"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Miracles]

Good. No filler Blue Kaioken in the movies or manga.

[FrioPolar]

Thank goodness the Blue Kaioken does not appear in the manga.

That transformation sucks. Like all exclusive anime ideas.

[DiscountDabi]

Thank goodness the Blue Kaioken does not appear in the manga.

That transformation sucks. Like all exclusive anime ideas.

Guess this guy doesn’t like the Baseball Episode

[Tai Lung]

Good. No filler Blue Kaioken in the movies or manga.

this is still canon ...just visually different

Guess this guy doesn’t like the Baseball Episode

neh .. the guy hates those who criticize the manga also just for having another opinion ... or preferring anime ideas

[pepd]

Glad to see (kinda)yellow SS Kale and blue “SSBKK” Gokū. TBH tho, just wanted it to question the colors , I don't really consider this release.

[Tai Lung]

Okay I am so glad that Blue Evolution is colored the same as the anime ....



obviously they can't change the drawing ... but it got pretty close but with the kaioken they can´t change it

anyway I will say that this vol does not have a very coherent color like the case of "caulifla berserker"

and I'm pretty sure which merus will have a different skin color ...

[Koitsukai]

V-Jump already left clear Blue Kaioken was a thing and that it had a blue aura. They named it.

[Matches Malone]

Good. No filler Blue Kaioken in the movies or manga.

People seriously need to stop throwing the word filler at everything they don't like.

[The Bastard.]

I really like Blue Kaioken colour in the anime, Red and Blue flared up aura looks good, especially on Dragon Ball FighterZ, the glitter all around is a nice touch, but they should have gone with some Purple in the parts were the red and blue interlaps, would look even better.

[Skar]

Good. No filler Blue Kaioken in the movies or manga.

People seriously need to stop throwing the word filler at everything they don't like.

I think there's some truth it since it was originally an anime-only idea and likely won't be incorporated by Toriyama in any future outline. The same applies to completed Blue and maybe Blue Evolution unless it's revealed Toriyama came up with it. Both versions seem to be free to use them but Toriyama only had the regular Blue form appear in DBS Broly.

I don't mind Kaioken appearing in the manga since it was only Goku activating what I assume was the first level of Kaioken and not up to x10 or x20. It was only one time as well and he has no reason to use it again now that he's training to control UI. I always felt that Kaioken was a little overkill since Blue was a strenuous form that was already stacking two forms together. Nothing against those who liked the form but I was glad it wasn't Toriyama's idea.

[theherodjl]

How can the DBS anime be "filler"??? The anime came first and finished first. The stimatization of "filler" in this context is even more ridiculous since it's not even being applied correctly.

[LoganForkHands73]

Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken is a total guilty pleasure for me. I'm quite fond of it. I'm a fan of the red/blue aura contrast, controversial opinion though it may be in this thread. However, it looking exactly the same as normal Blue in the manga means we can still all pretend it doesn't exist in Toriyama's mind.

Meanwhile, Vegeta's Royal Blue transformation being kept still feels a bit weird to me. At least it looks distinct from Toyotaro's other SSGSS forms. There's something so off about it though. Don't get me wrong, it looks much better here than in the anime (which isn't hard), but I think it's the fact that it still looks so... glossy and fake. Not the fact that it's a darker blue, which I actually like.

[Skar]

How can the DBS anime be "filler"??? The anime came first and finished first. The stimatization of "filler" in this context is even more ridiculous since it's not even being applied correctly.

I don't think anyone is saying the entire anime is filler. In this context, it's anything added to the manga or anime that wasn't in Toriyama's outline or at least not necessary to fill it out and probably won't be taken into consideration by him in any future outline. For example, Gogeta was implied to be the first fusion Freeza ever met. Kefla was Toei's idea that Toyotaro decided to incorporate into the manga later and Gotenks only appeared in the RoF saga. While Freeza may have witnessed other fusions in the anime and manga continuities, Gogeta was the first he met according to Toriyama's outlines.

[theherodjl]

I don't think anyone is saying the entire anime is filler. In this context, it's anything added to the manga or anime that wasn't in Toriyama's outline or at least not necessary to fill it out and probably won't be taken into consideration by him in any future outline. For example, Gogeta was implied to be the first fusion Freeza ever met. Kefla was Toei's idea that Toyotaro decided to incorporate into the manga later and Gotenks only appeared in the RoF saga. While Freeza may have witnessed other fusions in the anime and manga continuities, Gogeta was the first he met according to Toriyama's outlines.

Regardless of how much of DBS that people consider to be "filler", the anime is in no way synonymous with the term as it was not based on Toyotaro's manga but rather it's own creative direction & schedule. "Filler" in this case is just a buzzword for "the iteration, or parts of it, that I don't like or care for" and that is simply inaccurate.

[Skar]

Regardless of how much of DBS that people consider to be "filler", the anime is in no way synonymous with the term as it was not based on Toyotaro's manga but rather it's own creative direction & schedule. "Filler" in this case is just a buzzword for "the iteration, or parts of it, that I don't like or care for" and that is simply inaccurate.

I'm not sure how you're getting that from my response. I'm not singling out the anime and I gave two examples of Toriyama ignoring manga and/or anime-only plot points and transformations in DBS Broly. I'm not against all their additions but my preference would be for both the manga and anime to not add anything that will likely be ignored by Toriyama in a future outline or movie.

[TheSaiyanGod]

V-Jump already left clear Blue Kaioken was a thing and that it had a blue aura. They named it.

Well, actually the article just says that Goku used the same principles as Kaioken, and not the technique itself. This movement is even compared to the transformation of Kale who focuses on raw power, causing damage to the body.

Blue Kaioken" seems just a convenient name for the situation considering that the anime makes use of this combination

[The Undying]

These colorations don't exactly change what we already knew. "Blue Kaioken" is a convenient shorthand that employs a similar principle to Kaioken rather than the technique itself (even the V Jump guide where the name originates describes it as such), which is why you don't see a red aura in those panels. Blue Evolved is a "uniquely styled mastery of Blue" that completely replaces Vegeta's previous uses of Blue, which is why you don't see pupils and roid muscles from a form that didn't supersede the classic Blue.

One thing that caught my eye: Blue Evolved's hair and iris colors, aura appearance, and aura colors look remarkably similar to the Blue design used by Goku and Vegeta in Broly. That's not to claim they're identical or anything, and it's more than likely a coincidental artistic choice, but I thought it was interesting.

That one Caulifla panel is obviously an error. Kale's yellow-green hair can be seen in the anime when she's slimmed down. Unfortunately, this does make Kefla's hair look stupidly jarring.

I think they did a fine job for the most part. I'm not a fan of the green sky from the anime, and I have no idea how the colorists will mark that transition in the manga, but it's otherwise pretty competent.

[Koitsukai]

V-Jump already left clear Blue Kaioken was a thing and that it had a blue aura. They named it.

Well, actually the article just says that Goku used the same principles as Kaioken, and not the technique itself. This movement is even compared to the transformation of Kale who focuses on raw power, causing damage to the body.

Blue Kaioken" seems just a convenient name for the situation considering that the anime makes use of this combination

I meant Goku kaioken-ishly augmenting his power happened, no matter what people feel about it.

Also, there isn't much more to Kaioken than that. He amplifies his power like kaioken using the same principles, it takes a toll on the body, and has a similar, distinctive, aura(not the ssb aura, the kaioken aura but blue instead of red like stated by V-Jump)
It's not even a conclusion the fandom came to, it was included and never questioned in the dialogue for a reason, and while it isn't kaioken stacked on top of blue like in the anime, for practical purposes, it pretty much is.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I feel like the tendency that the colour release has to soften the aura by blending has had a slightly unfortunate effect on the depiction of the 'Kaio-Ken Blue'. For me, it's lost a bit of the rough, raw quality of the black and white which made it look like an explosive, 'all-or-nothing' power-up; here it just kind of looks like a normal aura. It makes almost no impression in the 'what I need now is pure power' panel.

And for what it's worth, I do think we're talking something like a 2x increase on Goku's usual Blue power when he uses it - else, what's the point in making the comparison with Kaio-Ken, if it doesn't even yield a similar sort of power-up?

[Koitsukai]

I feel like the tendency that the colour release has to soften the aura by blending has had a slightly unfortunate effect on the depiction of the 'Kaio-Ken Blue'. For me, it's lost a bit of the rough, raw quality of the black and white which made it look like an explosive, 'all-or-nothing' power-up; here it just kind of looks like a normal aura. It makes almost no impression in the 'what I need now is pure power' panel.

And for what it's worth, I do think we're talking something like a 2x increase on Goku's usual Blue power when he uses it - else, what's the point in making the comparison with Kaio-Ken, if it doesn't even yield a similar sort of power-up?

That was the same problem I encountered. Toyo draw the BK aura with dark edges, going for the effect you mentioned, so I was underwhelmed with the lighter, almost transparent aura of the coloured version.