"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Miracles
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:23 am

Mad Swami wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:08 am
Miracles wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:52 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:10 pm

Gohan was revived shortly after. Kid Buu couldn't kill Goku fast enough though. Say Goku was just holding off Kid Buu until Gohan was brought there nothing would go wrong. Him not fighting Cell for the sake of the Earth is most likely due to the fact that Goku sees that as his last fight. Goku is going to retire by that point, maybe not die but he's planned to have Gohan take over. He's going to enjoy his last fight. The Vegeta thing is far different. Vegeta is not the main villain of the Frieza saga or a big enough threat to make it absurd for Goku to spare. Again Goku spared Piccolo to fight again but also has the pragmatic point that keeping Piccolo keeps Kami. Goku can be reasonable. The Majin Vegeta thing was to save others. He was trying to stop Vegeta killing people. He wanted to fight but at the same time didn't want to realese Buu. I think its fair to assume Goku's already existing tendency to spare those that are worthy of it would be twisted by SSJ to spare Frieza.
You are giving a lot of outside explanations for Goku's reasons of fighting for himself that are not in the story. The fact is, Goku keeping Moro alive for selfish reasons is in Goku's character. He has done this before and it is no mistake.
I am using simple context clues. Goku's selfishness is being flanderized at this point in the story. His past actions are different within the context of the story. This one is the most blatantly regressive.
Clues are not defined facts. The fact is Goku has a selfish side when it comes to combat. Which is demonstrated repeatedly.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:35 am

Miracles wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:23 am
Mad Swami wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:08 am
Miracles wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:52 pm

You are giving a lot of outside explanations for Goku's reasons of fighting for himself that are not in the story. The fact is, Goku keeping Moro alive for selfish reasons is in Goku's character. He has done this before and it is no mistake.
I am using simple context clues. Goku's selfishness is being flanderized at this point in the story. His past actions are different within the context of the story. This one is the most blatantly regressive.
Clues are not defined facts. The fact is Goku has a selfish side when it comes to combat. Which is demonstrated repeatedly.
He has a selfish side, however he also does protect people and acts rationally.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:04 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:28 pm
Am I the only one that thinks it's kinda weird that the kaioshin were nowhere to be seen throughout the whole arc?

Shin's predecessors stopped Moro eons ago, even the Dai Kaioshin came back (you'd think Shin and the old guy sensed that historic comeback, if they weren't keeping the usual eye on their ningen friends), so it could be argued there should be some sense of duty or something similar to what mobilised them in the Buu and the FT arc. I mean, Shin went to U10, to the past just with Gowasu, he even attacked Black! he is not afraid of conflict and with the old guy are the only folks with magic abilities, even if they suck.

But what caught my attention is not that they are not taking part, is that they weren't even shown following the events after being there in every DBS arc, in relevant roles too. I know they are not part of the main cast, but we've seen everybody in this arc (Shin could've been more useful than Yamcha), except for them.

I really can't believe they are unaware of what's been going on for months all around the universe and specially in the two planets they have visited the most, not to mention the "revival" of Shin's... kind of master??. That was months ago and he is still asleep inside of Buu that is also asleep.

So what do you guys think? they have no idea what's been going on, they know but prefer to sit this one out for whatever reason, or are they actively fixing what Moro broke and it will be shown at the end of the arc?
I have been asking that myself for as long as the arc has been going. Like bruh, not even a reaction from Shin to Daikaioshin's return? Not even a bit of concern for what the patrol wants to do with Majin Buu? Forget all that, not even the tiniest of concern about the universe collapsing!

I like new characters (many from the criminal brigade for example) but there could easily have been a panel or two with the Kais instead. They probably forgot about them...
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:31 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:04 pm
Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:28 pm
Am I the only one that thinks it's kinda weird that the kaioshin were nowhere to be seen throughout the whole arc?

Shin's predecessors stopped Moro eons ago, even the Dai Kaioshin came back (you'd think Shin and the old guy sensed that historic comeback, if they weren't keeping the usual eye on their ningen friends), so it could be argued there should be some sense of duty or something similar to what mobilised them in the Buu and the FT arc. I mean, Shin went to U10, to the past just with Gowasu, he even attacked Black! he is not afraid of conflict and with the old guy are the only folks with magic abilities, even if they suck.

But what caught my attention is not that they are not taking part, is that they weren't even shown following the events after being there in every DBS arc, in relevant roles too. I know they are not part of the main cast, but we've seen everybody in this arc (Shin could've been more useful than Yamcha), except for them.

I really can't believe they are unaware of what's been going on for months all around the universe and specially in the two planets they have visited the most, not to mention the "revival" of Shin's... kind of master??. That was months ago and he is still asleep inside of Buu that is also asleep.

So what do you guys think? they have no idea what's been going on, they know but prefer to sit this one out for whatever reason, or are they actively fixing what Moro broke and it will be shown at the end of the arc?
I have been asking that myself for as long as the arc has been going. Like bruh, not even a reaction from Shin to Daikaioshin's return? Not even a bit of concern for what the patrol wants to do with Majin Buu? Forget all that, not even the tiniest of concern about the universe collapsing!

I like new characters (many from the criminal brigade for example) but there could easily have been a panel or two with the Kais instead. They probably forgot about them...
I even wonder if this arc and villain weren't the perfect opportunity for the kaioshin to be important. To actually be useful besides fetching the DBs, putting a crew together, taking them somewhere with the kai kai or introducing new ways to boost the power of the saiyans. Through fighting, with their magic countering(or at least trying to) Moro's, even aiding earthlings when Moro invaded Earth with his goons.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:42 pm

The fact that Zamasu, the strongest Kai in the cosmos, had to hijack the body of a saiyan to pose a threat to the protagonists... should tell you everything there is to know about the current state of the Supreme Kais.

They are fodder. Unfortunately.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:37 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:42 pm
The fact that Zamasu, the strongest Kai in the cosmos, had to hijack the body of a saiyan to pose a threat to the protagonists... should tell you everything there is to know about the current state of the Supreme Kais.

They are fodder. Unfortunately.
Weren’t they always fodder? Like in this arc it’s implied that the Daikaioshin could have rivaled Beerus but used most of his power to seal Moro’s Magic, to the point where he couldn’t even kill Buu.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:17 pm

DiscountDabi wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:37 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:42 pm
The fact that Zamasu, the strongest Kai in the cosmos, had to hijack the body of a saiyan to pose a threat to the protagonists... should tell you everything there is to know about the current state of the Supreme Kais.

They are fodder. Unfortunately.
Weren’t they always fodder? Like in this arc it’s implied that the Daikaioshin could have rivaled Beerus but used most of his power to seal Moro’s Magic, to the point where he couldn’t even kill Buu.
Uhm, no... Absolutely NOTHING implied that.. lol

All that was implied was that the Dai Kaioshin (in his prime) may have been even stronger than the South Kaioshin (whom we know was stated to be the strongest of the 5 Supreme Kais during Majin Buu’s reign about 5 million years ago.)
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:54 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:17 pm
DiscountDabi wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:37 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:42 pm
The fact that Zamasu, the strongest Kai in the cosmos, had to hijack the body of a saiyan to pose a threat to the protagonists... should tell you everything there is to know about the current state of the Supreme Kais.

They are fodder. Unfortunately.
Weren’t they always fodder? Like in this arc it’s implied that the Daikaioshin could have rivaled Beerus but used most of his power to seal Moro’s Magic, to the point where he couldn’t even kill Buu.
Uhm, no... Absolutely NOTHING implied that.. lol

All that was implied was that the Dai Kaioshin (in his prime) may have been even stronger than the South Kaioshin (whom we know was stated to be the strongest of the 5 Supreme Kais during Majin Buu’s reign about 5 million years ago.)
You’re right, its not specifically implied. I should have said that.

But, doing some simple scaling you could see how one would come to that assumption. Given the fact that 10 million year old Moro could overpower God Vegeta, the fact that he’s in a pathetic state at the moment and at his full power God Vegeta was an ant to him, and the fact that he said the Dai Kaioshin was the only one around who could rival him. I think that’s enough to go off of there.

But again, thats just me stretching a bit. You’re still right

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:48 am

DiscountDabi wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:37 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:42 pm
The fact that Zamasu, the strongest Kai in the cosmos, had to hijack the body of a saiyan to pose a threat to the protagonists... should tell you everything there is to know about the current state of the Supreme Kais.

They are fodder. Unfortunately.
Weren’t they always fodder? Like in this arc it’s implied that the Daikaioshin could have rivaled Beerus but used most of his power to seal Moro’s Magic, to the point where he couldn’t even kill Buu.
Well back in Z I wouldn't have called them fodder, as Shin could have oneshot Frieza and Cell and actually put up a relatively decent fight vs. Fat Buu.

Now in Super Shin is relegated to battle narrator and dispenser for potara earrings, however.
My form is justice. And my form is the world. Worship me. Give praise unto me. Me, the beautiful, the sublime. Me, the invincible, the almighty and divine. All Hail Zamasu!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TobyS » Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:36 am

If the humans could beat some Moro henchs and not lose to the others Shin should have been there helping it's weird he wasn't given his involvement in the black arc.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:07 pm

Part of me would quite like Shin to pop up after all this is done, and say he's been hitting the books and learning all about all of the mortal species in the Universe, how he knows all about them, their abilities, their history, etc...only to be told that most of them got eaten by Moro while he was busy studying.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:34 pm

Magnificent Ponta wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:07 pm
Part of me would quite like Shin to pop up after all this is done, and say he's been hitting the books and learning all about all of the mortal species in the Universe, how he knows all about them, their abilities, their history, etc...only to be told that most of them got eaten by Moro while he was busy studying.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You could even follow that up with the elder one telling him "I tried to tell you that and other stuff too, but you kept telling me to go away, to not interrumpt you while you study"

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:27 pm

These people had a barbecue after they just witnessed MULTIVERSAL OMNICIDE, if Shin heard that Moro has wiped out many species in the universe he'd be like the man in the "Oh no! Anyway..." meme.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MajinMan » Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:58 am

I was really hoping this arc would’ve been done by now, but it looks like it’s either ending in December or January. I wonder if we might get any news on the upcoming movie after this arc ends. Or maybe even news about the anime returning. Or we could just not get any of that and move on with Toyotaro’s wacky homage adventures.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:03 pm

Zelvin wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:33 am
Goku had to do the same thing to use Kaioken. I'm not going to keep going deep into all this. It's been pointed out countless times how much Toyo has stolen ideas from every other arc/saga in the series and from other shows/manga. Even so far as copying imagery from the games. I'm sure everyone recalls the crater formed when Merus-Moro clashed with PUI Goku.
Image
Pretty much the same imagery.
Why I not surprised? Could this guy ever write a chapter without appealing to homages/rip-offs from other medias?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Wukong » Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:49 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:17 pm
DiscountDabi wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:37 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:42 pm
The fact that Zamasu, the strongest Kai in the cosmos, had to hijack the body of a saiyan to pose a threat to the protagonists... should tell you everything there is to know about the current state of the Supreme Kais.

They are fodder. Unfortunately.
Weren’t they always fodder? Like in this arc it’s implied that the Daikaioshin could have rivaled Beerus but used most of his power to seal Moro’s Magic, to the point where he couldn’t even kill Buu.
Uhm, no... Absolutely NOTHING implied that.. lol

All that was implied was that the Dai Kaioshin (in his prime) may have been even stronger than the South Kaioshin (whom we know was stated to be the strongest of the 5 Supreme Kais during Majin Buu’s reign about 5 million years ago.)
It's not implied in direct comparison to Beerus, but depending on where one would put Moro in his prime at (someone above even SSB-tier characters), it's certainly puts the Grand Supreme Kai somewhere within a reasonable range to Beerus at his own prime.

He was certainly a cut above every other Kaioshin we've seen, with Zamasu himself still being below a max-power SS2 Trunks in the manga.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:44 am

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:49 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:17 pm
DiscountDabi wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:37 pm


Weren’t they always fodder? Like in this arc it’s implied that the Daikaioshin could have rivaled Beerus but used most of his power to seal Moro’s Magic, to the point where he couldn’t even kill Buu.
Uhm, no... Absolutely NOTHING implied that.. lol

All that was implied was that the Dai Kaioshin (in his prime) may have been even stronger than the South Kaioshin (whom we know was stated to be the strongest of the 5 Supreme Kais during Majin Buu’s reign about 5 million years ago.)
It's not implied in direct comparison to Beerus, but depending on where one would put Moro in his prime at (someone above even SSB-tier characters), it's certainly puts the Grand Supreme Kai somewhere within a reasonable range to Beerus at his own prime.

He was certainly a cut above every other Kaioshin we've seen, with Zamasu himself still being below a max-power SS2 Trunks in the manga.
Define “Prime” Moro. Or simply “Young” Moro would be better.

After he ate Planet Namek he finally got young again for the first time since he escaped from prison. But we know that was only the beginning and he had yet to spend 2 whole months of eating planets to become waa~aaaaaaaaaay stronger than he already was when he first got young again..

Who’s to say that the “young” Moro from 10 million years ago isn’t just as weak as the “just ate planet Namek and just turned young again” Moro..

There’s a humongous strength difference with PRE 2 month absorbing spree young Moro... and POST 2 months of absorbing spree young Moro...

Moro even specifically went out of his way and said that he would “completely stock up” on eating planets so that he could reach his “outer limits of his power” after he sensed Vegeta’s insane power growth on Planet Yardrat.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:57 pm

You know this whole conversation has made me question why the Supreme Kai’s life is tied to that universes God of Destruction and not the Grand Supreme Kai. All logic should point towards the grand supreme kai’s life being tied to Beerus’s and not Shins.

The only reason I can conclude is that the whole thing is simply a plot device to allow Black and Zamasu to kill all the Gods without actually being on Beerus’s level

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:03 pm

DiscountDabi wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:57 pm
You know this whole conversation has made me question why the Supreme Kai’s life is tied to that universes God of Destruction and not the Grand Supreme Kai. All logic should point towards the grand supreme kai’s life being tied to Beerus’s and not Shins.

The only reason I can conclude is that the whole thing is simply a plot device to allow Black and Zamasu to kill all the Gods without actually being on Beerus’s level
Maybe it's like they're all tied to his life- when one dies, the next becomes the default Grand Supreme Kai in the chain and he only dies once none are left.

Though that should mean that Beerus is safe no matter what happens to Shin while the Grand Supreme Kai is technically alive inside Buu, but eh.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:10 am

Image
I wish Grand Kai appeared, this was the perfect time to canonize him. Seeing how incompetent Shin is, it would be nice to have someone wise in charge of the good deities.

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