"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[emperior]

This was amazing. Like, holy shit. This chapter blew me up. I never expected such an awesome finale for the arc.
Ever since they left Namek, this arc has been awesome. I wasn’t much of a fan of the arc up until then, but all the stuff of Vegeta on Yardrat, Goku training with Merus (with the later reveal of Merus’ true identity) and all the fights on Earth were absolutely top notch material.

I don’t know what happened but in the last few months/year, Toyotaro’s improved under all aspects. He’s now 100% worthy of being the artist and co-writer of Dragon Ball.

As for the chapter, I especially loved Uub’s key role in this. I loved the “reveal” that his power is that incredibly absurd.
That scene may be one of my favorite ever.
It justifies End of Z even more, especially after everything which has happened in Super. It’s fair to say that Uub’s potential goes above and beyond everyone’s.
Vegeta’s role was also perfect, and I am happy that ultimately Moro got defeated by this teamwork between everyone (with Goku playing the main part, rightfully).

Also, I have no complain whatsoever about the spiritual giant form Goku assumed. What’s wrong with it? It was actually super cool in my opinion. I want more of this stuff, I don’t like it when they play it too safe.

This would be perfect if it was the last arc before the End of Z happens. And maybe it is. It ties up so damn perfectly.

[bubibartra]

Nah even with context i cant accept Giant Goku.

Why?

Vegeta getting Spirit bomb and IT in the same arc is stupid.

Its not a spirit bomb and he said he probably couldn’t pull off Instantaneous Movement

Vegeta can do IT whenever he wants, in fact he has already done it, and he can do a genkindama whenever he wants, he has sufficient command of the spirit. Another is that he does not want to be Goku's previous techniques. But in time of need Vegeta will use these techniques without problems.

[Matches Malone]

Great chapter and overall great (semi) conclusion to the arc. I can't wait to see what happens with the gran priest next month. I really liked how everyone played some role in Moro's defeat, it wasn't just Goku and/or Vegeta. I was also shocked to not only see Uub, but the size of a role he played in Moro's defeat, as he was the key to it.

[Xeogran]

A (kinda dark) thought just came to my mind:
Since by EoZ nobody there except Goku and Dende knows of Uub, it means that the donator of God Ki will remain a secret to the Z-Fighters.

Which means that Uub will still have to live in poverty for years to come despite saving Earth, otherwise Bulma and the rest would throw him a party.

Poor boy

[Lord Beerus]

Random and scattered thoughts of Chapter 66:

- Absolutely stellar artwork and fight choreography from start to finish. Despite all of my grievances of the Toyotaro's writing, when it comes to artstyle and panelling, he always nails it. Special mention to the pages where Ultra Instinct Goku charges to Planet Eater Moro only for Planet Eater Moro to stop him with multiple giant hands from the planet.

- I HATED how the story teased Beerus being involved just to yank him out of the plot at the 11th hour. Sure, it's justfied in-universe, but his appearances in the arc have contributed nothing of significance in terms of moving the plot forward. He only seemed to feature in this arc as reminder that he, as character, still exists. Why bother having Beerus show up in the story if you aren't going to do anything with him?

- I really didn't like how Whis just spelled out to Goku how to defeat Moro. I guess taking the time for Goku to figure out how Moro's magic functions in all important capacities wasn't something Toyotaro wanted to invest all his time into. Even if taking that avenue in the narrative could have lead to some unique structuring in the battle between Goku and Moro. I guess he was in a bit of a rush.

- Whis stopping Planet Eater Moro fist with one figure so casually while talking with Goku was just the most alpha thing I've seen in the arc.

- Yamcha talking about dying as a bachelor got a laugh out of me.

- Nice to see all of the supporting cast play significant role in the the endgame, even if it was just to make Goku individually strong enough to deal the killing punch. Real DBZ Movie 8 vibes with that whole moment.

- I nearly fell out of my chair with that Oob reveal. What a fantastic way to integrate him into the plot. And Daikaioshin being the one to instruct Oob in sending his energy to Goku was a wonderful bit of continuity, a great Easter egg and provided a neat little bow on Majin Boo's character arc.

- Not sure how I feel about Giant Fighting Spirit Ultra Instinct Goku. I really miss when Ultra Instinct was about dodging techniques and attacks rather than tanking them. I just can't help but feel that Ultra Instinct traded its substance for style.

- Even though the conclusion of this arc came down to the generic "combined energy attack" trope -- which has been done to death in Dragon Ball in general -- being the resolution of the major conflict, credit where it's due, it was executed pretty damn great. It was all of minor and major tidbits coming together.

Overall thoughts... great chapter and a great penultimate ending.

[LoganForkHands73]

More importantly than anything, this chapter has that truly climactic feel. Goku pushing through Moro's hands, trying to get to the gem in his forehead, he doesn't quiiite get there but he's so damn close. The artwork just sells every dramatic beat so well. The slow pan to Uub with Daikaioshin, Goku's giant susanoo grappling Moro, the triple "freeze frame" of Goku smashing the gem from different angles... it's all just... *chef's kiss*

Could we have reached this point in a less belaboured way? Probably. But in a way, it feels like the Buu arc, a storyline that felt like it went on so damn long that you're ecstatic when it finally ends.

[DiscountDabi]

Love or Hate him, Toyotaro definitely knows how to story board an Anime. When the Anime Adapts this, I hope (for the most part) that none of the Action Scenes change too much. Ki Titan Goku is one of the coolest bits of Choreography in this arc, up there with MUI Goku vs Moro, Piccolo vs 7-3, and Ui Omen Goku vs Moro.

He really out did himself in this chapter and he has definitely improved his art by a country mile

[Kinokima]

So if this is animated I hope we get more training time of Vegeta on Yadrat and scenes with Goku & Merus


Edit: Also thinking about Whis. While I think I’d rather he had not tell Goku how to defeat Moro I guess it shows he did the most he could to help without getting directly involved. He also encouraged Goku in the end too. It’s small but I think it was a nice character moment when you think about it.

[FortuneSSJ]

- Chapter 66-

Damn, Toyotaro did it really good!

I would like to say "Great end to a great arc", but there's still one chapter left and I'm not sure if Moro is really dead, so I will wait to be sure.
I wanted Vegeta to give the final blow and Majin Buu to play a role on the frront lines, but the way Toyotaro used Vegeta's new technique for everyone to help, including Uub who I didn't expect to appear at all, pleased me a lot!

Uub now having god ki is a good excuse to make him as strong as they want and and highlights his potential. Now thanks to that Goku vs Uub in EOZ fits better with Super story.

I loved Goku's avatar and if Toei adapts this, this is the main thing I don't want them to change! First time Toyotaro actually goes beyond and makes something outside the box. That's the kind of new things I like to see in this franchise. I'm speechless it came out from Toyotaro this time, because it's usually Toei that goes crazy with the visuals. More new cool stuff like this, please!

Volume 14 cover is fantastic, by the way. A big win for Toyotaro this month!

[EGonzo]

Well, the best thing I can say about this chapter is that it finally ended this terrible arc.
I can't think of a worse ending to this than what we got, but maybe it's because the chapter is still fresh in my mind. Vegeta's entire shtick this arc only mattered because Goku either fucks up or the plot straight up hands Moro a way out of multiple defeats. Goku apparently forgets he's using Ultra Instinct because he just powers through Moro's hands instead of dodging - the whole point of the technique he spent months training to master.
I'm gonna stop right now because I'm too hotheaded right now. I hated the entire arc, and this whole chapter, so I admit I can't do an impartial judgement just yet.

[The Undying]

A (kinda dark) thought just came to my mind:
Since by EoZ nobody there except Goku and Dende knows of Uub, it means that the donator of God Ki will remain a secret to the Z-Fighters.

Which means that Uub will still have to live in poverty for years to come despite saving Earth, otherwise Bulma and the rest would throw him a party.

That's what I like about Oob.

The audience knows him as the reincarnation of Boo, but he's really just some random kid getting caught up in events completely foreign to him; nobody would suspect he's more than a scrawny average joe until he fights in the tournament. It's a good device that plays into Goku's excitement of unknown thrills in DB's epilogue, and is further cemented by this chapter.

Importantly, it also allows EoZ to make sense in the context of Super -- both with Oob's potential as a fighter and with his anonymity. I expected the manga to do so, but I didn't quite expect it this early (yet it was subtly foreshadowed earlier in the arc, which is smart).

[Peach]

So stupid that Uub is already so old, but Goten and Trunks STILL look the same as the Majin Buu saga.

[Grimlock]

Yeah, Goten and Trunks appeared in this chapter (for the first time in the whole saga?) and they're still being portrayed as kids, while Uub, who is six years old, looks to be the same age as those teenagers.

I'll humbly ask again, can we please and finally just move on to the tournament or beyond that point already?

[Matches Malone]

I wanted Vegeta to give the final blow.

Someone pointed out a few days ago that maybe Moro will go back to his goat form and Vegeta will put him down.

[kei17]

Toyotaro has drawn thousands of pages of this manga until now and still doesn't even know how to draw human bodies properly. What a great successor.

[TeeHallums]

Toyotaro has drawn thousands of pages of this manga until now and still doesn't even know how to draw human bodies properly. What a great successor.

Not only is this correction wrong and improves nothing, but Toriyama is like... near famous at this point for his litany of anatomical mistakes. I mean dont get me wrong, Toriyama is a much more accomplished artist than Toyotaro, and Toyo has a laundry list of artistic failings. But running around and blindly bashing his stylistic choices with invalid solutions is obviously no good.


Honestly, this is yet another case of conflating objective anatomy with style. If were going on a strict anatomical level, the majority of the DB manga is totally off. The DB "Style" is littered with these sorts of """"problems"""", but they're not even problems, they're stylistic quirks.

Spoiler:

[VegettoEX]

In this particular case, I'm with Tee. I'm sitting here experimenting with giving a thumbs-up in a similar manner, and one extremely close to my side (as Toyo drew it) feels much more comfortable and natural than my elbow still touching my side but pushed further outward.

BOTH of those are different to my arm being slightly horizontally further away from my body and pushed forward, which DOES also feel and look natural... but that's not what you corrected there (it would have to be re-drawn from scratch to approximate this).

I'm fully on board with criticism of Toyo's bizarre anatomy, but this one doesn't fit the bill.

I think what's most striking about it is how it's clearly a parallel to the Boo one, but it's just not drawn exactly the same so it jumps out as "wrong"... when it really isn't, from my perspective.

(Not an artist.)

[Koitsukai]

I really enjoyed this chapter. I was quite surprised to see the Earth absorbing people's ki, just standing on Earth meant you were going to get absorbed. Flying was the only escape from it and 99,99% of the Earth's population can't do that, so Moro is getting stronger by the second.

But still, Goku remains a beast. He is blocking (with less effectiveness as moments go by) a continuous ki-absorbing Earth-Merus-Moro73, one would expect Goku to get wrecked but no, he never loses his composure or takes damage, he just gets surprised once.

Beerus finally stepping up would've been nice, but he had nothing to do with this arc, although the chapter does hint at him being a fucking genius. He figured out Moro's weakspot in a heartbeat, but his past actions came back to bite him in the ass and prevented him from intervening.
Whis' gloves coming off was nice too, he understood there was no time left to wait until Goku figured it out on his own, and that things were getting out of hand quickly(Merus, EarthMoro, GP calling). Also he stops treating Goku as a mere student, he is no longer sharing tips and pointers, he is taking action, "the answer is X and you already know it". Stakes sure must be high when Whis is being this pragmatic.

Vegeta's entrance was fantastic, and his timming was great because Moro's weakspot was already starting to get covered by his own body. These past weeks the discussion was "how would his Spirit Fission attack would work?", "what obstacles would he face?" well, Earth wasn't dodging him but instead it was absorbing his power. Even better.
Goku going through multiple giant hands was greatly done, he was bound to get absorbed eventually.

Goten and Trunks are looking even smaller than before lol, End of Z will have them as toddlers at this rate.
Vegeta adding his own ki to his genkidama was a surprise, but I might be mixing media here, after all it was only in Toei's movies and during the anime's ToP where he was reluctant to share his power (for different reasons).

I think it was nice to see everybody willing to die for Goku, or alongside Goku. And was a blast to see Krilin's coughing with his tongue out like a sleepy puppy.

Uub's imput was unexpected, well-done and well-received by me. And Jaco is fast as hell, I guess. And smart as hell too. It ties great to EoZ, making Goku's interest in him logical. Although Uub never recognizes Mr. Buu in the Tenkaichi Budokai, and there are little differences between Buu and Dai Kaioshin.

Giant UI Goku I don't know. It looked great, I don't understood exactly what it meant, I guess it was the projection of his power, one that subdues Earth Moro like a bitch. With just his ki, not even moving a inch.

TL;DR: basically I enjoyed this very much. I've been fearing this arc would have a shitty ending or screw it up in some way, I hated how anticlimatic the past arcs ended. But now several actors were brought back and contributed to the victory in some way(from Goku to Jaco), without taking Goku's spotlight. Who finally defeated a villain, sort of on his own. Artwise, Toyo is amazing, his evolution throughout this arc is on par with Goku and Vegeta's. We finally reached a point where there is no need to mention his art, it's a given now.

[Brettjr25]

A (kinda dark) thought just came to my mind:
Since by EoZ nobody there except Goku and Dende knows of Uub, it means that the donator of God Ki will remain a secret to the Z-Fighters.

Which means that Uub will still have to live in poverty for years to come despite saving Earth, otherwise Bulma and the rest would throw him a party.

Poor boy

The god of gods shows up and is like you help the universe kid. Ok thanks, go back to being poor!

What is this christianity?!

[kei17]

Not only is this correction wrong and improves nothing, but Toriyama is like... near famous at this point for his litany of anatomical mistakes. I mean dont get me wrong, Toriyama is a much more accomplished artist than Toyotaro, and Toyo has a laundry list of artistic failings. But running around and blindly bashing his stylistic choices with invalid solutions is obviously no good.


Honestly, this is yet another case of conflating objective anatomy with style. If were going on a strict anatomical level, the majority of the DB manga is totally off. The DB "Style" is littered with these sorts of """"problems"""", but they're not even problems, they're stylistic quirks.

Spoiler:

I don't call blatantly dislocated shoulders a "stylistic quirk." It doesn't even look right at a glance. Toyo drew Goku's shoulders from a horizontal point of view and then mistakenly drew the rest of his body in a lower angle. Toriyama knew what he was doing and his "quirks" can be considered a result of his stylistic choices because they look right at a glance and succeed in emphasizing what he wanted to show us. Toyo simply doesn't have a clue about human anatomy and keeps failing at drawing any characters. That's what I've been seeing so far.