"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Kinokima]

. Heck Vegeta stopped Moro’s energy drain and restored namek, but no one cares because he didn’t beat the big bad.

Yep can’t even tell you how many people (including big accounts on Twitter) said his new move did absolutely nothing even though it did accomplish something positive

But to many people in this fandom only beating the main villain matters

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

I don't care who beats who. But if Moro has some bs power up his sleeve again and ends up flipping the battle on its head I won't be happy. Moro needs to die within the next 2 chaps at least, because any longer would be ridiculous given MUI Goku is about to turn Moro into his new punching bag and Vegeta can defuse him in his weakened state if he has to. Moro having some bs thing to overcome MUI would make very little sense unless Goku burns out again at the worst possible moment.

[Ziegander]

My only concern with the ending to this arc is that the only thing that's remained consistent throughout has been Toyo's propensity to surprise us. Oh, Goku's training with an Angel to perfect Ultra Instinct. LOL, he failed his training and is fucking up using Omen, Moro is just stronger than Omen, by a lot, fuck you Goku. Oh, Vegeta's completing his Spirit Control training and he's got a power that's going to specifically counter Moro. LOL, Moro got more powerful than ever. Not to mention the battles on Namek months ago.

The manga has literally told us, Goku, you just need a push and you'll activate completed Ultra Instinct. Here's the push. If you activate completed UI now, you'll be unbeatable. But Toyo is too in love with that bait and switch. It will be utter bullshit if Goku does achieve completed UI and still doesn't manage to defeat Moro, but what if he just doesn't complete UI? I mean... I'm gonna go on record, Moro might not have another trick up his sleeve, but Toyo does. Unless it's really all corporate bullshit and he's now being given permission to end the arc, Toyo is going to surprise us again. The ending is not going to be Goku activates UI, trounces Moro, and the Galaxy is saved, happiness abounds and everyone lives in peace. Something is going to happen to throw a wrench into things, and I'm not optimistic it's going to be something that pleases Vegeta fans, for example. I'm not expecting Vegeta to be needed to separate Moro and 7-3, why would that be needed? I'm not expecting Goku to run out of UI or have his body get wrecked for being a mortal using a godly technique. The manga has literally said, if he activates completed UI it will be more stable than ever. That doesn't mean he'll be able to maintain it forever, or that he'll be able to enter that state at-will, but it better at least mean he can defeat one opponent with it before it burns out and almost kills him. So, I just feel like Toyo's got something coming, and it's not going to be any shine for Vegeta. So what is it going to be? Probably something just like every single other "twist" of this arc. Something really, really annoying.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Some of you guys are being impossibly pedantic.

Characters are allowed to feel different emotions based on the circumstance. Characters are allowed to react differently depending on the context. Goku is allowed to feel emotionally shocked while directly witnessing a comrade die, or failing as a student, as much as he's allowed to feel more quietly remorseful in a similar situation after reflecting on his actions.

It's never black and white. It's never free of context. To argue otherwise is to advocate for one-dimensional character caricatures, not characters.

Relax, let the story do its thing, and maybe judge the writing from a broader, more critical perspective instead of exhaustingly hairsplitting every little panel and piece of dialogue written by Toyotaro. You don't have to be that reductive; Toriyama isn't.

Keep in mind that some of the people who go out of their way to criticize the manga are people who don't like Toyo and the manga itself from the beginning. So their reaction will be much more exaggerated. And from what I follow, the harshest reactions to DBS chapters are here (often with some unfair criticism)

I enjoyed the Toppo win at the time but the fandom ruined it for me by saying how horrible the form was an MUH Cabba and MUH Bulma and complaining about surviving Final Explosion again. In the end the Toppo win was an afterthought. It didn’t even last 1/2 and episode and looking at the aftermath of it no one really cares about the Toppo fight

People talk about how Vegeta fans shouldn't complain because he gets the most prominence next to Goku (this is the only option since all the other Z Fighters have been left out) when in fact the situation is just a little better than in DBZ. The fight against Toppo is an example of this. Half an episode with poor animation was dedicated to this fight and in the grand scheme of things it was completely forgettable in universe, even though in theory it seems like a great feat. Ultimately, Vegeta was sidelined from the big fights in almost every single DBS arc.

[Kinokima]

My only concern with the ending to this arc is that the only thing that's remained consistent throughout has been Toyo's propensity to surprise us. Oh, Goku's training with an Angel to perfect Ultra Instinct. LOL, he failed his training and is fucking up using Omen, Moro is just stronger than Omen, by a lot, fuck you Goku. Oh, Vegeta's completing his Spirit Control training and he's got a power that's going to specifically counter Moro. LOL, Moro got more powerful than ever. Not to mention the battles on Namek months ago.

The manga has literally told us, Goku, you just need a push and you'll activate completed Ultra Instinct. Here's the push. If you activate completed UI now, you'll be unbeatable. But Toyo is too in love with that bait and switch. It will be utter bullshit if Goku does achieve completed UI and still doesn't manage to defeat Moro, but what if he just doesn't complete UI? I mean... I'm gonna go on record, Moro might not have another trick up his sleeve, but Toyo does. Unless it's really all corporate bullshit and he's now being given permission to end the arc, Toyo is going to surprise us again. The ending is not going to be Goku activates UI, trounces Moro, and the Galaxy is saved, happiness abounds and everyone lives in peace. Something is going to happen to throw a wrench into things, and I'm not optimistic it's going to be something that pleases Vegeta fans, for example. I'm not expecting Vegeta to be needed to separate Moro and 7-3, why would that be needed? I'm not expecting Goku to run out of UI or have his body get wrecked for being a mortal using a godly technique. The manga has literally said, if he activates completed UI it will be more stable than ever. That doesn't mean he'll be able to maintain it forever, or that he'll be able to enter that state at-will, but it better at least mean he can defeat one opponent with it before it burns out and almost kills him. So, I just feel like Toyo's got something coming, and it's not going to be any shine for Vegeta. So what is it going to be? Probably something just like every single other "twist" of this arc. Something really, really annoying.

This was exactly my point the other day. While I said I personally still think they will do something with Vegeta’s Spirit fission and Goku’s UI (whatever that is) . That may not be the case but my main point was they probably aren’t going to make the conclusion so obvious based on the Cliffhanger of the last chapter.

[JulieYBM]

Like I said, Toyo-tarou is trying to outsmart us and it's fucking up the story with all these extra steps. The structure is a mess. No favors to the story have been done by making Moro--a character nobody is particularly invested in--get so many power-ups.

[Kinokima]

Like I said, Toyo-tarou is trying to outsmart us and it's fucking up the story with all these extra steps. The structure is a mess. No favors to the story have been done by making Moro--a character nobody is particularly invested in--get so many power-ups.

I think you can’t really just blame Toyotarou I feel like all of Super has been about a twist ending the worst offender being the ending of the Future Trunks arc. I just hope it won’t be something god awful like that

[JulieYBM]

Like I said, Toyo-tarou is trying to outsmart us and it's fucking up the story with all these extra steps. The structure is a mess. No favors to the story have been done by making Moro--a character nobody is particularly invested in--get so many power-ups.

I think you can’t really just blame Toyotarou I feel like all of Super has been about a twist ending the worst offender being the ending of the Future Trunks arc. I just hope it won’t be something god awful like that

I blame JUMP editorial more, to be fair. They're the ones approving this shit.

[Tai Lung]

Goku's reaction makes sense considering the amount of time in-universe he spent with Merus, doing the thing he loves most (fighting). The issue is that we the readers haven't really gotten to know Merus that well, and this is a series that usually gets the readers very well used to a character before killing them off (how much time did we spend with Krillin before he got killed off in the Piccolo Daimao arc? even with #16, he was at least in a *long* arc) so there is a disconnect. And that's not what you want the readers to be feeling at such a pivotal point in the story.

The arc was fine up to this point, but someone (Toyo or Toriyama, idk) blew their load too early. We should've gotten another arc with Merus before killing him off and spurring Goku into gaining MUI. The ideas aren't bad, but it's held back by the monthly manga format. The anime could turn this into something great, assuming we get another anime and not just more movies.

goku only spent 3 days with him ...
if the deceased had been beerus or whis, So we probably be felt bad .. but merus is a character represented as "perfect" during most of the moro arc ... it has no impact
in comparison merus and goku does not have the same chemistry as with them ..

[Koitsukai]

At this point, I think the most surprising ending would be the logical UI beating Moro for good.
Really, we are all expecting Toyo to give Moro something new to pull out of his ass so this can be dragged a little longer. Maybe we'll be shocked with some logic next month? By now I only hope Toyo is just as bored with this arc as most of us are.

Regarding the hate the manga and Toyo get, I've read people calling it Ultra rage instinct, lol, like what manga have this fellas been following? People really prefer to not read the material in order to keep the mindless bashing going.

And boy, are the leaks, conclusions and fan theories going to become unbearable a week before the chapter is released.

[Ziegander]

I mean, I'm generally a Toyo fan, and I've liked a lot of the things he's done with the manga, but this arc in particular... it showed so much promise, but it's just become a shitshow. I fully expect Goku to achieve completed UI due to overcoming his initial emotional shock of Merus being erased. And I will applaud the storytelling when that happens.

But Toyo's not done.

I'm just not convinced, given his track record in this arc, that he's going to end things so succinctly and neatly. Maybe he will, and maybe he'll even manage to end things quickly while simultaneously setting up the next arc in efficient fashion.

I just have a bad feeling.

I mean, I was sure Buu was going to have more of an impact. Nope. I was sure Omen UI would be more than enough to deal with Moro. Nope. I was sure, after Omen failed so pathetically, that surely this means, now, more than ever before, Vegeta's training must have meant something! Lol, NOPE! So... I just feel like Toyo's narrative signalling... it's hard to trust it when it seems like he's taking the plot somewhere. But the last chapter telegraphed the next one SO CLEARLY, if he doesn't deliver, it will be incredibly, incredibly irritating.

[DiscountDabi]

This arc simply went on too long. It really should have ended on Namek with Moro being defeated by the combined efforts of Goku, Vegeta, and the Grand Supreme Kai. The Vegeta Yardrat stuff could have been saved for another arc, as with Goku’s mastery of ultra instinct and Merus’s death. There is just too much stuff in this arc that trying to balance all of it and have a satisfying cohesive ending is pretty much impossible. We don’t even know if the Grand Supreme Kai will be involved in the end as he hasn’t been relevant for months.

[Matches Malone]

At this point, I think the most surprising ending would be the logical UI beating Moro for good.

As much as I'd like to see it end with MUI, I think we'll get at least 1 or even 2 more fake outs before its really over. I think MUI will run out just as he's about to land the finishing blow. This will result in Vegeta jumping in, making it look like he's going to get the job done. He'll split them up, but just as he's about to land the finishing blow, something goes wrong.

[theherodjl]

I wonder if we'll get a Moro origin story chapter just before he is defeated? Perhaps we could learn how & why Moro absorbs life-energy and what led him to desiring universal conquest? I don't really buy that Moro's technique is natural or that its something that he could easily obtain so an explanation would be great.

[Grand Marshal 1]

I wonder if we'll get a Moro origin story chapter just before he is defeated? Perhaps we could learn how & why Moro absorbs life-energy and what led him to desiring universal conquest? I don't really buy that Moro's technique is natural or that its something that he could easily obtain so an explanation would be great.

A 'time to have a flashback to what led me to be here before I die' thing will actually flesh his character a lot imo. Jiren's case was ehhhh.... You know.

But we are talking about Moro here. Someone deemed as a threat by the Great Lord of Lords! I would dig such a chapter.

[Ziegander]

At this point, I think the most surprising ending would be the logical UI beating Moro for good.

As much as I'd like to see it end with MUI, I think we'll get at least 1 or even 2 more fake outs before its really over. I think MUI will run out just as he's about to land the finishing blow. This will result in Vegeta jumping in, making it look like he's going to get the job done. He'll split them up, but just as he's about to land the finishing blow, something goes wrong.

Oh my god, please no.

[SupremeKai25]

I wonder if we'll get a Moro origin story chapter just before he is defeated? Perhaps we could learn how & why Moro absorbs life-energy and what led him to desiring universal conquest? I don't really buy that Moro's technique is natural or that its something that he could easily obtain so an explanation would be great.

Super writers can't make flashbacks even if their life depended on it. Most likely Moro's origin story would end up as shallow and pathetic as Jiren's. A generic 2 minutes-long flashback just so that the writers can pretend they tried to flesh-out the villain.

The only origin story these guys did perfectly was Zamasu's, and they devoted like 8 episodes to it. If they wanted to explain Moro's past, they should have done it earlier. Maybe Toei can take the memo, we'll see when the anime adapts the Moro arc.

(Actually I can't recall if Toyotaro even gave Jiren a backstory, I think the flashback was anime only)

[Skar]

I wonder if we'll get a Moro origin story chapter just before he is defeated? Perhaps we could learn how & why Moro absorbs life-energy and what led him to desiring universal conquest? I don't really buy that Moro's technique is natural or that its something that he could easily obtain so an explanation would be great.

I don't think we'll get more of a motive other than he's a hungry demon goat with an insatiable appetite for energy. I think a simple motive is sometimes more effective than an attempt at something more complex and it falls flat. Although I would like to find out Moro's origin and how he escaped from the Galactic Prison (I forgot if that was already covered. We learned those for the other ancient sealed monsters in the series like King Piccolo, Buu, Hirudegarn, and Demigra.

[Xeogran]

(Actually I can't recall if Toyotaro even gave Jiren a backstory, I think the flashback was anime only)

It wasn't shown, but they focused on Jiren's master in the dialogue more in the manga, mentioning tidbits that he can't be revived by Angels because of being killed by a Demon.

[Peach]

I wonder if we'll get a Moro origin story chapter just before he is defeated? Perhaps we could learn how & why Moro absorbs life-energy and what led him to desiring universal conquest? I don't really buy that Moro's technique is natural or that its something that he could easily obtain so an explanation would be great.

If I was writing a Moro origin story, I would connect him to Bibidi. Maybe show a council of magic or demons. Some of them silhouetted. The group disbands after the leader is killed by the Grand Supreme Kai and South Supreme Kai. Maybe at one point Bididi could asks if Moro wants to come with him and Dabura, but Moro declines.

I don't care who beats who. But if Moro has some bs power up his sleeve again and ends up flipping the battle on its head I won't be happy. Moro needs to die within the next 2 chaps at least, because any longer would be ridiculous given MUI Goku is about to turn Moro into his new punching bag and Vegeta can defuse him in his weakened state if he has to. Moro having some bs thing to overcome MUI would make very little sense unless Goku burns out again at the worst possible moment.

I would be okay with it only if Beerus joined the fight, and finally fought seriously.