"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Gogeta SSJ Blue]

Curiously, Vegeta seems to be bothered by Goku attaining UI against Whis!

So, hopefully he will train to reach it too!

Or will he still remain with his SSBE unique transformation?

What is your opinion about that?

I REALLY want Vegeta to get Ultra Instinct! I don’t care what anyone says! I don’t want another bullshit powerup like SSJ Blue 3 or GT’s bs SSJ4 or anything like that nonsense. I don’t see what fans see in that. Nothing beats the divine elegance and awesome style of Ultra Instinct!

I totally agree with you!

He really deserves to have it too, at least at this point.

It was already during quite some time an exclusive to Goku.

But how and when do you think he will finally attain it?

[Tai Lung]

I don’t want another bullshit powerup like SSJ Blue 3 or GT’s bs SSJ4 or anything like that nonsense.

SSJ4 made lots of sense, so don't compare it to the likes of Blue which weren't even hinted at and achieved off-screen.

It is the other way around, goku trains to get the ssjb with whis and it was explained that he achieved the god ki
ssj4 got it without training and it only happened through a random process that was never explained

[Xeogran]

It is the other way around, goku trains to get the ssjb with whis and it was explained that he achieved the god ki
ssj4 got it without training and it only happened through a random process that was never explained

What wasn't explained? To access Golden Oozaru you needed to have SSJ unlocked alongside a tail. At that point it was winning over your emotions to control the ape.

With Blue, the Whis training wasn't even shown properly. We don't even know when Vegeta achieved SSG yet he was Blue already. And suddenly he didn't need the ritual to unlock God Ki because?

[Grimlock]

But is it necessary to know exactly when Vegeta got it? It isn't enough to know he got it at some point after Movie 14 and before Movie 15?

Toyotaro never specified whether the ritual was done or not, so make that what you will. If you entertain the ritual idea, you can assume it happened in the manga continuity too, nothing contradicts that.

[Gogeta SSJ Blue]

It is the other way around, goku trains to get the ssjb with whis and it was explained that he achieved the god ki
ssj4 got it without training and it only happened through a random process that was never explained

What wasn't explained? To access Golden Oozaru you needed to have SSJ unlocked alongside a tail. At that point it was winning over your emotions to control the ape.

With Blue, the Whis training wasn't even shown properly. We don't even know when Vegeta achieved SSG yet he was Blue already. And suddenly he didn't need the ritual to unlock God Ki because?

Maybe that ritual still happened with Vegeta too but simply off-screen!

[Tai Lung]

so far I am liking what they have shown me ... in general the Saiyan origins and their stories are interesting

It is the other way around, goku trains to get the ssjb with whis and it was explained that he achieved the god ki
ssj4 got it without training and it only happened through a random process that was never explained

What wasn't explained? To access Golden Oozaru you needed to have SSJ unlocked alongside a tail. At that point it was winning over your emotions to control the ape.

With Blue, the Whis training wasn't even shown properly. We don't even know when Vegeta achieved SSG yet he was Blue already. And suddenly he didn't need the ritual to unlock God Ki because?

vegeta achieved it through training ... beerus and toppo have god ki without the need for a ritual

with ssj4 in the first instance ...
why does ro kaioshin know that? Why didn't he suggest it with super buu?
It seems that none of them knew what was going to happen ... since Goku went with the idea that simply making his tail grow was enough ...
ro kaioshin doesn't even think about "Blutz Waves" ...
How is it possible that the ozaru can be combined with the ssj when them are 2 different transformations ...
when did goku learn to control the ozaru? .. never
baby vegeta went through the same process and did not transform into ssj4 etc etc

it was all a set of improvisations very poorly put together

[Gogeta SSJ Blue]

so far I am liking what they have shown me ... in general the Saiyan origins and their stories are interesting

It is the other way around, goku trains to get the ssjb with whis and it was explained that he achieved the god ki
ssj4 got it without training and it only happened through a random process that was never explained

What wasn't explained? To access Golden Oozaru you needed to have SSJ unlocked alongside a tail. At that point it was winning over your emotions to control the ape.

With Blue, the Whis training wasn't even shown properly. We don't even know when Vegeta achieved SSG yet he was Blue already. And suddenly he didn't need the ritual to unlock God Ki because?

vegeta achieved it through training ... beerus and toppo have god ki without the need for a ritual

with ssj4 in the first instance ...
why does ro kaioshin know that? Why didn't he suggest it with super buu?
It seems that none of them knew what was going to happen ... since Goku went with the idea that simply making his tail grow was enough ...
ro kaioshin doesn't even think about "Blutz Waves" ...
How is it possible that the ozaru can be combined with the ssj when them are 2 different transformations ...
when did goku learn to control the ozaru? .. never
baby vegeta went through the same process and did not transform into ssj4 etc etc

it was all a set of improvisations very poorly put together

They have Godly ki?

At least Jiren does not possess it.

He simply is stronger than some Gods!

But I tend to agree with everything you said about SSJ4...

[Grimlock]

Can't believe I'm getting kinda hyped for just a brief scene. Just the thought of Toyotaro actually providing a bit of flashback that features Bardock does put a smile on my face. Finally that guy is being used for other reasons not related to Goku.

I don't expect the flashback to be as lenghty as the Majin Buu saga one, but still... Hopefully Toyotaro goes into detail with some on-screen fights/depiction of what happened. If this saga is ever adapted, we're gonna get some alternate Oozaru Bardock.

[Matches Malone]

Whether or not he's a Tuffle, I'm happy to see someone from the Saiyan's past survive their rampages and potentially go after them. I do hope he's presented as a good guy believing he's saving the universe from the saiyans, as that's an aspect I wish Baby had instead of being just another bad guy.

[pepd]

Not enthusiastic about revenge on saiyajins or Granola mistaking Goku for Badack, but I guess could see it working; what I can't help is to be turned off by the possibility of this leading to Baby.

[GodVegetto91]

I don’t want another bullshit powerup like SSJ Blue 3 or GT’s bs SSJ4 or anything like that nonsense.

SSJ4 made lots of sense, so don't compare it to the likes of Blue which weren't even hinted at and achieved off-screen.

Just because you think it makes sense doesn’t magically make it the right way forward right now.. ESPECIALLY given the route they have set out for Goku and Vegeta ever since the end of Battle of Gods and beginning of Resurrection F (the “Godly Ki” route).. You don’t just change such a thing on a whim. The concepts are way too different, and indeed polar opposites!

Vegeta already has SSJ God, SSGSS, and SSGSS Evolved! It would make zero sense for him to suddenly go back to using regular ki again..

Also, I don’t like brutes, and primatives like apes for characters such as Goku and Vegeta (or even in general! My opinion ofcourse) so having a slim God form like UI, is truly something I desire, because it is so elegant and divine, stylish even! Much like Goku Black and Merged Zamasu had!

I can’t believe that people want the writers of Super to copy GT so badly now all of a sudden.. Especially an outdated concept like that primitive, non stylish, non elegant, non divine, brutish SSJ4 form! If there’s anything from GT worthy of copying.. It is definitely the concept of the evil shadow dragons!

[sunsetshimmer]

vegeta achieved it through training ... beerus and toppo have god ki without the need for a ritual

with ssj4 in the first instance ...
why does ro kaioshin know that? Why didn't he suggest it with super buu?
It seems that none of them knew what was going to happen ... since Goku went with the idea that simply making his tail grow was enough ...
ro kaioshin doesn't even think about "Blutz Waves" ...
How is it possible that the ozaru can be combined with the ssj when them are 2 different transformations ...
when did goku learn to control the ozaru? .. never
baby vegeta went through the same process and did not transform into ssj4 etc etc

it was all a set of improvisations very poorly put together

It was clearly explained that Baby's cells were the reason why Vegeta couldn't go SSJ4 before despite having control over Oozaru.
They were implying that you need to be pure blood to go SSJ4, even though DBH doesn't seem to follow that, but that's DBH.

The reason why old kaioshin didn't say anything about it during Buu saga is probably because they weren't strong enough as it was also suggested you need certain power level to reach SSJ4.

Also:

How is it possible that the ozaru can be combined with the ssj when them are 2 different transformations

The same way SS Blue is SSG + SS making the dumbest named transformation aka. SSGSS

[GodVegetto91]

I prefer the MODERN!

Not the ancient and primitive..

I prefer the stylish, the elegant, the divine, and the slim and skinny versions over their opposites!

I prefer the feminine.. over the masculine..! (in this specific case at least!)

No body hair > yes body hair.

No tail, more human-like > yes tail, more animalistic.

Goku Black, Zamasu, and the Angels are the perfect examples of what I’m looking for! As are SSJ God Goku and UI Goku!

[SupremeKai25]

I prefer the MODERN!

Not the ancient and primitive..

I prefer the stylish, the elegant, the divine, and the slim and skinny versions over their opposites!

I prefer the feminine.. over the masculine..! (in this specific case at least!)

No body hair > yes body hair.

No tail, more human-like > yes tail, more animalistic.

Goku Black, Zamasu, and the Angels are the perfect examples of what I’m looking for! As are SSJ God Goku and UI Goku!

THANK

YOU!

The Gods are elegant, divine, and beautiful. Very clearly a literal monkey man isn't elegant, divine, nor beautiful. So it makes 0 sense for a God transformation to have all this needless fur, tails, unkept hair, etc.

This is the image of elegant, divine, and beautiful:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Not a fucking half-naked animal like SS4.

Some people complain that "God forms are just recolours", but that is EXACTLY THE POINT. It's meant to be clean, so it's "just" a recolour. That's the point lol. It wouldn't be clean if it added a layer of fur, 10 tails, no eyebrows, weird hair, etc. would it?

It's not a secret that simplicity is more elegant than 20 different elements splattered all over something.

[MCDaveG]

Well, even tough the DLCs in Kakarot and sidestories there overall are simplistic, but the SSJ God and SSJ Blue achievement in the game makes more sense than it did in the series or manga for Vegeta.
I still can't wrap my head around that Vegeta somehow attained God Ki because of his genius but Goku needed a ritual for it.

Anyway, already struggling a bit with the Granola name, as it is basically a granola, but Cerealians
Why so cereal?

OK, wonder where is this arc going to and hope it introduces something fresh, makes me feel as a kid again to wait for new arc and not knowing what happens. At least Granola has an interesting design that is not simplistic and lazy like many of the new designs were and is something new. Reminds me of the era when Toriyama did the one shots like Sandland, which I really liked.

[emperior]

I am so happy to see that Granola is connected to the Saiyans and that his race was exterminated by their hands. A villain with a backstory like this was bound to happen someday, and it’s a perfectly fine backstory.

I wonder how Granola was able to escape from the genocide, and if he will confuse Goku with Bardock.
That is if Bardock being there isn’t just a cameo, but the fact he’s been shown is definitely very interesting.

This arc is now intriguing me a lot.

[Jack Bz]

I'm excited that this arc is looking like it's going to bring Freeza back into the fold. Maybe even Broly (and maybe maybe Goten and Trunks???)

I'm hoping that Granola is angry that the gang had a hand in reviving Freeza and thinking that saiyans and Freeza are still a team.

Also hyped for Goku Vs Whis. I hope it's not just Whis chopping Goku's neck, him passing out and Whis saying "you have a long way to go".

[MCDaveG]

I just hope we won't get a recycle of a Tsufuru arc for a second time.
First was the DBZ Plan to destroy the Saiyans on NES and then Baby arc adapted it as well with different plot points.
So if we have yet another Saiyan rampage survivor and I believe there must be potentionally many (if they survived), I really hope that this will be something new and unique, we haven't seen yet.

Anyway, I won't jump the gun and say that Granola is having a backstory and is unique, compared to Moro, because we know so little so far.
Moro was a magical being, like Buu, that devoured worlds and battled the Grand Kaioshin versus Granola, who is looking for an android from Moro arc for whatever reasons and survived Saiyan invasion... And I think Moro's design was interesting as well before he transformed.
Hence for me, the two characters are quite on par so far

[Grand Marshal 1]

Interesting. I got Goku Black introduction vibes (anime) while reading these panels. The haste at which Granolah is in to return to his lab (?) and retrieve his work, while he is being hunted by a monstrous enemy in the dark, with all this death and destruction spread around him. Can't wait!

Now, do I hope we will get more on his race other than it's name? Yes, but chances are, given his titular title as 'the survivor' his race is gone and he will probably won't say much about it (who knows, maybe we get a whole chapter as a backstory to how his race had any connections with the Cold Force/Freeza Force (perhaps of scientific nature, if he isn't the only genius in his race?) and how they may have betrayed their overlords, leading a Saiyan division (with Bardock in charge?) to destroy them and their tech before they pose an actual threat.

This would make Granolah a full-on enemy I suppose but unlike with say, Broly, he should probably go after Freeza if that's indeed the case.

[MCDaveG]

Interesting. I got Goku Black introduction vibes (anime) while reading these panels. The haste at which Granolah is in to return to his lab (?) and retrieve his work, while he is being hunted by a monstrous enemy in the dark, with all this death and destruction spread around him. Can't wait!

Now, do I hope we will get more on his race other than it's name? Yes, but chances are, given his titular title as 'the survivor' his race is gone and he will probably won't say much about it (who knows, maybe we get a whole chapter as a backstory to how his race had any connections with the Cold Force/Freeza Force (perhaps of scientific nature, if he isn't the only genius in his race?) and how they may have betrayed their overlords, leading a Saiyan division (with Bardock in charge?) to destroy them and their tech before they pose an actual threat.

This would make Granolah a full-on enemy I suppose but unlike with say, Broly, he should probably go after Freeza if that's indeed the case.

I don't know about the Freeza thing... they really have to do something interesting for it to be compelling, because Freeza was already killed once and how did that go... This Star Wars line perfectly sums up Dragon Ball: ''No one is ever really gone''.
So just revenge on Freeza again... might be interesting if Freeza was somehow paired up again with the main characters because he has to, against something or for some reason.