"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Matches Malone
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:28 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:21 pm
Vegeta was born in AGE 732 (if you go by the guidebooks) and the planet is destroyed in AGE 739. That's a viable seven-year gap for Tarble and many other Saiyans to be born. So I must ask, what about it "does not make sense"?
It can work, the issue I have is how they went about it. Someone as major as Vegeta having a brother after all these years should've been handled far better than it was. When Goku's brother showed up, it changed everything. Roshi's sister brought plenty of things to the table. Vegeta's brother though ? he was just there. what was the point ?
BWri wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:20 pm
Everyone's entitled to feel how they feel and voice their opinions how they see fit, but I think too many of us have been burned before by judging things before we have the full picture.
The reason people are upset is because they're trying to drag out an already dragged out fight. The problem is we've had so many fake outs already, yet we may have another one ? that was never going to go well. You can get away with one fake out, but 4 ? now maybe 5 ?
Last edited by Matches Malone on Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:30 pm

I saw your other post. I'm trying to keep this short so to avoid derailing the thread. I asked him out of curiosity and I intend to reply you both when the opportunity presents itself in a more adequate thread/situation.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:31 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:28 pm
Grimlock wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:21 pm
Vegeta was born in AGE 732 (if you go by the guidebooks) and the planet is destroyed in AGE 739. That's a viable seven-year gap for Tarble and many other Saiyans to be born. So I must ask, what about it "does not make sense"?
It can work, the issue I have is how they went about it. Someone as major as Vegeta having a brother after all these years should've been handled far better than it was. When Goku's brother showed up, it changed everything. Roshi's sister brought plenty of things to the table. Vegeta's brother though ? he was just there. what was the point ?
A gag. He was just meant to be funny. Not that it was done well just I am pretty sure they thought it was funny that Vegeta's brother would be weaker than even Raditz

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:32 pm

about spoilers ...
with cell goku gave him a senzu bean because goku was flatly sure that gohan would win him even so .. risking zenkai power but his mistake was that he did not know gohan and his peaceful nature ... I think that here marks a writing error already that the truth goku if he knew gohan not to think about that possibility ...
However, it marks a lesson for goku by putting the lives of others at risk for his selfish decisions ...

now I have not criticized his decisions in later sagas ... such as trusting goten and trunks (he not do never currently) or putting the universes at risk with his suggestion of the tournament because at the end of the account he did not know anything about this And he had decided to save them at the end of the tournament with super Dragon Balls and they were very different circumstances from cell

but now they literally refer to that again ... with the only difference that he himself relies on his abilities, however, it literally makes goku's guilt worthless in that saga ... because he has literally done the same :crazy:
Moro currently shouldn't have zenkai ... but he could explode the planet or wait until the ultra instinct runs out ... :think:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:35 pm

Yeah, I have the feeling that they'll do something like have Goku jump in for the kill...only for MUI to run out for some reason. They'll find any reason they can to extend this arc.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:43 pm

I've just seen this rather compelling theory that this act of callousness is what causes the apparent awkward schism between Goku and his friends that caused him to cut off contact with them for years by EoZ. Everyone except for Chi-Chi and Goten collectively decide to just turn their backs on him for one selfish decision too many. That could actually be effective drama but is almost certainly too serious and angsty for Dragon Ball.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:43 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:21 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:41 pm
In context a "younger brother" does not make sense because the planet was going to be destroyed
Vegeta was born in AGE 732 (if you go by the guidebooks) and the planet is destroyed in AGE 739. That's a viable seven-year gap for Tarble and many other Saiyans to be born. So I must ask, what about it "does not make sense"?
beacuse vegeta is 5 years older than goku .... in the canon
when was he banished to another planet? When he was a baby or when he was 3 years old like Goku?
tarble looks much younger than gohan
because they just didn't take it into account instead of going for goku to earth etc etc

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Hellspawn28 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:49 pm

I still like Moro as a villain because he does not use brute force and is not a big muscular character like Broly, Jiren, Yi Xing Long, etc. I do hope Moro has more tricks up his hat and wins against Goku. It would be cool if Moro does win against Goku and defeat Beerus. Allowing Champa to come in and fight for his brother. It would be something interesting for once.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Ziegander » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:57 pm

Ugh. I'm already eating my words. There's already a new translation summary, and it makes Goku look even stupider than before...
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:50 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:43 pm
I've just seen this rather compelling theory that this act of callousness is what causes the apparent awkward schism between Goku and his friends that caused him to cut off contact with them for years by EoZ. Everyone except for Chi-Chi and Goten collectively decide to just turn their backs on him for one selfish decision too many. That could actually be effective drama but is almost certainly too serious and angsty for Dragon Ball.
:lol:

This is honestly hilarious.
But it would have to be the final arc of DBS for this to even be a bit plausible.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:04 pm

I'm more than willing to indulge in wild and unlikely speculation, so here goes:

What if Goku's intention is to get Merus back?

Say, he pushes Moro to a Vegetto-esque 'you've got one option left' situation; Moro manages to use the detached hand to copy Merus's power - oop, surprise! He did a complete back-up of Merus. He uses the Angelic power, and Goku and he fight each other to a standstill; then Vegeta gets an opening somehow and splits them off, so we have Moro, OG73-I, and a new copy of Merus.

Goku's satisfied that it worked out, and then (insert resolution of choice).

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Block88 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:04 pm

Man folks really luv to defend bad writing huh
Goku doing this shit is utterly stupid no matter what happens folks pretending goku never want to finish off the villain is ignoring how he wanted cell dead when gohan was beating him or when he killed yakon or if he had to kill Dabura to turn krillin and Piccolo back.

Ya know what’s even worse Goku previously told vegeta to kill Black already in the manga and latter tried to prevent Zamasu and Black from fusing
Yet here he is pulling the same dumb ass as if it didn’t come back to bite him previously

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by goku the krump dancer » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:17 pm

All I wanna know is, what the hell is Toyotaro trying prove by having Goku do this again? This whole final battle has pretty much been between Goku and more anyway, with a small interference from Vegeta, which ultimately amounted to nothing.. All Merus did was break the Shang Tsung orbs so Moro couldn’t be haxxed anymore. The bean didn’t fix the copy orbs but just replenished his energy.. Again what is Toto trying to convey here?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:23 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:43 pm
I've just seen this rather compelling theory that this act of callousness is what causes the apparent awkward schism between Goku and his friends that caused him to cut off contact with them for years by EoZ. Everyone except for Chi-Chi and Goten collectively decide to just turn their backs on him for one selfish decision too many. That could actually be effective drama but is almost certainly too serious and angsty for Dragon Ball.

Except Bulma was mad at him for not coming around more lol


Anyways even if Goku doesn’t believe that Moro will do the right thing but is just giving him a chance I still don’t like it. It could backfire in his face if UI runs out, anything can happen. No matter what Goku’s reason he could be making the situation more dangerous. Why take that risk? There is no possible explanation that makes it okay for me. And it turning out okay doesn’t make me feel better about it. Instead it’s like Goku is awarded for bad decisions

It was the same with the TOP with Goku reminding Zeno about the tournament even though Beerus warned him Zeno was dangerous. Yes it worked out, in fact it worked out for the best in the end. But I feel that’s my issue with Super. Instead of having Goku learn something, things just always work out for the best because he is the main character. And I guess I don’t really like that type of storytelling.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:13 pm

Magnificent Ponta wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:04 pm
I'm more than willing to indulge in wild and unlikely speculation, so here goes:

What if Goku's intention is to get Merus back?

Say, he pushes Moro to a Vegetto-esque 'you've got one option left' situation; Moro manages to use the detached hand to copy Merus's power - oop, surprise! He did a complete back-up of Merus. He uses the Angelic power, and Goku and he fight each other to a standstill; then Vegeta gets an opening somehow and splits them off, so we have Moro, OG73-I, and a new copy of Merus.

Goku's satisfied that it worked out, and then (insert resolution of choice).
I have considered the possibility of Vegeta ripping Merus from the unsealed gem but considered it too unlikely to say anything...but who knows? That creates a weird implication for 73's ability; keeping actual living beings trapped for 30 minutes until "releasing" their souls...but DB's gone weirder, I guess.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:19 pm

Kinokima wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:23 pm
LoganForkHands73 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:43 pm
I've just seen this rather compelling theory that this act of callousness is what causes the apparent awkward schism between Goku and his friends that caused him to cut off contact with them for years by EoZ. Everyone except for Chi-Chi and Goten collectively decide to just turn their backs on him for one selfish decision too many. That could actually be effective drama but is almost certainly too serious and angsty for Dragon Ball.

Except Bulma was mad at him for not coming around more lol
In this hypothetical, incredibly unlikely scenario where this all happens, presumably Bulma and the others forgive Goku after so long, but Goku assumes they still don't want to see him. Things change and people move on. IRL, I'm sure everyone has melodramatically sworn to break up with their best friends forever over some petty squabble, only to end up missing them after so much time has passed.

Again, I don't see this actually happening but consider that Bulma, Pilaf and the other non-combatant Dragon Teamsters are all watching this unfold on TV up on the Lookout. They're all probably having the same reaction as Krillin and Jaco, wondering what the hell Goku could be thinking. And if Gohan wakes up and finds out, Goku's probably gonna be in even deeper shit. Not gonna lie, I wouldn't be hugely comfortable around Goku knowing firsthand that he made yet another selfish choice to risk everybody's lives for his bizarre warrior principles. When Goku asked Krillin to spare Vegeta, he promised that would be the only selfish wish he ever makes... guess Goku shouldn't be able to ride Kinto'un anymore since he's broken that promise more times than Bane has broken Batman's spine.

But I digress, the more likely reality is everyone just shrugs and goes "well, that's Goku".
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:37 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:19 pm
Kinokima wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:23 pm
LoganForkHands73 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:43 pm
I've just seen this rather compelling theory that this act of callousness is what causes the apparent awkward schism between Goku and his friends that caused him to cut off contact with them for years by EoZ. Everyone except for Chi-Chi and Goten collectively decide to just turn their backs on him for one selfish decision too many. That could actually be effective drama but is almost certainly too serious and angsty for Dragon Ball.

Except Bulma was mad at him for not coming around more lol
In this hypothetical, incredibly unlikely scenario where this all happens, presumably Bulma and the others forgive Goku after so long, but Goku assumes they still don't want to see him. Things change and people move on. IRL, I'm sure everyone has melodramatically sworn to break up with their best friends forever over some petty squabble, only to end up missing them after so much time has passed.

Again, I don't see this actually happening but consider that Bulma, Pilaf and the other non-combatant Dragon Teamsters are all watching this unfold on TV up on the Lookout. They're all probably having the same reaction as Krillin and Jaco, wondering what the hell Goku could be thinking. And if Gohan wakes up and finds out, Goku's probably gonna be in even deeper shit. Not gonna lie, I wouldn't be hugely comfortable around Goku knowing firsthand that he made yet another selfish choice to risk everybody's lives for his bizarre warrior principles. When Goku asked Krillin to spare Vegeta, he promised that would be the only selfish wish he ever makes... guess Goku shouldn't be able to ride Kinto'un anymore since he's broken that promise more times than Bane has broken Batman's spine.

But I digress, the more likely reality is everyone just shrugs and goes "well, that's Goku".

The funny thing is I hated that moment at the End of Z. After not seeing everyone for 5 years apparently they have Goku go off again in the end

That’s one of those things I’d welcome a retcon of. And they are almost at that point if not past the 5 year gap.

It’s even a retcon that can be easily explained away. Bulma said 5 years...she was just exaggerating and meant 5 months

But now I digress as well :lol:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:46 pm

Kinokima wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:37 pm

The funny thing is I hated that moment at the End of Z. After not seeing everyone for 5 years apparently they have Goku go off again in the end

That’s one of those things I’d welcome a retcon of. And they are almost at that point if not past the 5 year gap.

It’s even a retcon that can be easily explained away. Bulma said 5 years...she was just exaggerating and meant 5 months

But now I digress as well :lol:
It's certainly one of those bittersweet things, how the Z-Fighters can go years without seeing each other. It's uncomfortably similar to real life in that respect.

And yeah I think that's basically what they'll do, though I'd probably up it to at least a year or two considering how Goku is shocked at how much older Bulma has gotten.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by precita » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:04 pm

EOZ makes sense if they had no villain to unite them all that time. After all Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu seemingly had no contact with the others for the 7 year gap in the Boo arc.

But with Trunks and Goten being close friends it is hard to imagine Goku and Bulma's family would not interact, or Krillin's family. Even Yamcha manages to stay in contact all this time given he's shown in both EOZ and in the Boo arc with everyone.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:05 pm

Kinokima wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:23 pm
It was the same with the TOP with Goku reminding Zeno about the tournament even though Beerus warned him Zeno was dangerous. Yes it worked out, in fact it worked out for the best in the end. But I feel that’s my issue with Super. Instead of having Goku learn something, things just always work out for the best because he is the main character. And I guess I don’t really like that type of storytelling.
I can't say it was the same ... goku's proposal was to make a tournament like the one in Champa in which there really wasn't a greater danger than changing the universe ... zen-oh he's not a villain and he considered him his friend outside of the fact that he knew the danger about the power zen-oh he did not think about how naively destructive it was zenchan on the contrary when he got along with the thought of the possibilities of being able to provide a show of combat between universes at the same time he meet new warriors
the safest thing is that if Zen-oh had not been kind to him he would not have considered it as a possibility

his responsibility is very indirect in any case ...
In this case, Moro is a villain who will kill or destroy everything with the opportunity he has and Goku knows that ... if something happens it is his direct responsibility

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