or SSBE Vegeta coming out of nowhere.

What training ? watching over an island ? that's in no way shape or form like training with an angle, or training for 7 years in the afterlife.

His training was basically what he did back in the Saiyan arc when he was a child, but now it's somehow the equivalent of an angle's training...makes sense.

Both are just as bad, especially Goku's. Vegeta got a new form because he wanted one while Goku got a power that rivals the angles through getting hit by an attack that was weaker than what killed Kid Buu.

[ZombieVito]

17 trained for 13 some years.

Gohan trained for a year post Resurrection F and is already established to make quick gains.

It's not different than a rusty Goku getting UI by genkidama and completing it in 20 minutes or SSBE Vegeta coming out of nowhere.

What training ? watching over an island ? that's in no way shape or form like training with an angle, or training for 7 years in the afterlife.

His training was basically what he did back in the Saiyan arc when he was a child, but now it's somehow the equivalent of an angle's training...makes sense.

Both are just as bad, especially Goku's. Vegeta got a new form because he wanted one while Goku got a power that rivals the angles through getting hit by an attack that was weaker than what killed Kid Buu.

Lol no. That Genkidama was stronger than KKx20 Blue Goku.

[HeroR]

He's being written out of convenience to fit the situation rather than anything planned. It does nothing but exhaust the reader when they're treated to several different versions of what should have been the resolution to their problems.

If they give Moro anymore abilities or some last minute 'FUCK YOU I'M SCREWING EVERYONE OVER' I'm going to rip my hair out. Honestly I feel they gave Moro these stupid and overly contrived abilities just so Merus could be killed off. Even if I didn't like Merus, the way Moro gets these stupid power ups just to force the main cast to get their asses kicked and saved by divine intervention is getting on my nerves....

I'm not keen on it either. DB needs less focus on the gods, not more of it. Keeping Beerus and co. away was one of the few things I thought was interesting.

Except keeping Beerus out made no sense since it's literally Beerus' job to handled mortals like Moro and his failure in the past to do so got his universe nearly erased just an arc ago.

17 trained for 13 some years.

Gohan trained for a year post Resurrection F and is already established to make quick gains.

It's not different than a rusty Goku getting UI by genkidama and completing it in 20 minutes or SSBE Vegeta coming out of nowhere.

What training ? watching over an island ? that's in no way shape or form like training with an angle, or training for 7 years in the afterlife.

His training was basically what he did back in the Saiyan arc when he was a child, but now it's somehow the equivalent of an angle's training...makes sense.

Both are just as bad, especially Goku's. Vegeta got a new form because he wanted one while Goku got a power that rivals the angles through getting hit by an attack that was weaker than what killed Kid Buu.

Lol no. That Genkidama was stronger than KKx20 Blue Goku.

I find it weird that people still say this. Do people honestly think Goku and all his friends would be dumb enough to think that a Spirit Bomb that was weaker than the one that killed Kid Buu could beat Jiren who beat Blue Kaioken x20 by staring at it?

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

If they give Moro anymore abilities or some last minute 'FUCK YOU I'M SCREWING EVERYONE OVER' I'm going to rip my hair out. Honestly I feel they gave Moro these stupid and overly contrived abilities just so Merus could be killed off. Even if I didn't like Merus, the way Moro gets these stupid power ups just to force the main cast to get their asses kicked and saved by divine intervention is getting on my nerves....

I'm not keen on it either. DB needs less focus on the gods, not more of it. Keeping Beerus and co. away was one of the few things I thought was interesting.

Except keeping Beerus out made no sense since it's literally Beerus' job to handled mortals like Moro and his failure in the past to do so got his universe nearly erased just an arc ago.

Well he's not doing a very good job of it. Merus legit had to kill himself for any reaction from Beerus. Honestly he should've at least stepped in by now. Because I imagine now that Merus is erased, he and Whis are in hot-water with the Grand Priest.

[UpFromTheSkies]

I'm sill waiting for an explanation on why Moro doesn't have a time limit on his copied abilities.

When copying another person's abilities there is a time limit, but Moro took back the powers he stored in 73 and there's no limit on them because they're originally his.

[HeroR]

Pretty much. When the ceiling gets raised so high the writers have to compensate and they have and they can again. It's not that difficult, there's nothing barring them from doing so.

We'd need to put the focus away from Goku and Vegeta for any improvement from the B tier fighters. Goku and Vegeta are pretty popular, you'd need to kill them off in order for the writers to realistically focus on others.(Not happening)

That very thing happened in the Universe Survival arc. In the anime specifically Vegeta is sidelined for the first 20 episodes or so while Gohan and Goku go around to the exhibition and recruitment of the team members, the training with said characters, etc. Gohan got a lot of focus here and more screen time the entire arc than Vegeta. It's not unrealistic because it's happened. Again, it's up to the writers.

Gohan is just about as popular as Vegeta based on various polls, with Goku usually far about both but those are just numbers. It's no surprise that the most popular Super ever got was when the US arc started focusing on an ensemble cast.

Like, yeah, this is why I just say "fuck it" and made Chaozu into a Kageyama Shigeo homage in my "Moro arc remake" because...why not? There's no reason why he can't be strong (I also just liked the story idea's dramatic potential).

Right, it's fiction. There's no reason to be close-minded when this series specifically has proven almost anyone can be relevant.

Actually, rating wise, the most popular arc was the Future Trunks Saga from beginning to end. Unless you mean internet, from which you have to remember that Super didn't even get an official sub until near the end of the Future Trunks Saga.

[Kagari]

We'd need to put the focus away from Goku and Vegeta for any improvement from the B tier fighters. Goku and Vegeta are pretty popular, you'd need to kill them off in order for the writers to realistically focus on others.(Not happening)

That very thing happened in the Universe Survival arc. In the anime specifically Vegeta is sidelined for the first 20 episodes or so while Gohan and Goku go around to the exhibition and recruitment of the team members, the training with said characters, etc. Gohan got a lot of focus here and more screen time the entire arc than Vegeta. It's not unrealistic because it's happened. Again, it's up to the writers.

Gohan is just about as popular as Vegeta based on various polls, with Goku usually far about both but those are just numbers. It's no surprise that the most popular Super ever got was when the US arc started focusing on an ensemble cast.

Like, yeah, this is why I just say "fuck it" and made Chaozu into a Kageyama Shigeo homage in my "Moro arc remake" because...why not? There's no reason why he can't be strong (I also just liked the story idea's dramatic potential).

Right, it's fiction. There's no reason to be close-minded when this series specifically has proven almost anyone can be relevant.

Actually, rating wise, the most popular arc was the Future Trunks Saga from beginning to end. Unless you mean internet, from which you have to remember that Super didn't even get an official sub until near the end of the Future Trunks Saga.

Talking about in terms of announcement, following the weekly magazine updates and the hype surrounding the show itself, which yeah the latter definitely was influenced by the official sub.

[HeroR]

I'm not keen on it either. DB needs less focus on the gods, not more of it. Keeping Beerus and co. away was one of the few things I thought was interesting.

Except keeping Beerus out made no sense since it's literally Beerus' job to handled mortals like Moro and his failure in the past to do so got his universe nearly erased just an arc ago.

Well he's not doing a very good job of it. Merus legit had to kill himself for any reaction from Beerus. Honestly he should've at least stepped in by now. Because I imagine now that Merus is erased, he and Whis are in hot-water with the Grand Priest.

That's been my complaint this entire arc, but every time I pointed this out I get ten million excuses why Beerus shouldn't get involved and none of them make any sense. I even wrote on ResetEra Dragon Ball forum that Meerus wouldn't even have to die if Beerus did his job and the Grand Priest should punished him for that.

[Matches Malone]

Lol no. That Genkidama was stronger than KKx20 Blue Goku.

I find it weird that people still say this.

Considering how everyone on the team is on Goku and Vegeta's level now, including Krillin who held off an attack from Blue Goku, I guess the attack would be stronger than the one that killed Buu. How anyone can call that good writing is another story, which is why we have a topic in the general section questioning people's standards.

[HeroR]

That very thing happened in the Universe Survival arc. In the anime specifically Vegeta is sidelined for the first 20 episodes or so while Gohan and Goku go around to the exhibition and recruitment of the team members, the training with said characters, etc. Gohan got a lot of focus here and more screen time the entire arc than Vegeta. It's not unrealistic because it's happened. Again, it's up to the writers.

Gohan is just about as popular as Vegeta based on various polls, with Goku usually far about both but those are just numbers. It's no surprise that the most popular Super ever got was when the US arc started focusing on an ensemble cast.



Right, it's fiction. There's no reason to be close-minded when this series specifically has proven almost anyone can be relevant.

Actually, rating wise, the most popular arc was the Future Trunks Saga from beginning to end. Unless you mean internet, from which you have to remember that Super didn't even get an official sub until near the end of the Future Trunks Saga.

Talking about in terms of announcement, following the weekly magazine updates and the hype surrounding the show itself, which yeah the latter definitely was influenced by the official sub.

I have to agree on that, although the Future Trunks Saga have people talking for months trying to figure how who Black was, which is how we got the infamous Goten Black.

But the reason why USS got such a big internal following is because it had an official sub that people could watched an hour after the episode aired instead of waiting a day or two to get a sub that was at least decently accurate. That is how a lot of Youtubers came on board to make live reaction videos that also hyped up the arc and Toei also got more involved with their website that gave brief bios on the gods.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Except keeping Beerus out made no sense since it's literally Beerus' job to handled mortals like Moro and his failure in the past to do so got his universe nearly erased just an arc ago.

Well he's not doing a very good job of it. Merus legit had to kill himself for any reaction from Beerus. Honestly he should've at least stepped in by now. Because I imagine now that Merus is erased, he and Whis are in hot-water with the Grand Priest.

That's been my complaint this entire arc, but every time I pointed this out I get ten million excuses why Beerus shouldn't get involved and none of them make any sense. I even wrote on ResetEra Dragon Ball forum that Meerus wouldn't even have to die if Beerus did his job and the Grand Priest should punished him for that.

Merus dying is on Whis and Beerus(Whis took responsibility for Merus directly and put him under his care and he failed, Beerus is indirectly responsible for his death for not killing Moro or stepping in prior.) Merus being killed is stupid to me, because why is Whis ok with this? Even if Whis didn't care about Merus, he has to shoulder the blame for his demise and that makes him look bad. Beerus also is going to be put on the fire for not doing his job and killing Moro when he had the chance.