"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:49 am

So, lemme get this straight... Goku gave a senzu bean to Moro as a stupid nod to the Cell arc as Toyotaro can't write a single page without referencing the original work, but this time it doesn't acomplish sh*t?

And to get worse: by have eaten that 7-3 guy, Moro is somehow cappable of copying Goku abillities (he also almost could do it with Angel power), I really trying to not burst out of laughter with all that, cause it's freaking ridiculous!

I never thought Toyotaro could hit this rock bottom and at this point I can expect anything to happen in this series, maybe something silly as Beerus planning to overthrown Zeno? Who knows.

Apart from the ugly designs decisions with Moro (I mean just look at him: he's Cell with horns!), I liked the concept of him becoming one with the Earth, fighting an enemy that is literally a planet is kinda unique for this series (yes, I don't consider that Zamasu mess in the anime).
Liquir wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:18 am
Interview with V-Jump editor (and mascot for public appearances) “Victory” Uchida, on editing Dragon Ball Super:
Source: https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/13 ... 3715084289
What? Isn't Victory Uchida a character from Digimon Cyber Sleuth: Hacker's Memory?

Anyway the only thing interesting about is that they have like ten options down to three for an upcoming storyline after this arc? Don't know how to feel about this: more stretching to conflict with the "ten years of peace" we had in the original work? Can't they see that we had enough of Goten and Trunks being brats? A time skip would be just fine for god's sake. Also I can predict another blasted tournament, with Broly this time for sure.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TobyS » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:10 pm

Noah wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:49 am
So, lemme get this straight... Goku gave a senzu bean to Moro as a stupid nod to the Cell arc as Toyotaro can't write a single page without referencing the original work, but this time it doesn't acomplish sh*t?

And to get worse: by have eaten that 7-3 guy, Moro is somehow cappable of copying Goku abillities (he also almost could do it with Angel power), I really trying to not burst out of laughter with all that, cause it's freaking ridiculous!

I never thought Toyotaro could hit this rock bottom and at this point I can expect anything to happen in this series, maybe something silly as Beerus planning to overthrown Zeno? Who knows.

Apart from the ugly designs decisions with Moro (I mean just look at him: he's Cell with horns!), I liked the concept of him becoming one with the Earth, fighting an enemy that is literally a planet is kinda unique for this series (yes, I don't consider that Zamasu mess in the anime).
Liquir wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:18 am
Interview with V-Jump editor (and mascot for public appearances) “Victory” Uchida, on editing Dragon Ball Super:
Source: https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/13 ... 3715084289
What? Isn't Victory Uchida a character from Digimon Cyber Sleuth: Hacker's Memory?

Anyway the only thing interesting about is that they have like ten options down to three for an upcoming storyline after this arc? Don't know how to feel about this: more stretching to conflict with the "ten years of peace" we had in the original work? Can't they see that we had enough of Goten and Trunks being brats? A time skip would be just fine for god's sake. Also I can predict another blasted tournament, with Broly this time for sure.
I mean they dodged using Goten and Trunks entirely in this arc right? Did we even see them? So they might offscreen em indefinitely from now on to avoid growing them up. Toriyama thinks he aged the main cast too much in the epilogue so they won't catch up even though it's becoming a very peaceful busy ten years...
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by theherodjl » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:30 pm

The boys unfortunately got a double dose of those Saiyan genes, meaning they grow at a Kid Goku-rate. It wasn't until Goku was 15 that he wasn't a pint-sized child anymore and Vegeta appears to have been the same way in movie scenes.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:53 pm

TobyS wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:59 am
Tai Lung wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:21 pm

although Vados mentions that beerus and champa together are capable of destroying both universes and not beerus alone but ok
Does she say this in the manga and the anime?
The more interesting thing to me is this would mean the twin universes are the closest together 'geographically'
or at least by chance 6 and 7 are, otherwise why are they not a threat to all of them.
In the manga it was said that a universe would be destroyed while in the anime both however ... they are twin universes and "Nameless Planet" is a floating planet in the neutral space between Universe 6 and Universe 7 in addition to sharing the super dragon balls

that should mean that universe 6 can gets involved in catastrophes that also affect them but ... no

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kagari » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:29 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:30 pm
The boys unfortunately got a double dose of those Saiyan genes, meaning they grow at a Kid Goku-rate. It wasn't until Goku was 15 that he wasn't a pint-sized child anymore and Vegeta appears to have been the same way in movie scenes.
That's just a fan-made excuse. The real answer is no one wants to use them so they've been left by the wayside.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:34 pm

Kagari wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:29 pm
theherodjl wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:30 pm
The boys unfortunately got a double dose of those Saiyan genes, meaning they grow at a Kid Goku-rate. It wasn't until Goku was 15 that he wasn't a pint-sized child anymore and Vegeta appears to have been the same way in movie scenes.
That's just a fan-made excuse. The real answer is no one wants to use them so they've been left by the wayside.
Goten and Trunks have had the same main designs (or in Trunks' case, same two main designs) since Battle of Gods. Goten has his traditionally styled outfit, and Trunks has the hoodie outfit and the overalls outfit. Well, Trunks got a palette swap of his overalls outfit in DBS: Broly, I guess... In any case, that's where the problem lies. They desperately need new designs, complete overhaul designs that turn them into teens. However, if they're going to get new designs, there needs to be an interest in developing their characters and actually using them. However (again), people aren't really interested in Goten and Trunks when they're stuck as kids who never do anything, so what's the point in making whole new designs for them? In short, they're in an endless loop that pretty much breaks down to
No interest -> No development -> No interest
and it won't stop until Tori/Toyo/Toei finally decides to give them development without caring about what the fans think. But we know from how Super has been going that pandering to fans is a pretty high priority, so... :crazy:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Ziegander » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:50 pm

LightBing wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:18 pm
Just read the chapter. It's preposterous how much of a copy of the Cell Arc this is.

I'm disappointed and honestly this doesn't feel like Toyotarõ. Sure the dude copied a bunch of panels from the manga, some plot was reminiscent but nothing like this. In a few pages he summarized the latter bit of the Cell Games.

Like or dislike Toyotarõ he always had originality in this manga, stuff like Trunks plot during the Zamasu Arc or Muten Roshi's inferior Ultra Instinct.

This is just speculation but I think the corporate hand is at work. The way this arc has extended and restarted a few times, how plot points were dropped, most significantly Mr. Boo.

This feels like a Toei movie right now. I'll keep reading the action is improving and it's entertaining, otherwise like the anime the manga is creatively bankrupt.
Ultimately this sums up my views on this manga chapter as well. Not only does Toyo generally seem more original than this, but it's also unnaturally drawn out in a way Toyo never seemed to do before.

Not sure it's fair for anyone to say he's the worst writer of all time, but undeniably this arc has been, in my opinion, a dumpster fire of awful, awful narrative substance. And that is likely not just Toyo or even Toriyama or their editor's fault.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:04 pm

Trunks and Goten are little more than mascot characters at this point

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by theherodjl » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:25 pm

Kagari wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:29 pm
theherodjl wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:30 pm
The boys unfortunately got a double dose of those Saiyan genes, meaning they grow at a Kid Goku-rate. It wasn't until Goku was 15 that he wasn't a pint-sized child anymore and Vegeta appears to have been the same way in movie scenes.
That's just a fan-made excuse. The real answer is no one wants to use them so they've been left by the wayside.
It does have some basis as mentioned by Kid Goku's growth and to a lesser extent, Vegeta's as well. Not all children grow at the same rate or even to similar rates. I was always much shorter & smaller than my older brother until I hit puberty and then, I grew taller than him after a few summers and went from a size 6 shoe to a size 13.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:28 pm

Trunks' height will always be a problem, though. Well, at least until they fix it anyway. By now he should be taller, as outright established by his future counterpart. His growth is kind of similar to Gohan's. They both didn't take those "dose of Saiyans genes". Only Goten can get away with it (kind of...).

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JewyB » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:45 pm

Goten is my favourite character hence why i've really been enjoying Super.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:14 pm

JewyB wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:45 pm
Goten is my favourite character hence why i've really been enjoying Super.
Why's that? He doesn't do sh*t in Super, gosh even in GT he has more highlights.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by goku the krump dancer » Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:56 pm

Whats the point in Goten and Trunks showing up if they're just gonna goof off as Gotenks?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mister_Popo » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:24 pm

Cipher wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:15 am
Mister_Popo wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:23 pm
- Copying and absorbing are different abilities.
Moro normally only changes chape only when he absorbs, not when he copies.

Moro becoming more white and angel-like feels just like transforming because of the show-aspect, rather then because of it truely makes sense. Not that it never has happened before in DB of course ;)
I thought the implication was that his hair lightened because he was using UI—meaning that Goku’s hair change is an innate feature of the technique rather than some odd Saiyan transformation.


It does make sense what you are suggesting.
"Ultra Instinct" is not a typical SSJ-transformation.

Maybe i shouldn't have given it a 'Con-status' by means as a negative aspect of the chapter.

I don't want to nitpick, but it appears somehow inconsequent Beerus doesn't change at all while UI Omen does alter Gokus appearance slightly. The angels have white hair, Goku gets sylver hair while using MUI and a somehow different aura i haven't seen with the angels yet (altough they haven't really shown full battle power to date).
It could still be the case that "the physical manifestation of (M)UI" is somehow divergent with different users.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jack Bz » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:32 pm

The implication of Moro's fur turning white is that if anyone else learnt ultra instinct, their hair would also change to white/silver, and it isn't just a saiyan thing. Makes me wonder if Beerus would get a new UI "form".

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:34 pm

Jack Bz wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:32 pm
The implication of Moro's fur turning white is that if anyone else learnt ultra instinct, their hair would also change to white/silver, and it isn't just a saiyan thing. Makes me wonder if Beerus would get a new UI "form".
A white fur-skin Beerus? That would require him to actaully train though so I doubt we'll see it.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mister_Popo » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:37 pm

Jack Bz wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:32 pm
The implication of Moro's fur turning white is that if anyone else learnt ultra instinct, their hair would also change to white/silver, and it isn't just a saiyan thing. Makes me wonder if Beerus would get a new UI "form".

Yes, but if it's not a Saiyan thing, why does Goku does change slightly when he is 'a state of UI before MUI' (Omen) when Beerus is able to achieve a comparable state as well, but does not change at all?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jack Bz » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:44 pm

Mister_Popo wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:37 pm
Jack Bz wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:32 pm
The implication of Moro's fur turning white is that if anyone else learnt ultra instinct, their hair would also change to white/silver, and it isn't just a saiyan thing. Makes me wonder if Beerus would get a new UI "form".

Yes, but if it's not a Saiyan thing, why does Goku does change slightly when he is 'a state of UI before MUI' (Omen) when Beerus is able to achieve a comparable state as well, but does not change at all?
You're right that that is an inconsistency. For now I am interpreting it as UI sign = someone who is right on the cusp of accessing the mastered UI form, and Beerus wasn't yet on that level.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:01 pm

Jack Bz wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:44 pm
Mister_Popo wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:37 pm
Jack Bz wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:32 pm
The implication of Moro's fur turning white is that if anyone else learnt ultra instinct, their hair would also change to white/silver, and it isn't just a saiyan thing. Makes me wonder if Beerus would get a new UI "form".

Yes, but if it's not a Saiyan thing, why does Goku does change slightly when he is 'a state of UI before MUI' (Omen) when Beerus is able to achieve a comparable state as well, but does not change at all?
You're right that that is an inconsistency. For now I am interpreting it as UI sign = someone who is right on the cusp of accessing the mastered UI form, and Beerus wasn't yet on that level.
Actually, I'd argue that Beerus' doesn't really have that level of UI. When Goku showcased Sign for the first time in the Tournament of Power, Beerus had this to say:

Image

Which is as straightforward as it gets, and it doesn't contradicts what Whis said: Beerus haven't mastered UI yet, in the sense that he haven't been able to pull it off beyond the bare minimum, and Sign is beyond that.
Last edited by Thani on Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:02 pm

Jack Bz wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:44 pm
Mister_Popo wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:37 pm
Jack Bz wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:32 pm
The implication of Moro's fur turning white is that if anyone else learnt ultra instinct, their hair would also change to white/silver, and it isn't just a saiyan thing. Makes me wonder if Beerus would get a new UI "form".
Yes, but if it's not a Saiyan thing, why does Goku does change slightly when he is 'a state of UI before MUI' (Omen) when Beerus is able to achieve a comparable state as well, but does not change at all?
You're right that that is an inconsistency. For now I am interpreting it as UI sign = someone who is right on the cusp of accessing the mastered UI form, and Beerus wasn't yet on that level.
That should be a good enough explanation, since I don't think it was ever implied that Beerus was using UI Sign in the GoD exhibition match. He could just as easily have been using a more refined version of what Roshi used. Also, Beerus has no hair or fur, I'm pretty sure, so you'd see if he was using UI by looking at his eyes. He didn't seem to have silver eyes to me. (Though that makes it impossible to discern between UI Sign and UI.)
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