"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[OLKv3]

Merus says .. that in that "rosat" 1 day was 3 days

So it was months

...yes, they trained for months..

[EGonzo]

I don't know why he's doing all this buildup to MUI when we've already seen it. This is like building up Goku going Super Saiyan against Android 19.
I think it's really dumb but I'll keep my opinions to myself until the full chapter releases

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Eh, not a fan of the buildup, but I'll wait for Goku to go MUI to have a full opinion. As long as it doesn't do 'Moro has some hax around MUI that we've never seen before and it just comes out of nowhere' I think I'll be good.

[Tai Lung]

So it was months

...yes, they trained for months..

could you show it instead of saying .. just yes
Anyway, I forgot the part where Jako asks for more time

[Neon Z]

I don't know why he's doing all this buildup to MUI when we've already seen it. This is like building up Goku going Super Saiyan against Android 19.
I think it's really dumb but I'll keep my opinions to myself until the full chapter releases

The main issue is that there was an entire arc in the middle - the Broly movie - (or rather two arcs since there was most of this one too) where he was unable to use UI again. Goku actually mentions that he had trouble going SSJ in the beginning after he returns in the beginning of the Cell Saga, but we never really see that. By the time he appears he already uses it without problem, unlike here where it was actually part of the story.

[Ziegander]

So I guess now we wait to see if Goku does go MUI or doesn't by the end of the chapter.

I honestly do like these beginning pages. This is good storytelling, good pacing, good characterization. I'm a fan, Toyo, you've won me over again, but I need to see you nail the PLOTTING. What the actual hell is going to happen now?

If Goku goes MUI, then he must defeat Moro, no problems, no assistance needed, no hang ups, full stop, DO NOT LET MORO PASS GO, do not let Moro collect $200 or any other such random power up to deal with MUI. Fuck you. If MUI Goku needs help from Vegeta to Spirit Fission Moro, then MUI is bullshit.

If Goku does NOT go MUI, then these initial pages seem like a waste. Goku is remaining eerily calm, in a good way, the pay off seems to be Goku taking Merus' lesson to heart, not just his will, and his character, but his LESSON. Goku is angry, but he remains in control. That falls in line with exactly how Toyo was writing MUI to NEED to be triggered, something we DESPERATELY needed after the Tournament of Power left it wildly ambiguous to the point of being just irritatingly poor writing, how in the actual fuck Goku achieved it in the first place. Remaining calm in the face of enraging circumstances. Controlling one's emotions. That's (part) of how you achieve MUI. So if Goku is STILL unable, after achieving Omen at will, after being coached, specifically, here, this is how you do MUI, by an Angel, if Goku still can't do it, then, honestly... why did this arc even exist? I mean, you could argue, a lot of stuff has happened this arc. Vegeta revived the Namekians! And that is cool, I'm glad. But, if MUI doesn't happen, why spend all of this time fleshing out Merus' character? Why spend all those scenes between him and Goku? Why waste your own time as an author setting up a payoff that isn't going to happen? I suppose we'll see. It would feel frustrating.

BUT, if Goku does NOT go MUI, then at least an avenue is provided for other characters to contribute in some way to the fight. Like I said, if Goku DOES go MUI, then he should utterly dominate Moro and the idea that he'd need any outside help for such a fight should be so outright laughable that, if it were to happen, it should be considered pure garbage writing. MUI Goku isn't going to need Vegeta to separate Moro and 7-3, so why even have Vegeta do it? But then why have Vegeta even learn the technique in the first place? I don't know. So maybe Goku DOESN'T achieve MUI and Goku requires the help of Gohan, Piccolo, AND Vegeta to finally seal the deal? Hell, Gohan, Piccolo, and Goku were able to highly damage 7-Moro-3 without Vegeta's help. If it weren't for Moro having Piccolo's regeneration, maybe the three of them could have given Moro a bit more of a challenge than Moro would liked to have admitted. And Gohan + Goku + Piccolo + Vegeta, all of them at full strength, all of them facing off against a solitary foe is something we've never seen before, and that would be worth exploring in and of itself. It could be cool. It could be COOLER than Goku just transforming into MUI and obliterating Moro on his own. But it would require the highly forecasted event of Goku achieving MUI to NOT happen, a twist ending that, well... Toyotaro and Toriyama both seem wildly, irritatingly fond of these days.... It's more likely than people are willing to admit.

[Matches Malone]

If Goku goes MUI, then he must defeat Moro, no problems, no assistance needed, no hang ups, full stop.

What should happen and what will happen are 2 very different things. The above is what should happen. Goku goes MUI, Moro is killed then and there.

What will happen more than likely is that Goku will toy with him, and just as he's about to finish things, he loses control of MUI. That's followed up next month with Vegeta stepping in to separate him and 7-3, which he does, but something happens again before the job can be done. That's followed up in November with someone else, maybe Beerus or Buu finally putting Moro down.

[Ziegander]

If Goku goes MUI, then he must defeat Moro, no problems, no assistance needed, no hang ups, full stop.

What should happen and what will happen are 2 very different things. The above is what should happen. Goku goes MUI, Moro is killed then and there.

What will happen more than likely is that Goku will toy with him, and just as he's about to finish things, he loses control of MUI. That's followed up next month with Vegeta stepping in to separate him and 7-3, which he does, but something happens again before the job can be done. That's followed up in November with someone else, maybe Beerus or Buu finally putting Moro down.

I will wash my hands of Dragonball at that point, unfortunately, I just won't be able to do it anymore. I want Toyo to be a better writer than that. I hope he can be. We'll see.

[Matches Malone]

I will wash my hands of Dragonball at that point, unfortunately, I just won't be able to do it anymore.

I don't think I could ever wash my hands of DB, as nothing new can take away the greatness of the original material and the BOG movie. With that said, I've personally lowered my expectations a lot since Minus and RF, so nothing will surprise me at this point. I've said multiple times that this arc is taking things in the right direction, but between the pacing issues and a potentially bad ending, I may take that statement back.

[OLKv3]

...yes, they trained for months..

could you show it instead of saying .. just yes
Anyway, I forgot the part where Jako asks for more time

It's been explained for you already. Two months passed outside so 6 months passed for Goku and Merus.

[Kinokima]

Well either way I kind of doubt will find out until next time looking at the pacing of this chapter

[Kagari]

So I guess now we wait to see if Goku does go MUI or doesn't by the end of the chapter.

I honestly do like these beginning pages. This is good storytelling, good pacing, good characterization. I'm a fan, Toyo, you've won me over again, but I need to see you nail the PLOTTING. What the actual hell is going to happen now?

If Goku goes MUI, then he must defeat Moro, no problems, no assistance needed, no hang ups, full stop, DO NOT LET MORO PASS GO, do not let Moro collect $200 or any other such random power up to deal with MUI. Fuck you. If MUI Goku needs help from Vegeta to Spirit Fission Moro, then MUI is bullshit.

If Goku does NOT go MUI, then these initial pages seem like a waste. Goku is remaining eerily calm, in a good way, the pay off seems to be Goku taking Merus' lesson to heart, not just his will, and his character, but his LESSON. Goku is angry, but he remains in control. That falls in line with exactly how Toyo was writing MUI to NEED to be triggered, something we DESPERATELY needed after the Tournament of Power left it wildly ambiguous to the point of being just irritatingly poor writing, how in the actual fuck Goku achieved it in the first place. Remaining calm in the face of enraging circumstances. Controlling one's emotions. That's (part) of how you achieve MUI. So if Goku is STILL unable, after achieving Omen at will, after being coached, specifically, here, this is how you do MUI, by an Angel, if Goku still can't do it, then, honestly... why did this arc even exist? I mean, you could argue, a lot of stuff has happened this arc. Vegeta revived the Namekians! And that is cool, I'm glad. But, if MUI doesn't happen, why spend all of this time fleshing out Merus' character? Why spend all those scenes between him and Goku? Why waste your own time as an author setting up a payoff that isn't going to happen? I suppose we'll see. It would feel frustrating.

BUT, if Goku does NOT go MUI, then at least an avenue is provided for other characters to contribute in some way to the fight. Like I said, if Goku DOES go MUI, then he should utterly dominate Moro and the idea that he'd need any outside help for such a fight should be so outright laughable that, if it were to happen, it should be considered pure garbage writing. MUI Goku isn't going to need Vegeta to separate Moro and 7-3, so why even have Vegeta do it? But then why have Vegeta even learn the technique in the first place? I don't know. So maybe Goku DOESN'T achieve MUI and Goku requires the help of Gohan, Piccolo, AND Vegeta to finally seal the deal? Hell, Gohan, Piccolo, and Goku were able to highly damage 7-Moro-3 without Vegeta's help. If it weren't for Moro having Piccolo's regeneration, maybe the three of them could have given Moro a bit more of a challenge than Moro would liked to have admitted. And Gohan + Goku + Piccolo + Vegeta, all of them at full strength, all of them facing off against a solitary foe is something we've never seen before, and that would be worth exploring in and of itself. It could be cool. It could be COOLER than Goku just transforming into MUI and obliterating Moro on his own. But it would require the highly forecasted event of Goku achieving MUI to NOT happen, a twist ending that, well... Toyotaro and Toriyama both seem wildly, irritatingly fond of these days.... It's more likely than people are willing to admit.

I think it's obvious Goku isn't going to win. DB hasn't been about individual victories since the Cell arc and before that Piccolo/Daimao. Plus, Gohan, Vegeta and the others are being healed and Kuririn was on his way to the battlefield. They'll probably come back for a group effort of some sort.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I will wash my hands of Dragonball at that point, unfortunately, I just won't be able to do it anymore. I want Toyo to be a better writer than that. I hope he can be. We'll see.

I feel like commitments like this, which are made before the event on the basis of things that people want to happen, are responsible for a lot of the animus against the Super Manga that I've seen from fans generally.

I'd advise on just letting the story play out without particular attachment to, or investment in, a predetermined outcome, and then judge whether you like it or not afterwards.

[Trouser]

I don't know why but this saga does feel like "filler". Like none of this matters. I can't shake that feeling.

[Kagari]

I don't know why but this saga does feel like "filler". Like none of this matters. I can't shake that feeling.

That's been evident since two years ago.

[OLKv3]

I don't know why but this saga does feel like "filler". Like none of this matters. I can't shake that feeling.

Goku mastering UI matters a lot

[Kagari]

I don't know why but this saga does feel like "filler". Like none of this matters. I can't shake that feeling.

Goku mastering UI matters a lot

I'm willing to bet he'll "forget" how to do it at the end.

[Miracles]

I don't know why but this saga does feel like "filler". Like none of this matters. I can't shake that feeling.

Goku mastering UI matters a lot

I'm willing to bet he'll "forget" how to do it at the end.

I don't think that will be the case this time. Merus said Goku's training is completed in regards to UI.

[Kagari]

Goku mastering UI matters a lot

I'm willing to bet he'll "forget" how to do it at the end.

I don't think that will be the case this time. Merus said Goku's training is completed in regards to UI.

Additionally, the manga has stuff the anime never even touched upon or did their own version of. Toyo's been allowed to do his own thing for a while and this is no different.

[DiscountDabi]

Ok, so I saw this when I opened the Viz app and this really bothers me

Spoiler:

Specifically the last part where it says “But how can they do anything when Moro can Drain them of their energy just by being near Him”. This really bothers me because apparently he doesn’t do this anymore for some reason. I mean he came to earth with the specific intention to eat people’s energy. Yet he hasn’t eaten a single persons energy since he got there. The only thing he ate was 7-3 which only goes to the trend of the fact that Moro has killed More of his own Men than he has anyone else. Its really bothersome because if it wasn’t for the immense plot armour Goku and Vegeta would have Died on Namek.