"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[ZodiacBeast]

After thinking about it for a while, I think I would have preferred that:

• Moro copies all of the Z-Fighters present - partly because it's practical (hey, any additional strength and abilities are good) and partly because he wants to insult Goku and Vegeta.
• Merus' fight with Moro, Goku using MUI and Goku giving Moro the Senzu remain the same, but Goku grabs the arm before Moro can reattach it, leading to Moro freaking out.
• Goku then proceeds to destroy the arm and kill Moro alongside Vegeta.

I think this would have made these last few chapters a little better, but I might be alone in that opinion.

[Matches Malone]

He got the ssj4 too easy with the help of bulma.

Bulma helped him turn into a great ape, not Ssj4. Anyone can turn into a great ape, they just didn't have time to wait for a full moon and pull his tail out. Reaching Ssj4 requires the Saiyan to turn into a Golden ape and regain consciousness of themselves within that sate, which Bulma had nothing to do with. The way Vegeta reached Ssj4 is no different from how Goku reached it.

[Kataphrut]

I know there's plenty of stupidity to go around in the sumptuous buffet this latest chapter has provided us, but has anyone pointed out that it looks like Goku is standing there gawking at Alaskan Bull Worm Moro in his full Ultra Instinct form when he gets hit by the mouth blast? Did he even try to dodge?

Great example of 'moving without thinking' there, Goku.

[Skar]

Sailor Moon Crystal had similar production issues despite it being bi-monthly. And most new series starts as manga in Japan. There are very few anime originals that isn’t based on a manga or legecy series.

That and Toei actually didn’t have much say in Super’s rush production since the actual owners of Dragon Ball pushed the series so fast. Toei just didn’t help with the issue.

Is there any evidence that the actual owners pushed the series so fast? This Toei employee that AnimeAjay talked to didn't mention that and it sounded like Toei was talking responsibility:

Spoiler:

"When we started Dragon Ball Super, Toei Animation thought it could be made easily. Because they have made it before and have succeeded. But that was a mistake. They did not make enough preparations, which caused trouble many times. And they negatively affected the overall quality. As you know, the quality of Dragon Ball Super was low. Three story arcs were needed to rebuild it. Toei Animation has learned a lesson. Dragonball is not an easy title, so it cannot be made without enough preparation. They need to have enough time to make it again. Please think positively that this year is absolutely necessary for preparation."

I don't think it's a coincidence that two of their most popular franchises, DB and Sailor Moon, had poor production during their revivals because I haven't heard this happening to Toei's newer franchises. My argument was that a completely new series is unlikely to last long or standout if the production was that poor because not many anime last over two cours. I'm sure there are some with an equally bad production but I never seen them on any best of list when I look for something to watch. What happened with DBS definitely wasn't ideal since they admit they want to avoid it from happening again.

[SupremeKai25]

Super is still better than GT, and I'm sure Toei will be able to fix this arc. Honestly, the Super anime was infinitely more enjoyable, just look at some episodes of the ToP arc. There were huge crowds of people watching it live in city stadiums. The Super anime really brought people together, it nailed down what makes Dragon Ball entertaining to the masses.

Regardless, at least GT didn't pretend its villains were redeemable. Because, well... none of them were. Toyotaro is trying so hard to be a smart writer by making the ending convoluted and full of twists, when he should just kill Moro already. This stupid goat has no personality or motivation anyway, he reminds me of Super 17. Who actually cares if he dies without getting a chance at redemption? If Moro died a few months ago, would anyone really have said "Man, I'm so angry Goku killed Moro without even offering him a chance to atone for his sins!!"...

When did TOEI ever fix anything? DBS anime It is probably one of the most inconsistent writings in the series. People constantly talk about how anime was better because of the entertainment factor, but proceed to complain at the first inconsistency seen.

Not really, I have never seen people outside of hardcore forums like this one complain about the inconsistencies. None of my irl friends did for sure.

The anime arcs are so much more enjoyable, down to the personality and techniques used by the new characters, so I'm sure Toei will fix this. Just need to wait for the anime return.

[Matches Malone]

When did TOEI ever fix anything? DBS anime It is probably one of the most inconsistent writings in the series.

Arguing over which is better is like arguing over whether or not getting a D on a test is better than getting an F. No matter how you look at it, the end result is more or less the same. When it comes to Super, one may do a thing or two better than its counterpart, but both are still overall mediocre products at best.

[SupremeKai25]

When did TOEI ever fix anything? DBS anime It is probably one of the most inconsistent writings in the series.

Arguing over which is better is like arguing over whether or not getting a D on a test is better than getting an F. No matter how you look at it, the end result is more or less the same. When it comes to Super, one may do a thing or two better than its counterpart, but both are still overall mediocre products at best.

The D is better, more enjoyable, and less frustrating

[Super Saiyan God]

I know that Goku is stupid since he gave his ki to frieza but he reedem himself already and living on the earth plus even before he reedem himself he never were this pure bad and hyper pyscho.
Frieza didnt do %10 of things what Moro did. But I never thought that this Goku were this stupid enough to give Moro senzu beam.
On the other hand, if he did it on purpose its because of he always seeking strongest opponent for him and he made a good job now even on MUI form he would be definetly unable to stop him even if he engraged like Super Full Power Jiren he still cant beat him alone but with MUI Vegeta team up to defeat him

[Magnificent Ponta]

Uh... no. Actually. Maybe you're missing some things.

I haven't 'missed' anything. Those translations were out with the scans even before you stated you'd give the chapter the benefit of the doubt, which you are now conspicuously not doing. So, you did a total about-face on the strength of information we already had, like I said.

Now we have additional scans that we did not have a few days ago when I said I'd be interested to read the rest of the chapter.

We have 2 extra pages from that time. You have still not read the whole chapter. Hence my comment on how bizarre your change of tune is.

You can dislike it all you want when it's out - I've already said I have no intention of standing in judgement over what you do or do not like - but you've seen about 25% of the Chapter, and you're prepared to make a total condemnatory judgement not only of the chapter itself (which you haven't actually read, no matter how hard you try to spin it), but the whole direction of Dragon Ball Super from this point, which you cannot possibly know. That's utterly crazy.

Ah, sorry, I just reviewed ch. 63, I had thought he sealed all three, but then the new scan of him having a fully-functioning, unharmed jewel with Merus' powers still inside made me assume my memory must have been wrong.

But that really doesn't change my point.

I mean, it really does. Merus did what he set out to do and succeeded. It's hardly obvious from an in-universe perspective that the severed hand should be able to do anything (after all, it's not like Piccolo can reattach lost limbs, as far as we know, and Moro doesn't have any other abilities that can obviously restore the dead hand to him), and really, it's just running the same beat the Buu arc played with in terms of there being 'a small piece left behind that was overlooked'.

But of course, you being straightforwardly wrong about this 'doesn't change anything'. Naturally. How could it?

So, to summarise:

• 4 days prior, you had not read the chapter. You were cautiously reasonable.
• 4 days from that point, you had still not read the chapter. You were frothing.
• You have not read the chapter - and I feel like I must stress this - because the chapter isn't even out yet.
• To help justify the lather you've worked yourself up into, you have made a basic error of fact about a chapter that has been out for 2 months.

I'm sorry, but not properly reading chapters we actually have, so you can excuse frothing over a chapter you haven't even read yet, is just peak Dragon Ball 'fandom' right now. This couldn't be a more perfect example of the kind of behaviour I've been decrying, not even if you'd gift-wrapped it and put a pretty bow on it.

Totally astonishing.

[Jiren The Alpha]

Now the most important question......IS THAT EVEN HIS FINAL FORM?!?!

[Omgzord]

Now the most important question......IS THAT EVEN HIS FINAL FORM?!?!

He hasn't abroad Zeno and the grand priest yet to so no.

[Jiren The Alpha]

If Moro users Merus full angel power would he not be erased like Merus?

[Magnificent Ponta]

If Moro users Merus full angel power would he not be erased like Merus?

It's entirely possible - Galan 007 mused on this very subject back on page 1682 of this very topic, which was even before Merus got erased (the first time I saw that resolution suggested here), but got promptly shouted down.

[Matches Malone]

Last minute predictions:

The "form" we saw Moro in is in fact not of his choosing, but rather the result of taking in the power of an angle. That kind of power is too much for him, and it was planned by Goku the whole time. Goku knew that by giving Moro a senzu bean, he'd try to take in such power, resulting in him destroying himself from the inside.

[Kinokima]

Last minute predictions:

The "form" we saw Moro in is in fact not of his choosing, but rather the result of taking in the power of an angle. That kind of power is too much for him, and it was planned by Goku the whole time. Goku knew that by giving Moro a senzu bean, he'd try to take in such power, resulting in him destroying himself from the inside.

Seems like a lot of what if’s when he was beating him in the first place

I doubt Goku planned this

[Galan007]

If Moro users Merus full angel power would he not be erased like Merus?

It's entirely possible - Galan 007 mused on this very subject back on page 1682 of this very topic, which was even before Merus got erased (the first time I saw that resolution suggested here), but got promptly shouted down.

At least someone remembered.

Will be a funny "told ya so" moment if that ends up being the case.

[Matches Malone]

Seems like a lot of what if’s when he was beating him in the first place

I doubt Goku planned this

The reason I bring this up is because it's something Goku did to Yakon, by allowing him to eat so much of his energy knowing he'd just explode. I'm hoping he figured out somehow that he can't take in any more energy, and that by doing so he'll essentially kill himself. This way he won't look so bad giving him the bean and fully healing him.

[Magnificent Ponta]

Seems like a lot of what if’s when he was beating him in the first place

I doubt Goku planned this

The reason I bring this up is because it's something Goku did to Yakon, by allowing him to eat so much of his energy knowing he'd just explode. I'm hoping he figured out somehow that he can't take in any more energy, and that by doing so he'll essentially kill himself. This way he won't look so bad giving him the bean and fully healing him.

I'd also like to point up the (admittedly relatively small) possibility that he may be looking to get Merus back from nonexistence this way; if Moro's made a complete back-up of him, it may be that Vegeta can split him off (since we don't really know how the complete back-up option of OG73-I's power really 'works').

At least someone remembered.

I was intrigued by it at the time, which is why I remembered it - I wasn't sure how likely it would be, as Toyotarou tends to be something of a more 'obvious' writer than that, but I would definitely enjoy seeing it, so credit where credit's due.

[Kinokima]

Seems like a lot of what if’s when he was beating him in the first place

I doubt Goku planned this

The reason I bring this up is because it's something Goku did to Yakon, by allowing him to eat so much of his energy knowing he'd just explode. I'm hoping he figured out somehow that he can't take in any more energy, and that by doing so he'll essentially kill himself. This way he won't look so bad giving him the bean and fully healing him.

I'd also like to point up the (admittedly relatively small) possibility that he may be looking to get Merus back from nonexistence this way; if Moro's made a complete back-up of him, it may be that Vegeta can split him off (since we don't really know how the complete back-up option of OG73-I's power really 'works').

Wanting to bring back Merus is something I can get behind because otherwise going through all of this just to have Moro possibly destroy himself when Goku was beating Moro in the first place seems ridiculous and it could still backfire

But does Goku even know that Merus could still be copied? I guess it hinges on that

[Matches Malone]

I'd also like to point up the (admittedly relatively small) possibility that he may be looking to get Merus back from nonexistence this way; if Moro's made a complete back-up of him, it may be that Vegeta can split him off (since we don't really know how the complete back-up option of OG73-I's power really 'works').

I'll take just about anything other than "I'll help you because I believe in you". As long as Goku has a plan and reason for doing this, even if it doesn't work out, I'll accept it.