"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:01 pm

Cipher wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:13 am
Kagari wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:39 am
Nothing suggested that other than fan desire. He's stuffed away from Earth for a reason - he's not part of the main cast and that's perfectly fine. The modern content struggles to use what they have already.
The original series was always comfortable to move onto new characters of focus, shedding older ones (in terms of story prominence) as it went along.

Not only does it feel natural to to me to want to see more Freeza and Broly--as the first characters Super has left both within Universe 7 and without arcs obviously completed within their prior appearances--the desire to not do so (both on the part of fans and official parties to some extent) in favor of continuing to revisit the classic core cast is what strikes me as the less-in-the-spirit-of-DB, safer fan-appeal one.

I am specifically not horribly in love with Broly, but am definitely of the opinion that new stories should be incorporating and using him, simply because he's a new character with room to grow, and those kinds of gradual changes in core cast are part of DB's ethos I've always personally enjoyed.

Personally. But yeah, get Gohan, Kuririn, Piccolo, Goten, Trunks, the androids, Yamcha, etc. out of there unless there's really a commitment to doing something new with them, and give me Freeza, Broly, Oob, Pan (pipe dream on those two probably), some of the more dynamic figures from other universes, etc. instead. DB has always had a problem using what it already has, so to speak, but it's always kind of gleefully not cared and moved onto the next thing. Of the two, if Super is going to continue into these longer-form serials reminiscent of the original run, I definitely prefer it doing the latter--even if that means letting favorites go or that the main cast at any one point may not be my favorite group of the run.

(I say this but would actually be happy to see Gohan in a prominent role again if they shake him out of his Piccolo team-ups and let him and Vegeta pair up for a change, since they also have chemistry with each other and Gohan has a little more going on than most of the other classic cast members at this point.)

I would much rather Gohan play a more prominent role this arc than Broly.

Broly when he isn’t in a rage is pretty much a nice strong Saiyan. I am just not really sure what he can really add to the series.


In fact having Gohan and also Goten/Trunks more involved in an arc focused on Saiyan revenge makes way more sense to me Granolah’s entire Planet and all his people were killed except him. But there are still Saiyans and they are starting a new life on Earth. I feel that can add an interesting dynamic to the story that Broly just can’t.


And speaking of teams ups I’d love Vegeta/Gohan and Goku/Piccolo . That would be brilliant . I certainly think they could do more interesting things with their already established cast if they just changed the formula up a bit.


That being said will they include Broly because “fan service” I wouldn’t put it past them.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The Undying » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:23 pm

Lionel wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:23 am
Can we have some of other characters involved with this continual martial progression we see in chapters?
If we go that route, we need to do it with newer characters at this point. The previous arc already showed the structural ramifications of trying to shoehorn old side characters into stories they clearly didn't belong to placate fans. It doesn't work.

Broly's a good start because he was implied to (potentially) have become re-integrated into Freeza's army, and Freeza himself is already a given, so he already feels more relevant. It also helps that there's more room to have him grow as a character than someone like Yamcha or Tenshinhan.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:30 pm

The Undying wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:23 pm
Lionel wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:23 am
Can we have some of other characters involved with this continual martial progression we see in chapters?
If we go that route, we need to do it with newer characters at this point. The previous arc already showed the structural ramifications of trying to shoehorn old side characters into stories they clearly didn't belong to placate fans. It doesn't work.

Broly's a good start because he was implied to (potentially) have become re-integrated into Freeza's army, and Freeza himself is already a given, so he already feels more relevant. It also helps that there's more room to have him grow as a character than someone like Yamcha or Tenshinhan.
Well for what it's worth, Broly shouldn't see Freeza as the villain. His father died due to his mistake and Freeza didn't know about Broly's rage turning into this force of destruction. Freeza possessing the Dragon Balls which saved Broly is a good extra piece of info and let's not forget how it was Broly who went on a rampage on Freeza for an hour.

All in all, I doubt he would join Freeza cause Lemo and Cheelai already have him figured out, but if say, Freeza kidnapped them and lied to Broly in order for him to join him and save his friends, I can totally see Freeza and Broly teaming up against Granolah, who would be more than happy to battle THE saiyan himself.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:38 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:30 pm
The Undying wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:23 pm
Lionel wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:23 am
Can we have some of other characters involved with this continual martial progression we see in chapters?
If we go that route, we need to do it with newer characters at this point. The previous arc already showed the structural ramifications of trying to shoehorn old side characters into stories they clearly didn't belong to placate fans. It doesn't work.

Broly's a good start because he was implied to (potentially) have become re-integrated into Freeza's army, and Freeza himself is already a given, so he already feels more relevant. It also helps that there's more room to have him grow as a character than someone like Yamcha or Tenshinhan.
Well for what it's worth, Broly shouldn't see Freeza as the villain. His father died due to his mistake and Freeza didn't know about Broly's rage turning into this force of destruction. Freeza possessing the Dragon Balls which saved Broly is a good extra piece of info and let's not forget how it was Broly who went on a rampage on Freeza for an hour.

All in all, I doubt he would join Freeza cause Lemo and Cheelai already have him figured out, but if say, Freeza kidnapped them and lied to Broly in order for him to join him and save his friends, I can totally see Freeza and Broly teaming up against Granolah, who would be more than happy to battle THE saiyan himself.
In the movie Freeza was the one who killed Paragus. I don’t know if Broly knows that though since he wasn’t himself when it happened.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:57 pm

I don't think GoD Mode is gonna happen, the anime making its way into the manga already happened, and ended, with kaioken. Probably is something like rage control, the opposite of the calmness of UI, which he complained about, with no visible changes I hope.

I also feel Beerus is changing for the better, IIRC, it's the first time we see him hitting the gym, and even "inviting" a ningen to train with him. Did he ever watch Whis training Goku and Vegeta? he spent most of the chapter witnessing just that. Perhaps Goku attaining UI has touched a nerve.

Could this mean Vegeta is now a decent sparring partner for Beerus? I doubt Beerus has his own agenda regarding Vegeta's improvement.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MCDaveG » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:34 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:58 am
MCDaveG wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:47 am
Ah yes, we are missing purple as a new SSJ form... :roll:
What I'd like to see is Vegeta's hair change to purple only when he charges his energy or charges an attack. Not full purple even, bur rather very dark that goes with a new aura.
I would like it to be like SSJ Blue Kaioken.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Gogeta SSJ Blue » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:41 pm

MCDaveG wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:34 pm
Matches Malone wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:58 am
MCDaveG wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:47 am
Ah yes, we are missing purple as a new SSJ form... :roll:
What I'd like to see is Vegeta's hair change to purple only when he charges his energy or charges an attack. Not full purple even, bur rather very dark that goes with a new aura.
I would like it to be like SSJ Blue Kaioken.
But instead of the red aura make it purple?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by pepd » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:42 pm

emperior wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:57 am
As for Zuno, I just realized that what the Heeters want to do is not get intel from 73i to his whereabouts, but to go there with 73i and have him copy Zuno so that they can have all the intel they want whenever they want.
Imagine if they would have to kiss 73 for him to give them info

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:51 pm

The Undying wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:23 pm
Lionel wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:23 am
Can we have some of other characters involved with this continual martial progression we see in chapters?
If we go that route, we need to do it with newer characters at this point. The previous arc already showed the structural ramifications of trying to shoehorn old side characters into stories they clearly didn't belong to placate fans. It doesn't work.

Broly's a good start because he was implied to (potentially) have become re-integrated into Freeza's army, and Freeza himself is already a given, so he already feels more relevant. It also helps that there's more room to have him grow as a character than someone like Yamcha or Tenshinhan.
Those characters would have to be properly developed and incorporated into the narrative. Popularity seems to be another facet that Toyotaro and Toriyama are concerned with assessing for a potential addition to the cast. I don't see that draw factor as it stands with the likes of Hit, Jiren, or the Universe 6 Saiyans. Broly, like you said, has been speculated on as a potential permanent add-on but really? Conceptually he's older than Goten and Trunks with an appeal factor that looks quite stale sans his defying his very own archetype by tempering himself and learning to control his strength.

Personally, I think at least Gohan and Piccolo should be cultivated as additions since they do have the precedent and potential for it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:19 pm

It’s time to leave out Gohan, Piccolo and the other warriors on Earth out of the stories if they do not fit in.

What can they possibly add to this story? Their addition in the last arc was already quite forced. Let them stay sidelined and move on to the more interesting characters. And right now the most interesting, aside from Goku and Vegeta who are basically co-protagonists, are Freeza, the Heeter gang and Granolah. And with Broly being the wild card which could shift the balance in favor of whoever gets him on his side. Not to mention that, with the story set across space and beginning straight up after a Galactic Patrol focused arc, that they too could play a role (would be fun to see human Merus back to action).

I really hope that this arc, which feels very Star Wars-ish right now, more so than any other DB story set in space, won’t go back to Earth. Let the fights be on various planets, like Planet Freeza (where the base of his army is), Cereal, Vampa, the Heeter’s home planet or, heck, even Sadala if Granolah somehow ends up there.

And, considering how this is Dragon Ball we are talking about and the magical orbs are always part of the plot, then it would be time to move on from the Namekian created ones and have the villains actually chase the Super Dragon Balls to wish for Zeno’s throne and have domination over all the universes, or some other grander wish that standard DBs couldn’t grant.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The Monkey King » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:25 pm

Many a time I have come to this thread to make fun of the manga and point out where it's been lacking since the Goku Black arc ended.

But now I have to give credit where credit is due, that was perhaps THE BEST chapter Toyotato has written for the series.

The interactions between all the characters at Beerus' planet was perfect. Especially Beerus' "I won't teach you anything, but I won't stop you from watching me train..."

The sneaky way that gang wants to use Granola's rage against him so he dies trying to fight Freeza while they use 7-3 to gain information! Not just make an army of "big ki-blast" soldiers. Hell Toyo hasn't forgotten about Zuno after all.

And that potential Ozaru Bardock cameo was just a nice touch, not overbearing or fanservicey.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:49 pm

The Monkey King wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:25 pm
Many a time I have come to this thread to make fun of the manga and point out where it's been lacking since the Goku Black arc ended. But now I have to give credit where credit is due, that was perhaps THE BEST chapter Toyotato has written for the series.
This arc has a lot of potential to be one of the series' best. Although the Moro arc suffered from pacing issues, it was definitely a step in the right direction for Super, and this seems to not only continue that, but improve it as well.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Yuji » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:12 pm

It seems to me like some members are forgetting that this is a story. Characters do not "fit" in the stories they are in because they weren't written to fit, that is the case of the Moro arc's inclusion of the old Z cast. Gohan had a proper place in the Tournament of Power, so why couldn't an appropriate arc be written for the character in subsequent stories? The same with any other character whose arc seems to have ended. Toriyama has brought back future Trunks, Roshi, Freeza and #17 from metaphorical retirement, so why can't he or Toyotarou do the same with the main-stays from the classic cast?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by FoolsGil » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:13 pm

I will say this, the story is a bit interesting now, only complaint I have is if some guy who's been out of the loop for decades is somehow going to train himself to rival Goku and Freeza, you have to look at Tenshinhan, Piccolo, and maybe Gohan and be like "what the fuck are you doing wrong? Step it up."

I don't know how I feel about yet another Saiyan transformation though. I remember being in middle school when the AF craze was happening, and I saw this picture of SSJ4 Gohan and I was like "...but why though?" It just seemed excessive to me. And it was fans doing that, not some corporation who needs to endlessly color hair to make kids buy new toys.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:29 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:22 am
From Ajay:
So, to be clear, this is really just a fan recolour of existing artwork that Ajay wants to see become official, right?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:30 pm

The Monkey King wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:25 pm
Many a time I have come to this thread to make fun of the manga and point out where it's been lacking since the Goku Black arc ended.

But now I have to give credit where credit is due, that was perhaps THE BEST chapter Toyotato has written for the series.

The interactions between all the characters at Beerus' planet was perfect. Especially Beerus' "I won't teach you anything, but I won't stop you from watching me train..."

The sneaky way that gang wants to use Granola's rage against him so he dies trying to fight Freeza while they use 7-3 to gain information! Not just make an army of "big ki-blast" soldiers. Hell Toyo hasn't forgotten about Zuno after all.

And that potential Ozaru Bardock cameo was just a nice touch, not overbearing or fanservicey.
I thought things flowed smoothly. Toyotaro said that Toriyama did construct an "original draft" for this arc. Compared to last arc when he stated both "teamed up" for the story. I guess having a guide from Toriyama makes a difference. The Galactic Patrol arc was lacking in smooth transitions to me.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:32 pm

Magnificent Ponta wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:29 pm
Matches Malone wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:22 am
From Ajay:
So, to be clear, this is really just a fan recolour of existing artwork that Ajay wants to see become official, right?
This isn't official, but I don't know whether or not he wants this.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The Undying » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:33 pm

Lionel wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:51 pm
Those characters would have to be properly developed and incorporated into the narrative.
For aforementioned reasons, Broly potentially could be. While I wouldn't personally agree that he's "stale" as he's largely unexplored, his ties to Freeza are nonetheless cause enough to organically introduce him to the plot without making his inclusion feel forced. If they don't include him, that's also fine!

To be clear, none of the supports need to be "permanent" in the sense that they're just haphazardly thrown in every subsequent arc without regard for their own relevance in that story. Arbitrarily shoehorning the Universe 6 Saiyans or Hit/Jiren is just as unnecessary as doing the same for the Earthlings; the beauty of mainline Dragon Ball, particularly the original run, is its willingness to revolve its cast with newer additions as the series progresses, but more importantly in ways that don't bloat the intended narrative with retired or arc-irrelevant ancillary characters.

Writers should always tell the stories they want to tell without being beholden to a particular subset of fans (or fanboys, to be more precise). This isn't necessarily aimed at yourself, but routinely criticizing Toriyama or Toyotaro because they decided to exclude somebody's favorite side piece is a bad faith expectation. All stories should be judged on their own merits.
Lionel wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:51 pm
Personally, I think at least Gohan and Piccolo should be cultivated as additions since they do have the precedent and potential for it.
I think there's a right way and wrong way to do it, provided the writers want to cultivate them (in my view, GPP was the wrong way), but I don't believe Gohan and Piccolo are necessarily entitled to be cultivated. It really depends on the needs of the narrative.

Mainly, I just feel like there's more you can do from a development standpoint with newer characters than with older ones. That's not to say there aren't exceptions though.
Last edited by The Undying on Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:40 pm

So I do think that Granolah’s Sniper Eye will be very important. Its clearly either an homage or directly ties into the Kintoki One-Shot. As many others said having UI Goku with his Dodging and Granolah with his expert accuracy will make for some very interesting fights. I thought it was a great idea from the start and found it a very obvious but very interesting counter for UI.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:55 pm

DiscountDabi wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:40 pm
So I do think that Granolah’s Sniper Eye will be very important. Its clearly either an homage or directly ties into the Kintoki One-Shot. As many others said having UI Goku with his Dodging and Granolah with his expert accuracy will make for some very interesting fights. I thought it was a great idea from the start and found it a very obvious but very interesting counter for UI.
Didn’t even think of this you are right. I am getting excited just thinking about the possibility :)

I mean I think Goku will eventually beat Granolah but I also think Granolah may come out on top at first

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