"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Matches Malone]

Nobodies?

But Gohan and Piccolo fought that roid dude and even Moro...

If you can't even remember his name then you pretty much prove my point about him being a nobody.

[ZombieVito]

Nobodies?

But Gohan and Piccolo fought that roid dude and even Moro...

If you can't even remember his name then you pretty much prove my point about him being a nobody.

Honestly? I couldn't spell it lmao.

[Kagari]

His role as the leader int he anime was anything but 'fluff'.

If you're going to respond to me, address the points I made instead of retorting with irrelevant, poorly articulated examples that focus on isolated team-ups and have nothing to do with leading a team of fighters.

I just explained how it's little more than fruitless lipservice with some pretty detailed instances in the anime that show Gohan being incompetent, which you didn't actually address. Protecting Piccolo in some saccharine moment against two Namekian nobodies that have no chemistry with either of those characters isn't leading a team. Cooperating in combo attacks with Freeza (which isn't even in Freeza's character, by the way) isn't leading a team. Once again, the characters who were willing to cooperate with Gohan's role were the first to be eliminated and weren't coordinated in any way by Gohan's "leadership".

Pay attention to the story and stop exaggerating what happened because he's your favorite character.

I did pay attention to the story. It's spelled out quite plainly in fact. Characters making a couple minor mistakes don't take away from the good things they do do. Happened with everyone in the ToP.

The Namekians weren't nobodies, they were the final hope of U6 in the anime. To discount that is unfair and to say they didn't have chemistry with Gohan and Piccolo is also disingenuous because Piccolo himself becomes overwhelmed by their spirit. It's the reversal of his lessons to Gohan that help them win the day.

In any case, leadership doesn't always mean commanding people like a general on a battlefield whose orders are law, especially when your team is filled with very independent strong fighters who just work best moving about on their own. Sometimes leadership means analyzing the situation and figuring out the best way to make everything easier on your fellow independent fighters and heading straight forward into removing the more complicated obstacles you don't want your top powerhouses to waste time and energy on. That is what Gohan did.

[Matches Malone]

Honestly? I couldn't spell it lmao.

If learning to spell his name isn't worth your time then he must not be that important.

How are Saonel and Pirina nobodies? They are the strongest of U6 besides Hit and even got eliminated last.

Besides Hit, Cabba, Caulifla, Kale, Frost, Magetta, Botomo...yeah they're not all that strong when you think about it.

[ZombieVito]

Besides Hit, Cabba, Caulifla, Kale, Frost, Magetta, Botomo...yeah they're not all that strong when you think about it.

You do realize that Ultimate Gohan is Blue tier right?

You also do realize that the Namekians were fighting and holding their own against him right?

Hell, BASE fucking Gohan defeated Botamo.

What the fuck man.

[Matches Malone]

You do realize that Ultimate Gohan is Blue tier right?

Hell, BASE fucking Gohan defeated Botamo. What the fuck man.

Unfortunately.

He did ? I mean he did...of course he did, it's not like I fell asleep half the time during the tournament.

[ZombieVito]

Unfortunately.

He did ? I mean he did...of course he did, it's not like I fell asleep half the time during the tournament.

Not posting would have been a preferable response than this lame excuse of one.

Either you are trolling or can't admit you are wrong.

[Matches Malone]

Either you are trolling or can't admit you are wrong.

Of course I'm trolling, I honestly forgot about that part.

[MCDaveG]

About the supporting cast, I think it was kind of a step into the right direction. They took out the goons before the mains showed up.
Maybe, if their role was bigger, like when Vegeta even tough he was underpowered against Cell, helped Gohan to take Cell down.
Or Tenshinhan in Buu arc saving Gohan. Now it was Uub.

So I don't mind using them, please do so, but it would be nice to get the spotlight on some of them a bit more in the future.
What I loved about Buu arc as a kid and kept me in the seat when watching it on TV was the variety. We had Trunks and Goten that stepped in with Piccolo in mentor role, then we had Gohan, then Goku came in with Vegeta, introducing Vegetto. Man I loved it back then when I saw it for the first time. And all the characters were relevant at the moment, it was just that Buu was powering up constantly, taking the stakes higher and all the characters were able to keep up till some moment and even Goku was almost losing.

Now for me, it is just knowing, that Goku will step in and save the day. As much as I am not that that blown away by One Piece, the series has great writing for shonen, that it utilizes all the cast and you have them all progress with the main character and still being able to hold up with him in supporting role. I would love to see something like that in Dragon Ball instead of the kids being tossed off screen to some island and Gohan and co. just trying to survive several minutes against cannon fodder.
And I loved the anime version of Tournament of Power because of this, it made the wider cast relevant and I have immensely enjoyed the prelude to it, when Goku was recruiting the other characters and we saw some training and what they were up to.
Bring this back! Bring in Uub. Bring in time-skip and new costumes and character designs and man, we are in!

I will probably start watching One Piece again which I left during the Fishermen arc, as after 500+ episodes I had kind of fatigue, but the series gave me what I am missing in the new Dragon Ball stories.
Battle Of Gods movie and Tournament of Power are the highlights for me.

[The Undying]

I did pay attention to the story.

You spent two posts avoiding my actual points while rambling about things that had no relation to them. Either you weren't paying attention or you actually were being disingenuous.

Almost nothing that happens within the Tournament of Power's 30-something episode duration focuses on Gohan's artificial leader role. It might as well not be a thing; the majority of Universe 7's victories aren't even really contingent on it, and again, the team's initial losses were specifically from characters who were looking to Gohan for command. You can't suddenly shift the goalpost to some completely different definition of leading a team when those very same characters I mentioned explicitly talked about adhering to Gohan's leadership/guidance. It is about commanding people because they talked about that in the recruitment episodes.

Whether you want to admit it or not, the fighters who decided to follow Gohan's orders were the same fighters to be eliminated first. Your inability to recognize that is immaterial.

To discount that is unfair and to say they didn't have chemistry with Gohan and Piccolo is also disingenuous because Piccolo himself becomes overwhelmed by their spirit.

What does that even mean?

The Universe 6 Namekians have no connection to Gohan or Piccolo. I don't give a shit about Toei's "spirit overwhelming" whatever-it-is to force pointless drama where it doesn't make a difference between either of these characters or work to establish any kind of relationship. Why would Piccolo's spirit be overwhelmed? Why is a character known for his resolve suddenly getting weak knees against two random Namekians to prop up Gohan?

I have no reason to be invested in characters that have to be specifically written out of character to force some sappy character drama where it doesn't contribute to the underlying narrative.

If you can't even remember his name then you pretty much prove my point about him being a nobody.

To be fair, I can barely remember anyone's name in that arc myself. Sure does say a lot about how forgettable Moro's goons (and their filler fights) were.

[Matches Malone]

What I loved about Buu arc as a kid and kept me in the seat when watching it on TV was the variety. We had Trunks and Goten that stepped in with Piccolo in mentor role, then we had Gohan, then Goku came in with Vegeta, introducing Vegetto. Man I loved it back then when I saw it for the first time. And all the characters were relevant at the moment, it was just that Buu was powering up constantly, taking the stakes higher and all the characters were able to keep up till some moment and even Goku was almost losing.

We definitely need more of this kind of writing. The biggest problem now is that we already know ahead of time that things are going to come down to Goku and Vegeta saving the day, as everyone else are basically glorified cheerleaders. Back then, things were constantly shifting between characters, resulting in outcomes that weren't easy to predict, especially in the Cell and Buu arcs.

[Jiren The Alpha]

What I loved about Buu arc as a kid and kept me in the seat when watching it on TV was the variety. We had Trunks and Goten that stepped in with Piccolo in mentor role, then we had Gohan, then Goku came in with Vegeta, introducing Vegetto. Man I loved it back then when I saw it for the first time. And all the characters were relevant at the moment, it was just that Buu was powering up constantly, taking the stakes higher and all the characters were able to keep up till some moment and even Goku was almost losing.

We definitely need more of this kind of writing. The biggest problem now is that we already know ahead of time that things are going to come down to Goku and Vegeta saving the day, as everyone else are basically glorified cheerleaders. Back then, things were constantly shifting between characters, resulting in outcomes that weren't easy to predict, especially in the Cell and Buu arcs.

Universe 6 tournement, Future Trunks arc and TOP: Let me tell you something.

[SupremeKai25]

What I loved about Buu arc as a kid and kept me in the seat when watching it on TV was the variety. We had Trunks and Goten that stepped in with Piccolo in mentor role, then we had Gohan, then Goku came in with Vegeta, introducing Vegetto. Man I loved it back then when I saw it for the first time. And all the characters were relevant at the moment, it was just that Buu was powering up constantly, taking the stakes higher and all the characters were able to keep up till some moment and even Goku was almost losing.

We definitely need more of this kind of writing. The biggest problem now is that we already know ahead of time that things are going to come down to Goku and Vegeta saving the day, as everyone else are basically glorified cheerleaders. Back then, things were constantly shifting between characters, resulting in outcomes that weren't easy to predict, especially in the Cell and Buu arcs.

Did you predict that Hit would concede against Monaka?

Did you predict that Zamasu would merge with the cosmos and kill everyone?

Did you predict that 17 would win the Tournament of Power?

Did you predict that Moro would merge with the Earth?

[TheSaiyanGod]

Gohan also prepared for Moro but in typical Toyo fashion, we never saw it. I'm sure Toei will correct this.

There is nothing to correct. It would be nice to see the training, but it doesn't damage the story in any way, especially since the Z Fighters don't have character arcs that connect to the main narrative. This training culminates only in what Piccolo says to Goku "no point in training when we still can't defend the Earth".

It would be much more beneficial to see the training between Goku and Merus to strengthen the connection and the relationship between them. Like others, I would like to see the Earth Warriors in action but only if Toyotaro and Toriyama are really willing to develop their characters or use them in a way more relevant to the main plot, if not then it will just feel like unecessary padding

And Vegeta's role is absolutely artificial in the sense that the main story beats aren't about him. They're about Goku's journey as this is Goku's story and not Vegeta's. It was nonsense in the manga for only Vegeta to fight Goku Black, just as an example. There's no reason behind it other than Toyotaro removing the chemistry between Goku and Black because of his own desires.

I have my problems with the final execution of the fight between Vegeta and Moro and in relation to some directions they took with his character, but this is absolutely incorrect. There is an ACTUAL arc character for him in these stories, and in fact Toyo even found a new ground to explore it both in terms of motivation and powers in the Moro arc. He has established themes that are connected with the both main plot and the main villains (and I'm not just talking about Moro)

[MCDaveG]

Gohan also prepared for Moro but in typical Toyo fashion, we never saw it. I'm sure Toei will correct this.

There is nothing to correct. It would be nice to see the training, but it doesn't damage the story in any way, especially since the Z Fighters don't have character arcs that connect to the main narrative. This training culminates only in what Piccolo says to Goku "no point in training when we still can't defend the Earth".

It would be much more beneficial to see the training between Goku and Merus to strengthen the connection and the relationship between them. Like others, I would like to see the Earth Warriors in action but only if Toyotaro and Toriyama are really willing to develop their characters or use them in a way more relevant to the main plot, if not then it will just feel like unecessary padding

Also this! For the others to keep up - with Gohan it is easy, you can say that he has potential unlocked and if he trains, he just goes tiers up and maybe can tackle the same levels of Goku and Vegeta (either by getting hang of God ki or sometimes that fits him more, like UI).

But Kuririn, Piccolo, Tenshinhan and Yamcha (even tough he's more of an old-timer that can just tell stories to kids) will need some power-up.
And it was established in manga that everyone can achieve Ultra Instinct? Doesn't help design wise that everyone except for Yamcha is technically bald

But I would love to see some high stakes, beyond EOZ, with more supporting cast. But it's like after seeing the Last Jedi in the cinema... I liked the movie, but it was such conclusive one for me, that I had no idea where the next episode can actually progress forward.

Again, I would love to see some Saint Seiya mechanics... everyone has to defeat some general or any other being on a path to save something, or get to the main bad threat instead of tadaaa, here is Goat Man versus Son Goku and everyone powers up and changes the hair or face design again.
I have high hopes for this arc that after the Best of Dragon Ball and Yay, we can finally write some original arc so let's go trough basics and DB tropes, we will get something interesting and maybe (even tough I doubt that), something game changing.

What I really like so far, that Xeno and the guards with High Priest are top tier beings that nobody can surpass, as we are at the top of God hiearchy (not even Whis was surpassed yet and I hope it stays like that).

[OrangeBanana]

This is going to be such a dumb post but whatever.
I was looking at Granola's design and I am probably wrong but his design looks like it was made with a transformation in mind. I can totally see his hair either growing in length or becoming sharper. I've never designed characters so I don't know if this kind of stuff is planned or at least considered in the creative process.

[SupremeKai25]

This is going to be such a dumb post but whatever.
I was looking at Granola's design and I am probably wrong but his design looks like it was made with a transformation in mind. I can totally see his hair either growing in length or becoming sharper. I've never designed characters so I don't know if this kind of stuff is planned or at least considered in the creative process.

It's not a dumb post. Sometimes there are key elements in the design of a character that foreshadow a future transformation. For example, it was super predictable from the beginning that Goku Black would fuse with someone else, because he only had one Potara earring. The writers obviously had Fusion in mind. I don't know if this is the case with Granolah, but Yes sometimes the characters are purposefully designed to hint/foreshadow a new form.

[Matches Malone]

Did you predict that Hit would concede against Monaka?

Did you predict that Zamasu would merge with the cosmos and kill everyone?

Did you predict that 17 would win the Tournament of Power?

Did you predict that Moro would merge with the Earth?

I'm not talking about the actual plots, but rather which Z fighters will take part in the final battle. Due to the massive power difference between Goku and Vegeta and everyone else, we can easily see that those 2 are the ones people will rely on in the end, unlike before when things could go any way.

[SupremeKai25]

Did you predict that Hit would concede against Monaka?

Did you predict that Zamasu would merge with the cosmos and kill everyone?

Did you predict that 17 would win the Tournament of Power?

Did you predict that Moro would merge with the Earth?

I'm not talking about the actual plots, but rather which Z fighters will take part in the final battle. Due to the massive power difference between Goku and Vegeta and everyone else, we can easily see that those 2 are the ones people will rely on in the end, unlike before when things could go any way.

So I'm asking you again.

Did you predict that Monaka would be the one to "defeat" Hit?

Did you predict that Future Trunks would be the one to deal the greatest blow to Fused Zamasu?

Did you predict that Frieza and 17 would play a major role in the final battle against Jiren?

Did you predict that Uub would play a major role in Moro's defeat?

[Matches Malone]

So I'm asking you again.

No, but that's not what I'm talking about. What I'm saying is that due to the massive power gap between the 2 saiyans and everyone else, the chances of anyone but them taking down the main villain are slim to none (although Future Trunks was an exception in the anime). If someone like Gohan or Piccolo started training and receiving serious attention, then we wouldn't be so sure things would be up to Goku and Vegeta to decide.