"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Ziegander » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:02 pm

Kataphrut wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:59 pm
Hey, we got a new candidate for Moro's level 3 in FighterZ. That's cool.

So this is how Vegeta becomes useful again, yeah? This is set up so he can use his new power and not have it be a total wash.
Which still seems dumb to me?

If he got the new power but then couldn't use it on Moro because Moro was too fast and too strong after eating 7-3, how is Vegeta going to find a way to use it on Angel Moro? I guess with UI Goku's help, somehow... still feels dumb to me, though.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JewyB » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:06 pm

Kataphrut wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:59 pm
Hey, we got a new candidate for Moro's level 3 in FighterZ. That's cool.

So this is how Vegeta becomes useful again, yeah? This is set up so he can use his new power and not have it be a total wash.
Moro's beam assist or gtfo.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DBTurnip » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:13 pm

Thanks, Toyotaro, you made the fanbase hate the MAIN CHARACTER!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by FlpShimizu » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:25 pm

DBTurnip wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:13 pm
Thanks, Toyotaro, you made the fanbase hate the MAIN CHARACTER!
It´s not hard to make the DB fanbase hate anything
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DBTurnip » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:36 pm

FlpShimizu wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:25 pm
DBTurnip wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:13 pm
Thanks, Toyotaro, you made the fanbase hate the MAIN CHARACTER!
It´s not hard to make the DB fanbase hate anything
I know, but this time, it's entirely justified, thanks to Toyotaro's bullshit writing.

And now, a LOT of people will hate Goku for this. And by hate, they want MORO to win at this point, but sadly know that EoZ stops Goku from suffering the consequences of such acts.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by theherodjl » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:52 pm

I'm still of the opinion that Merus wasn't actually erased, merely recalled back to Daishinkan as a surprise lesson by his father.
It would be a lot better than Merus simply fading from existence forever because everyone refused to take out Moro when there were opportunities to do so.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:52 pm

DBTurnip wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:36 pm
FlpShimizu wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:25 pm
DBTurnip wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:13 pm
Thanks, Toyotaro, you made the fanbase hate the MAIN CHARACTER!
It´s not hard to make the DB fanbase hate anything
I know, but this time, it's entirely justified, thanks to Toyotaro's bullshit writing.

And now, a LOT of people will hate Goku for this. And by hate, they want MORO to win at this point, but sadly know that EoZ stops Goku from suffering the consequences of such acts.
No one wants Moro to win

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:55 pm

Regardless of the fact that I hate his character, does anyone else agree that merus is just an excuse to increase the power levels? because as a development in the personality of goku it is not really serving nothing .. .too the android that looks like hit

the best characters are currently the yadrats

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DBTurnip » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:00 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:52 pm
I'm still of the opinion that Merus wasn't actually erased, merely recalled back to Daishinkan as a surprise lesson by his father.
It would be a lot better than Merus simply fading from existence forever because everyone refused to take out Moro when there were opportunities to do so.
That's also an issue, if that's the case.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:00 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:55 pm
Regardless of the fact that I hate his character, does anyone else agree that merus is just an excuse to increase the power levels? because as a development in the personality of goku it is not really serving nothing .. .too the android that looks like hit

the best characters are currently the yadrats
As much as a like Merus, I feel like his presence has been used a plot device. A horrible one.

Seriously, Moro's character is has no original personality, his henchmen had more personality despite having little screen time and most of them not talking that much on panel and 7-3 was basically a plot device for the story to progress into ridiculous territory.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:09 pm

If Moro does get seal away, he would be the first villain to be locked up. To me, it's a cool idea because I do get bored of the main villain always being killed over and over. It feels refreshing to me.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:48 pm

UI Peter wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:12 am
TheMikado wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:52 am
Matches Malone wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:49 am


Definitely, but when it came to fighting and overall importance, he was basically what Yamcha was in Z. Super has done so many great things with him, yet all his fans do is complain.
No GT Vegeta was much better. He moved on from being Gokus sidekick and found his own identity independent of Goku. If you’re a true Vegeta fan then you would understand him being a stubborn prideful Maverick is much more central to the character than any empty win or new technique.
GT Vegeta was an objectively worse character than his DBS anime counterpart (despite his own writing problems). The funny thing is, despite spending less screentime with Goku in GT, GT Vegeta was actually more obsessed with Goku than his DBS counterpart lol (like in that cringey scene in the 17 arc where Vegeta throws a temper tantrum over the fact that everyone values Goku over him lol:)

https://twitter.com/MJxTV/status/100244 ... 74881?s=19

And Especially in that pointless "Heart of a Prince" episode of GT where he's shown brooding over Goku's superiority and then decides to cheat his way into SSJ4 just to catch up to him (in contrast to DBS Anime Vegeta earning his own unique power-up through a motive that had nothing to do with Goku). So no, he didn't make a new identity away from Goku at all in GT.
This is literally the worst take I’ve ever seen on the episode “Heart of the Prince”

In it, Vegeta laments that his only purpose in life is to serve as a foil to show how powerful Goku is. It’s like if the most Meta takes of a character in a work ever written. Vegeta reviews his entire experience with Goku and then says EXACTLY what the audience has relegated his character to be and then decidedly determines that this will NOT be his role. In that moment Vegeta literally transcends his existence as a created fictional character and his character role. Obviously this is within the context of writing, but the point still stands. An equivalent would be Yamcha wondering if his nothing but a joke to everyone now and then deciding to do something about it.

Anyway, Vegeta’s role as father and family man who decides not to tag along with Goku at all and live completely independent of him fits far far far better with End of Z. Think about it. They hadn’t really talked in 10 years and then suddenly in Super they are hanging around each other every week. It’s weird and inconsistent from the original run across the board for all the characters. And finally Vegeta is the one who suggests fusion with Goku, placing saving the world above his own pride. An acknowledgement that he’s come full circle and an indication that the Earth is in good hands when Goku leaves.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:14 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:09 pm
Super is still better than GT, and I'm sure Toei will be able to fix this arc. Honestly, the Super anime was infinitely more enjoyable, just look at some episodes of the ToP arc. There were huge crowds of people watching it live in city stadiums. The Super anime really brought people together, it nailed down what makes Dragon Ball entertaining to the masses.

Regardless, at least GT didn't pretend its villains were redeemable. Because, well... none of them were. Toyotaro is trying so hard to be a smart writer by making the ending convoluted and full of twists, when he should just kill Moro already. This stupid goat has no personality or motivation anyway, he reminds me of Super 17. Who actually cares if he dies without getting a chance at redemption? If Moro died a few months ago, would anyone really have said "Man, I'm so angry Goku killed Moro without even offering him a chance to atone for his sins!!"...
When did TOEI ever fix anything? DBS anime It is probably one of the most inconsistent writings in the series. People constantly talk about how anime was better because of the entertainment factor, but proceed to complain at the first inconsistency seen.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Totamo » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:35 pm

You guys do know that this is only the second villain introduced in modern dragon ball, right?

Everyone else has just been an antagonist, not a villain.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:41 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:14 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:09 pm
Super is still better than GT, and I'm sure Toei will be able to fix this arc. Honestly, the Super anime was infinitely more enjoyable, just look at some episodes of the ToP arc. There were huge crowds of people watching it live in city stadiums. The Super anime really brought people together, it nailed down what makes Dragon Ball entertaining to the masses.

Regardless, at least GT didn't pretend its villains were redeemable. Because, well... none of them were. Toyotaro is trying so hard to be a smart writer by making the ending convoluted and full of twists, when he should just kill Moro already. This stupid goat has no personality or motivation anyway, he reminds me of Super 17. Who actually cares if he dies without getting a chance at redemption? If Moro died a few months ago, would anyone really have said "Man, I'm so angry Goku killed Moro without even offering him a chance to atone for his sins!!"...
When did TOEI ever fix anything? DBS anime It is probably one of the most inconsistent writings in the series. People constantly talk about how anime was better because of the entertainment factor, but proceed to complain at the first inconsistency seen.
goku base and laser on fnf: fixed up
DB Minus: fixed up
Broly: fixed up

tell the stories again to provide better continuity rather than just speculation between sagas etc

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:02 pm

TheMikado wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:48 pm
UI Peter wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:12 am
TheMikado wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:52 am


No GT Vegeta was much better. He moved on from being Gokus sidekick and found his own identity independent of Goku. If you’re a true Vegeta fan then you would understand him being a stubborn prideful Maverick is much more central to the character than any empty win or new technique.
GT Vegeta was an objectively worse character than his DBS anime counterpart (despite his own writing problems). The funny thing is, despite spending less screentime with Goku in GT, GT Vegeta was actually more obsessed with Goku than his DBS counterpart lol (like in that cringey scene in the 17 arc where Vegeta throws a temper tantrum over the fact that everyone values Goku over him lol:)

https://twitter.com/MJxTV/status/100244 ... 74881?s=19

And Especially in that pointless "Heart of a Prince" episode of GT where he's shown brooding over Goku's superiority and then decides to cheat his way into SSJ4 just to catch up to him (in contrast to DBS Anime Vegeta earning his own unique power-up through a motive that had nothing to do with Goku). So no, he didn't make a new identity away from Goku at all in GT.
This is literally the worst take I’ve ever seen on the episode “Heart of the Prince”

In it, Vegeta laments that his only purpose in life is to serve as a foil to show how powerful Goku is. It’s like if the most Meta takes of a character in a work ever written. Vegeta reviews his entire experience with Goku and then says EXACTLY what the audience has relegated his character to be and then decidedly determines that this will NOT be his role. In that moment Vegeta literally transcends his existence as a created fictional character and his character role. Obviously this is within the context of writing, but the point still stands. An equivalent would be Yamcha wondering if his nothing but a joke to everyone now and then deciding to do something about it.

Anyway, Vegeta’s role as father and family man who decides not to tag along with Goku at all and live completely independent of him fits far far far better with End of Z. Think about it. They hadn’t really talked in 10 years and then suddenly in Super they are hanging around each other every week. It’s weird and inconsistent from the original run across the board for all the characters. And finally Vegeta is the one who suggests fusion with Goku, placing saving the world above his own pride. An acknowledgement that he’s come full circle and an indication that the Earth is in good hands when Goku leaves.
the point of vegeta's development in super is that it is wrong to always depend on goku ... because he will not always be the winner of each battle, something that he understands on the arrival of beerus and therefore he cannot stop training now he started his rivalry again to improve being now much healthier ...

In GT he leaves his obsession with goku ... to dedicate himself to having a peaceful life but that would cost him dearly because he literally ended up being possessed and used by an enemy who overcame him for not training enough ... he realizes the mistake that He committed so he would train hard again although without many results later on ... he got the ssj4 too easy with the help of bulma

now they both have problems ...
In GT his little participation despite that he is a warrior who is always prepared ... he was humiliated even by nuova shenron at the climax of story
In super currently that vegeta hesitates so much in killing an enemy I find it worrisome makes him too similar to goku

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by shadd21 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:27 pm

I'm sure Beerus could still oneshot Moro :roll:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Block88 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:05 am

Tai Lung wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:41 pm
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:14 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:09 pm
Super is still better than GT, and I'm sure Toei will be able to fix this arc. Honestly, the Super anime was infinitely more enjoyable, just look at some episodes of the ToP arc. There were huge crowds of people watching it live in city stadiums. The Super anime really brought people together, it nailed down what makes Dragon Ball entertaining to the masses.

Regardless, at least GT didn't pretend its villains were redeemable. Because, well... none of them were. Toyotaro is trying so hard to be a smart writer by making the ending convoluted and full of twists, when he should just kill Moro already. This stupid goat has no personality or motivation anyway, he reminds me of Super 17. Who actually cares if he dies without getting a chance at redemption? If Moro died a few months ago, would anyone really have said "Man, I'm so angry Goku killed Moro without even offering him a chance to atone for his sins!!"...
When did TOEI ever fix anything? DBS anime It is probably one of the most inconsistent writings in the series. People constantly talk about how anime was better because of the entertainment factor, but proceed to complain at the first inconsistency seen.
goku base and laser on fnf: fixed up
DB Minus: fixed up
Broly: fixed up

tell the stories again to provide better continuity rather than just speculation between sagas etc
Not really the anime fixing a few hiccups doesn’t fix its own fuckups
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:14 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:09 pm
Super is still better than GT, and I'm sure Toei will be able to fix this arc. Honestly, the Super anime was infinitely more enjoyable, just look at some episodes of the ToP arc. There were huge crowds of people watching it live in city stadiums. The Super anime really brought people together, it nailed down what makes Dragon Ball entertaining to the masses.

Regardless, at least GT didn't pretend its villains were redeemable. Because, well... none of them were. Toyotaro is trying so hard to be a smart writer by making the ending convoluted and full of twists, when he should just kill Moro already. This stupid goat has no personality or motivation anyway, he reminds me of Super 17. Who actually cares if he dies without getting a chance at redemption? If Moro died a few months ago, would anyone really have said "Man, I'm so angry Goku killed Moro without even offering him a chance to atone for his sins!!"...
When did TOEI ever fix anything? DBS anime It is probably one of the most inconsistent writings in the series. People constantly talk about how anime was better because of the entertainment factor, but proceed to complain at the first inconsistency seen.
Besides a few things both anime and manga are shit arguing which ones better is like arguing which brand of junk food is good

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by UI Peter » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:58 am

TheMikado wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:48 pm
UI Peter wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:12 am
TheMikado wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:52 am


No GT Vegeta was much better. He moved on from being Gokus sidekick and found his own identity independent of Goku. If you’re a true Vegeta fan then you would understand him being a stubborn prideful Maverick is much more central to the character than any empty win or new technique.
GT Vegeta was an objectively worse character than his DBS anime counterpart (despite his own writing problems). The funny thing is, despite spending less screentime with Goku in GT, GT Vegeta was actually more obsessed with Goku than his DBS counterpart lol (like in that cringey scene in the 17 arc where Vegeta throws a temper tantrum over the fact that everyone values Goku over him lol:)

https://twitter.com/MJxTV/status/100244 ... 74881?s=19

And Especially in that pointless "Heart of a Prince" episode of GT where he's shown brooding over Goku's superiority and then decides to cheat his way into SSJ4 just to catch up to him (in contrast to DBS Anime Vegeta earning his own unique power-up through a motive that had nothing to do with Goku). So no, he didn't make a new identity away from Goku at all in GT.
This is literally the worst take I’ve ever seen on the episode “Heart of the Prince”

In it, Vegeta laments that his only purpose in life is to serve as a foil to show how powerful Goku is. It’s like if the most Meta takes of a character in a work ever written. Vegeta reviews his entire experience with Goku and then says EXACTLY what the audience has relegated his character to be and then decidedly determines that this will NOT be his role. In that moment Vegeta literally transcends his existence as a created fictional character and his character role. Obviously this is within the context of writing, but the point still stands. An equivalent would be Yamcha wondering if his nothing but a joke to everyone now and then deciding to do something about it.

Anyway, Vegeta’s role as father and family man who decides not to tag along with Goku at all and live completely independent of him fits far far far better with End of Z. Think about it. They hadn’t really talked in 10 years and then suddenly in Super they are hanging around each other every week. It’s weird and inconsistent from the original run across the board for all the characters. And finally Vegeta is the one who suggests fusion with Goku, placing saving the world above his own pride. An acknowledgement that he’s come full circle and an indication that the Earth is in good hands when Goku leaves.
You are projecting far more meaning and theme into it than there actually is in there lol.

"Vegeta reviews his entire experience with Goku and then says EXACTLY what the audience has relegated his character to be and then decidedly determines that this will NOT be his role."

Yet he ended up still being exactly that in the Shadow Dragon arc lol. So said "development" in GT went nowhere. And your claim about GT Vegeta not wanting to follow Goku anymore is clearly false considering how he went out of his way to reach SSJ4 just to catch up to him.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:25 am

Ziegander wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:34 pm
After the Tournament of Power there were so many interesting directions they could have taken Dragon Ball, but this Moro arc has to be potentially the worst direction on the table.
This applies to a lot of what we've been getting. BOG kicked the door open for the possibilities the franchise had, but for some reason they followed it up with RF. We get to finally see what an alternate universe looks like, only for the arc to be a pointless tournament, and an underwhelming one at that. We get who I consider to be one of the best villains in Zamasu, but instead of exploring his universe, we're stuck in Trunks' bare bones timeline. That's followed up by a tournament that literally wasted 5 of the 12 universes, while the tournament it self was just one big fight with little to no story. We're told the franchise's 20th movie is getting someone hand picked by Toriyama in Shintani, which was a breath of fresh air, only for the whole thing to be wasted on Broly...for the FOURTH time.

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