"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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DBZ Macky
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:25 pm

There were a lot of interesting concepts this arc - the Grand Kaioshin, the Yardratian techniques like making clones / manipulating one's size, Moro's hyped second wish which turned out to be underwhelming etc.

I'm beginning to think binging the Manga might be a better experience that keeping up with it month-to-month and building up expectations in my head.
DiscountDabi wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:40 pm
This arc simply went on too long.
Classic Dragon Ball, I guess? :P
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ChronoTwigger » Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:04 pm

Checklist.
  • There's Goku.
    Let's have other people do something with henchmen.
    Goku struggle at the start.
    Goku training.
    A sparring partner die, Goku morph.
    Vegeta did something? mkay. But not essential.
    Space!
    Space opponent! A criminal that destroy planets!
    The opponent change three times or more.
    Namek.
    Switch!
    Vegeta was bad, but now is not so bad.
    Hey, Dende come healing!
    Loooong final battle
That's actually the retell of an arc you actually know.
And such arc ended with planet explosion and your main character lost.

Be ready.
(Possible twist: this time is Vegeta that teleport away with the enemy and explode with him)
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BWri » Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:50 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:07 pm
People talk about how Vegeta fans shouldn't complain because he gets the most prominence next to Goku (this is the only option since all the other Z Fighters have been left out) when in fact the situation is just a little better than in DBZ. The fight against Toppo is an example of this. Half an episode with poor animation was dedicated to this fight and in the grand scheme of things it was completely forgettable in universe, even though in theory it seems like a great feat. Ultimately, Vegeta was sidelined from the big fights in almost every single DBS arc.
I felt more bad for Toppo. He had such a great awakening episode as a G.O.D. only to be wrecked single-handedly by Vegeta. I was very much hoping he'd actually pose more of a threat than he did. His awakening episode still gives me chills.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jean0987654321 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:53 am

Well...I hope this stupid arc finally ends soon

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:17 am

DiscountDabi wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:40 pm
This arc simply went on too long.
The issue isn't the length, but rather the content. Everything up until Goku and Vegeta left Namek to train was great, but then we were stuck with 9 months of basically nothing. That was followed by 2 months of great chapters, Omen Goku and Vegeta vs Moro, which is when and how things should've ended. As much as I'd like to see this arc end within the next chapter or two, I think there's still a long road ahead of us. :crazy:

This is my predictions for the next few chapters:

64: MUI Goku and Moro fight, but not seriously.
65: MUI Goku and Moro fight seriously, with Goku losing just before he can deliver the finishing blow.
66: Vegeta vs Moro round 2, with Vegeta separating him and 7-3, but somehow not getting the job done.
67: Beerus vs Moro, with Beerus somehow getting all his powers drained, making Moro even stronger than before.
68: Dai Kaio shows up and fights Moro, ending with him using his magic to fuse Goku and Vegeta into Vegetto.
69: MUI Vegetto with spirit control vs Moro, finally killing Moro.
70: Aftermath.

I know this sounds crazy and unbelievable, but I expect at least part of it to come true.
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:07 pm
Vegeta was sidelined from the big fights in almost every single DBS arc.
Battle of Gods: He was the only one capable of doing anything to Beerus before SsjG, surpassing both Ssj3 Goku and Mystic Gohan.
Resurrection F: In the anime, Goku couldn't land a single hit of Freeza, making Vegeta's beat down stand out even more.
Champa arc: He got to take out 3 of the 5 fighters.
Trunks arc: He was the only one capable of beating Black in a fight.
Tournament of power: He took down a destroyer level fighter in Toppo.
Broly: He put up a respectable fight against Broly.
Moro: He was the only one capable of beating Moro and freeing the universe's energy before he fused.

I'm not saying we can't expect more, but there's no doubt that Vegeta has been treated very well in modern DB.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Trouser » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:30 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:17 am
Battle of Gods: He was the only one capable of doing anything to Beerus before SsjG, surpassing both Ssj3 Goku and Mystic Gohan.
Resurrection F: In the anime, Goku couldn't land a single hit of Freeza, making Vegeta's beat down stand out even more.
Champa arc: He got to take out 3 of the 5 fighters.
Trunks arc: He was the only one capable of beating Black in a fight.
Tournament of power: He took down a destroyer level fighter in Toppo.
Broly: He put up a respectable fight against Broly.
Moro: He was the only one capable of beating Moro and freeing the universe's energy before he fused.

I'm not saying we can't expect more, but there's no doubt that Vegeta has been treated very well in modern DB.
Yeah, Vegeta's done so much in Super, probably even more than in the original manga, but hE dIdN'T bEaT mAiN vIlLaIn, so his fanboys will complain. Goku didn't win a major fight alone in Super too - he lost to Beerus, didn't beat Frieza in fair fight, didn't beat Hit (he gave up), was trashed by Zamasu (in the end he couldn't do anything, so Zeno had to help), he couldn't defeat Jiren even with full UI (they (Goku and Frieza) barely kicked Jiren out of the ring), and at the end he lost to Broly and had to use fusion dance to make Gogeta.
Even if Vegeta will someday get to kill main villain, it'll be forgotten very quickly and the complains from his fanbase will rise again. Some things never change.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:01 am

Trouser wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:30 am
Yeah, Vegeta's done so much in Super, probably even more than in the original manga, but hE dIdN'T bEaT mAiN vIlLaIn, so his fanboys will complain.
There's more to a character than simply winning a big fight. That's not to say I wouldn't like to see it happen, I just don't understand why the majority of his fans look past what he's actually accomplished. If he happens to get the big win against Moro, then great, if not, it doesn't change the fact that he put on a really good show during this arc, and his fans should be happy about that.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Issei189 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:38 am

As a Vegeta fan, I don't care too much about him winning, but at the same time i think all of his accomplishments and power ups in DBS were for nothing. This formula of Vegeta getting a new power up and then immediately losing to the main Villain in every fight has become predictable and boring imo. We need something fresh like Vegeta weakening the enemy for real. No cops outs.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:48 am

Issei189 wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:38 am
We need something fresh like Vegeta weakening the enemy for real. No cops outs.
I still think that might happen with Moro. Giving Vegeta something as important as being able to split fused beings only for him not to use it doesn't make sense to me.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:31 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:17 am
DiscountDabi wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:40 pm
This arc simply went on too long.
The issue isn't the length, but rather the content. Everything up until Goku and Vegeta left Namek to train was great, but then we were stuck with 9 months of basically nothing. That was followed by 2 months of great chapters, Omen Goku and Vegeta vs Moro, which is when and how things should've ended. As much as I'd like to see this arc end within the next chapter or two, I think there's still a long road ahead of us. :crazy:

This is my predictions for the next few chapters:

64: MUI Goku and Moro fight, but not seriously.
65: MUI Goku and Moro fight seriously, with Goku losing just before he can deliver the finishing blow.
66: Vegeta vs Moro round 2, with Vegeta separating him and 7-3, but somehow not getting the job done.
67: Beerus vs Moro, with Beerus somehow getting all his powers drained, making Moro even stronger than before.
68: Dai Kaio shows up and fights Moro, ending with him using his magic to fuse Goku and Vegeta into Vegetto.
69: MUI Vegetto with spirit control vs Moro, finally killing Moro.
70: Aftermath.

I know this sounds crazy and unbelievable, but I expect at least part of it to come true.
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:07 pm
Vegeta was sidelined from the big fights in almost every single DBS arc.
Battle of Gods: He was the only one capable of doing anything to Beerus before SsjG, surpassing both Ssj3 Goku and Mystic Gohan.
Resurrection F: In the anime, Goku couldn't land a single hit of Freeza, making Vegeta's beat down stand out even more.
Champa arc: He got to take out 3 of the 5 fighters.
Trunks arc: He was the only one capable of beating Black in a fight.
Tournament of power: He took down a destroyer level fighter in Toppo.
Broly: He put up a respectable fight against Broly.
Moro: He was the only one capable of beating Moro and freeing the universe's energy before he fused.

I'm not saying we can't expect more, but there's no doubt that Vegeta has been treated very well in modern DB.
And yet, all of these arcs have in common the fact that Vegeta was sidelined from all the big fights

BoG: Vegeta had a rage moment against Beerus but basically watched the whole main fight from the outside
U6: Defeated fodder and in the main fight ... was destroyed by Hit to show Goku the way to win
FT:Trained months at RoSaT to master the SSB and in the end... Goku gets a power up that makes him the only one capable of defeating the big boss (Merged Zamasu)
ToP: He only got involved in the final part of the arc, when he defeated Toppo and was eliminated by Jiren (in this case he was not even part of the last fighters standing in the arena)
Moro: - An entire training arc dedicated to him and the result is the same (he makes the enemy even stronger and is defeated, and is unable to face the big boss of the arc)

I know this makes some of Vegeta's fans look like ungrateful bastards, but clearly there's a pattern here, and I'm kind of tired of it, because it's literally always the same thing. Vegeta trains or gets a power up and is defeated without being able to face the big boss. It's no different than DBZ

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:40 am

ChronoTwigger wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:04 pm
Checklist.
  • There's Goku.
    Let's have other people do something with henchmen.
    Goku struggle at the start.
    Goku training.
    A sparring partner die, Goku morph.
    Vegeta did something? mkay. But not essential.
    Space!
    Space opponent! A criminal that destroy planets!
    The opponent change three times or more.
    Namek.
    Switch!
    Vegeta was bad, but now is not so bad.
    Hey, Dende come healing!
    Loooong final battle
That's actually the retell of an arc you actually know.
And such arc ended with planet explosion and your main character lost.

Be ready.
(Possible twist: this time is Vegeta that teleport away with the enemy and explode with him)
What do you mean Vegeta doing something cool is “not essential”?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:47 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:31 am
Vegeta trains or gets a power up and is defeated without being able to face the big boss. It's no different than DBZ
That's what happens when a story is extended beyond its natural endpoint (at this point, waaaaaay beyond), you end up with scenarios that are basically what we've already seen. Vegeta's arc in the original was never to end up defeating the big bad, it was to come to terms with who he was and what he was capable of. The problem is that Vegeta's arc (and everyone else's) is over, so we only have the fights to fall back on. Vegeta should've been allowed to have his own separate adventures following the events of BOG, as he has very little left to offer being stuck with the current cast.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:38 pm

Raise your hand if you have the feeling Moro is gonna have some bs magic trick/plot boost to somehow not get decimated by MUI Goku? Because I have the feeling that is going to happen....
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:25 pm

Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:38 pm
Raise your hand if you have the feeling Moro is gonna have some bs magic trick/plot boost to somehow not get decimated by MUI Goku? Because I have the feeling that is going to happen....
I have no doubt that'll happen, maybe even to whoever fights him after MUI is taken out. I think there'll be at least 2-3 more fights before he's finally killed.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:05 pm

Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:38 pm
Raise your hand if you have the feeling Moro is gonna have some bs magic trick/plot boost to somehow not get decimated by MUI Goku? Because I have the feeling that is going to happen....
I feel like you've been saying this sort of thing a lot...

It's probably gonna happen, though. Not a single Super arc has given us a straightforward "hero beats villain" conclusion, there's always some twist or gimmick. It'd be more surprising if Ul Goku does just flat-out win. The question is, then what?...
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:22 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:05 pm
Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:38 pm
Raise your hand if you have the feeling Moro is gonna have some bs magic trick/plot boost to somehow not get decimated by MUI Goku? Because I have the feeling that is going to happen....
I feel like you've been saying this sort of thing a lot...

It's probably gonna happen, though. Not a single Super arc has given us a straightforward "hero beats villain" conclusion, there's always some twist or gimmick. It'd be more surprising if Ul Goku does just flat-out win. The question is, then what?...
I'd like to add that throughout Dragon Ball's story arcs, the hero gaining a transformation has almost never marked the end of the battle. SS1 Goku didn't immediately beat Frieza, there was plenty of fighting after he transformed, including the attempt to blow up the planet. SS2 Gohan didn't immediately beat Cell, there was plenty of story afterwards, including Goku's sacrifice. In GT, SS4 Goku didn't immediately beat Baby, as Baby went monkey mode after that and Goku had to borrow energy and all that. There's always more to come after the hero's transformation, except in a few cases, mostly in the movies. The whole idea of "the hero has gotten a new form, so now he'll win" isn't really accurate, there's always a few more twists to come.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:04 pm

Even with my personal gripes with this arc, I do still hope it gets animated. Especially since Omen Goku looks better in the anime than the manga, I will fight anyone who disagrees.

Not to mention, Blue Evolution Vegeta while he has a better aura in the manga to me, still looks better overall in the anime

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:15 pm

DiscountDabi wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:04 pm
Even with my personal gripes with this arc, I do still hope it gets animated. Especially since Omen Goku looks better in the anime than the manga, I will fight anyone who disagrees.
Assuming the anime returns, this arc will without a doubt get animated.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:04 pm

Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:38 pm
Raise your hand if you have the feeling Moro is gonna have some bs magic trick/plot boost to somehow not get decimated by MUI Goku? Because I have the feeling that is going to happen....
I’d really HATE that!!!!

Moro should be eliminated by MUI in the next chapter. No buts or ifs or questions asked. No games, no jokes. It’s been long overdue and long past time. This arc needs to end now. I’ve greatly enjoyed it but it’s served its purpose. It’s gone on for too long. It should have ended when Vegeta was about to, you know... DESTROY him!
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:25 pm

I don't think the fight will be an automatic win for UI Goku. The reason why Merus got rid of Moro's copy ability is because Moro would be able to grab and mimic Goku's power. Which means Moro will be a formidable foe for UI Goku without the crystals already. Toyotaro has to showcase what so special about Moro now. This is the best time to do it, against UI Goku. I believe it will be a close match.

Also, it wouldn't be far fetched for Moro to throw out more magic. He already told Goku in their earlier bout that he has a plethora of arts in his bag. So Moro bringing the magic show would be no problem.

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