"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Matches Malone]

Would you rather we see the characters climb the SSJ ladder that the U6 Saiyans seem to be doing or going for a more unique variant of SSJ?

I'd rather they throw all those forms out the window in favor of something like Omen or Mystic.

I agree. But then “Omen”, or rather, shall I say, (the black haired version), should then ideally be the only version of UI. I.e. just “Ultra Instinct” which by definition is already perfected. Or in other words, they should have never introduced the silver haired version.

What do you think?

I completely agree. I think Omen being the ultimate form for Goku would've been perfect, as he would've basically perfected himself by no longer needing to rely on transformations others do, such as Vegeta.

[DevilKing99]

Lots of people on Twitter and other social networks are clamoring for figures of Caulifla, Kale, and Kefla.

And want new stories and fights with characters from universe 6. There are suggestions in the forums and other social networks in the U.S. in France and elsewhere.

In France there are even videos of Youtubers who would like when the story of Goku is over, a spin-off where we will follow the adventures of the characters from universe 6.

Could you send me a link to those France videos? I want to see if their idea matches any of mine when it comes to ideas for a U6 spin-show.

[Noah]

Didn't bother to read the chapter this time, cause' I believe 3 is the limit to waste your time with stuff you know you'll be disappointed.

But, I got the info by reading what ya all people were commenting, so let me see if I got this straight:

- Merus died and next chapter is Super Saiyan Ultra Instinct?
Huh, seems legit. Too bad that I have the feeling that this will take a little bit longer for its finale.

I wonder how much of that is actual belief that the manga is ending and how much of it is actually a wish for the manga to end.

A lot of it was wishful thinking, and unrealistically at that. There's simply too many plot points to resolve before it ends. We've got Freeza, Planet Sadala, Broly, the 4 universes that didn't take part in the TOP, Goku fully mastering UI, and finally (I think) Beerus getting his rematch with Goku and Vegeta. Once those are resolved, then we can start seriously considering the possibility of it ending.

Please mate, most of these don't even need to be solved: don't need to kill Freeza, just have him as an anti-hero (every sh*t he does Goku and Vegeta will destroy him anyway). Planet Sadala is much like the Namekian Book Of Legends, a plot point dropped for the lulz that unlikely will be revisited in the future. Broly is no threat to anyone but the fools who dares to challenge him, the 4 universes have no background compelling enough to make a full story about them. Goku mastering UI serves no purpose as they could introduce a villain stronger than that, then a new Saiyan form to make it even. Goku and Vegeta getting a rematch with Beerus is the only thing I agree that's need to be resolved before Super ends.

This arc simply went on too long.

Classic Dragon Ball, I guess?

Well, yes... but in the anime? In the manga we always expect to have a much better pacing overall.

Spoiler:

I love how f**king accurate this is lol

[Ilikepictures-meh]

Didn't bother to read the chapter this time, cause' I believe 3 is the limit to waste your time with stuff you know you'll be disappointed.

But, I got the info by reading what ya all people were commenting, so let me see if I got this straight:

- Merus died and next chapter is Super Saiyan Ultra Instinct?
Huh, seems legit. Too bad that I have the feeling that this will take a little bit longer for its finale.

I wonder how much of that is actual belief that the manga is ending and how much of it is actually a wish for the manga to end.

A lot of it was wishful thinking, and unrealistically at that. There's simply too many plot points to resolve before it ends. We've got Freeza, Planet Sadala, Broly, the 4 universes that didn't take part in the TOP, Goku fully mastering UI, and finally (I think) Beerus getting his rematch with Goku and Vegeta. Once those are resolved, then we can start seriously considering the possibility of it ending.

Please mate, most of these don't even need to be solved: don't need to kill Freeza, just have him as an anti-hero (every sh*t he does Goku and Vegeta will destroy him anyway). Planet Sadala is much like the Namekian Book Of Legends, a plot point dropped for the lulz that unlikely will be revisited in the future. Broly is no threat to anyone but the fools who dares to challenge him, the 4 universes have no background compelling enough to make a full story about them. Goku mastering UI serves no purpose as they could introduce a villain stronger than that, then a new Saiyan form to make it even. Goku and Vegeta getting a rematch with Beerus is the only thing I agree that's need to be resolved before Super ends.

This arc simply went on too long.

Classic Dragon Ball, I guess?

Well, yes... but in the anime? In the manga we always expect to have a much better pacing overall.

Spoiler:

I love how f**king accurate this is lol

What the hell is Super Saiyan Ultra Instinct? That's not a thing.
Frieza being anything but an evil villian is ridiculous. Claiming "the 4 universes have no background compelling enough to make a full story about" is even more hilariously ridiculous considering it's basically a blank page since we currently know very little about the other universes in general.

[head_cha_la]

Lots of people on Twitter and other social networks are clamoring for figures of Caulifla, Kale, and Kefla.

And want new stories and fights with characters from universe 6. There are suggestions in the forums and other social networks in the U.S. in France and elsewhere.

In France there are even videos of Youtubers who would like when the story of Goku is over, a spin-off where we will follow the adventures of the characters from universe 6.

Could you send me a link to those France videos? I want to see if their idea matches any of mine when it comes to ideas for a U6 spin-show.

Here is the video where he talks about a possible spin-off with universe 6 once the story of Goku is finished : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao0WxMg ... 2&index=84

With a spin-off on universe 6 where we will follow the adventures of Caulifla, Kyabe, Kale, Champa and Vados we could develop a lot of things in a new universe, King Sadala, Hit, Frost, the Earth restored by Beerus, the Nameks' Dragon Balls (with a new Dragon) and even Super Dragon Balls. Caulifla, Kale and Kyabe are called the Defenders of Universe 6 in derivatives.

[ZombieVito]

I love how f**king accurate this is lol

Yes. It baffles me that people actually want him to run things. He's terrible.

Hopefully the anime returns next year.

[mute_proxy]

Spoiler:

I love how f**king accurate this is lol

Uhuh, I've also noticed this,
when it's good - "Toyotaro is a great artist, a true successor to Toriyama",
when it's bad - "It's the editors, it's Shueisha, they rushed him, they made him do it, also Toriyama supervises everything, nothing goes past him, so it's not his fault!".

[Skar]

Spoiler:

I love how f**king accurate this is lol

Is it accurate though? Granted I've only been following this thread so I don't know what fans say on other sites or social media. I don't consider Toyotaro a better writer than Toei's current staff and I think they're in the same position as fans of the series growing up who now have the opportunity to work on the sequel. I usually prefer the manga because it has one writer so less padding. I feel that would be a more accurate adaption of Toriyama's outlines since they're so short. There were only a few anime-only moments that I hoped was part of the outline and would appear in the manga. I think the best version of DBS are the fan recuts that remove all the unnecessary padding from the anime and doesn't suffer from the "too many cooks in the kitchen" feeling.

[The Undying]

Is it accurate though?

Is it even worth replying to? Notice how that image - in lieu of constructing a substantial argument - immediately places excessive emphasis on what fans want, makes blanket statements about character roles, doesn't attempt to bolster its claims about "no themes", and constantly mocks/strawmans possible responses rather than backing up its own points.

I can only imagine who created it, but they were clearly more interested in their cycle "gotcha" memes than engaging in good faith. Can't take it seriously.

[Skar]

Is it even worth replying to? Notice how that image - in lieu of constructing a substantial argument - immediately places excessive emphasis on what fans want, makes blanket statements about character roles, doesn't attempt to bolster its claims about "no themes", and constantly mocks/strawmans possible responses rather than backing up its own points.

I can only imagine who created it, but they were clearly more interested in their cycle "gotcha" memes than engaging in good faith. Can't take it seriously.

Yeah I've noticed that. The manga gets a lot of valid criticism but some of it feels disingenuous and an effort to make the anime look better. If you prefer one over the other, at least don't make it sound like only the manga suffers from these issues.

I think the manga vs anime discussions are only between the more dedicated fans. To the general anime audience, both might be considered equally average at best. I haven't watched a lot of anime so I usually check year-end or best of the decade lists and pick something that shows up on several of them. I rarely see DBS unless it's towards the bottom of a very long list. It was no doubt popular because it was a sequel to one of the most iconic and beloved series of all time but I don't think any new anime could've lasted long if it had the same rough start for the first few dozen episodes/chapters. I also don't know of a manga that started as a promotional manga and had to slowly work its way up to a full length release.

I think both versions have improved since the beginning but I wouldn't mind if both were discontinued and they only have movies moving forward. My main interest in DBS comes from Toriyama being involved so I rather a version of the story mostly written by him like the movies rather the apparent shorter outlines used for the series. I think the next best scenario would both sides spending more time with Toriyama to flesh out his outlines and not take too many liberties that he probably won't ever take into consideration or ignore in his next outline.

[Kinokima]

Is it even worth replying to? Notice how that image - in lieu of constructing a substantial argument - immediately places excessive emphasis on what fans want, makes blanket statements about character roles, doesn't attempt to bolster its claims about "no themes", and constantly mocks/strawmans possible responses rather than backing up its own points.

I can only imagine who created it, but they were clearly more interested in their cycle "gotcha" memes than engaging in good faith. Can't take it seriously.

Yeah I've noticed that. The manga gets a lot of valid criticism but some of it feels disingenuous and an effort to make the anime look better. If you prefer one over the other, at least don't make it sound like only the manga suffers from these issues.

I think the manga vs anime discussions are only between the more dedicated fans. To the general anime audience, both might be considered equally average at best. I haven't watched a lot of anime so I usually check year-end or best of the decade lists and pick something that shows up on several of them. I rarely see DBS unless it's towards the bottom of a very long list. It was no doubt popular because it was a sequel to one of the most iconic and beloved series of all time but I don't think any new anime could've lasted long if it had the same rough start for the first few dozen episodes/chapters. I also don't know of a manga that started as a promotional manga and had to slowly work its way up to a full length release.

I think both versions have improved since the beginning but I wouldn't mind if both were discontinued and they only have movies moving forward. My main interest in DBS comes from Toriyama being involved so I rather a version of the story mostly written by him like the movies rather the apparent shorter outlines used for the series. I think the next best scenario would both sides spending more time with Toriyama to flesh out his outlines and not take too many liberties that he probably won't ever take into consideration or ignore in his next outline.

This is pretty much how I feel I think the manga and anime are both enjoyable but pretty much average manga. If I wasn’t a Dragon Ball fan to begin with I probably wouldn’t be interested but I do enjoy spending more time with the Dragon Ball characters


Also while I wish certain characters got more screen time I enjoy Goku and Vegeta and don’t mind that they get the focus (though I understand why that wouldn’t be appealing to everyone)

But like you it annoys me when comparisons between the manga and anime are disingenuous where people will exaggerate flaws of one but ignore the flaws of the other.

Also I think Toyo gets a lot of really unfair nasty flack which goes way beyond simple constructive criticism. People are just rude.




Now as for the other discussion the Sadala arc I do still want this. I’d like Caulifla, Kale and Cabba to be part of another arc. But admittedly my idea of this arc and what it would ultimately be would probably be very different that even if they did do it I would probably end up ultimately being disappointed.

[GodVegetto91]

I'd rather they throw all those forms out the window in favor of something like Omen or Mystic.

I agree. But then “Omen”, or rather, shall I say, (the black haired version), should then ideally be the only version of UI. I.e. just “Ultra Instinct” which by definition is already perfected. Or in other words, they should have never introduced the silver haired version.

What do you think?

I completely agree. I think Omen being the ultimate form for Goku would've been perfect, as he would've basically perfected himself by no longer needing to rely on transformations others do, such as Vegeta.

Yeah, it’s as close to Base as possible. Almost like Mystic was. I like the Omen version better than Mystic, since there are still SOME changes, but very minor ones. The form is perfect because 1) It’s literally just Base Goku with a new aura and new colored eyes, 2) It has “God Ki”, divine energy that cannot be sensed by mortals. 3) It has the ability of self movement! Where the body moves on its own without the need to think and waste time on the whole thought process. Allowing you to be much faster and to always be on guard.

It’s very close to Goku’s Base Form in terms of looks, but still has enough changes to visually showcase that it’s a new level.

Unlike Mystic.. Where there is almost none. It has no God ki, no mastery of self movement. No physical changes. Just pure strength. And you need to know about it, otherwise you would never notice it.

[BWri]

Spoiler:

I love how f**king accurate this is lol

Is it accurate though?

It's actually not accurate. If you compare BoG to ToD to the current arc, there's really no crossover to the bulletpoints listed. ToD has no lore, there are no fan wishes for BoG since that one is new and it doesn't use any fan theories or anything, "ARC Begins: This is so much better than the anime" the manga arcs usually started before the anime, etc.

I could keep going on, but really these are just generalizations about the last two arcs, but then again, even that doesn't work since ToP was all about the fighting which doesn't fit "It's not just about the fighting". So this catch-all really doesn't catch-all and is just a lot of vague Toyotaro hate compiled. I mean, some of this fits, but its by no means an accurate representation of any arc but the current one. That's all I'll give it.

[DiscountDabi]

Best Prediction for the end of this arc, as it stands right now.

Goku goes into Mastered Ultra Instinct and starts bodying Moro. Think Super Vegeta Vs Semi Perfect Cell. Full on Massacre. Moro after getting bodied notices the hand Merus cut off. And he notices that it did in fact copy Merus’s abilities and he eats it gaining Merus’s abilities.

And the fight continues and with Merus’s Power Its not as One sided but Goku isn’t really bothered. Goku after a bit longer just bodies Moro into the ground and has him defeated, but he flashes back to what Merus said and doesn’t want to kill Moro.

Moro takes this opportunity to try and attack Goku and at the moment Moro gets separated by Vegeta and 7-3 topples over passed out. A pissed off Vegeta puts his hand in-front of Moro’s Face and just blasts him into nothing.

Is this a perfect ending? Hell no. But from what we have right now I think its the best we could get.

I miss when Moro was a cocky goat man. He didn’t have much character but atleast he was fun to watch. Now he’s a generic Cell Faced Dragon Ball Villain who seems so Bored at this point. Makes you wonder why he hasn’t just eaten everyone’s energy.

[Matches Malone]

Is this a perfect ending? Hell no. But from what we have right now I think its the best we could get.

I agree that Vegeta will separate Moro and 7-3, as there'd be no reason to give him such an ability if he weren't going to use it. He even went as far as to say that's what he'll do. My main question is why. Does Vegeta sneak up on him while Goku's fighting ? Does Goku's UI run out ? Does Goku outright lose ?

[DiscountDabi]

Is this a perfect ending? Hell no. But from what we have right now I think its the best we could get.

I agree that Vegeta will separate Moro and 7-3, as there'd be no reason to give him such an ability if he weren't going to use it. He even went as far as to say that's what he'll do. My main question is why. Does Vegeta sneak up on him while Goku's fighting ? Does Goku's UI run out ? Does Goku outright lose ?

He doesn’t loose, he was the clear victor. And MUI doesn’t run out. Goku just remembers what Merus said about him trying to redeem villians and he hesitates to Kill Moro. And then Moro tried to attack him but then gets split by Vegeta and he kills him.

[Xeogran]

Anyone here saw the new color pages? Kale's hair is colored so weird, it's like they didn't want to make it green but it's too iconic already. And then Kefla's is proper green despite that.

[Tai Lung]

Anyone here saw the new color pages? Kale's hair is colored so weird, it's like they didn't want to make it green but it's too iconic already. And then Kefla's is proper green despite that.

there is inconsistency in the colors ... even caulifla has green hair in that panel

[The Undying]

Anyone here saw the new color pages? Kale's hair is colored so weird, it's like they didn't want to make it green but it's too iconic already. And then Kefla's is proper green despite that.

You need two U6 Saiyans to make a Hulk Broly.

[Koitsukai]

Yeah, this looks certainly odd


Also, for Blue Kaioken I was hoping darker shades of blue at the edges of the aura, something close but not quite like Evolved Blue. Still better than mixing red and blue.