"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:11 pm

I think people should lower their expectations about expecting some kind of deeper connection between Goku and Granolah or something like "Goku being tormented by his past". The Broly movie has already shown how much he and Vegeta are not interested in Paragus's grudge and revenge on something that happened decades ago.

They were also not remotely interested in knowing the reason for this desire for revenge. Bardock may have a bigger role than expected in this story, but I don't particularly think that Toriyama cares to show that side and we saw that in the last film.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:16 pm

I don’t think Granolah is evil but as he referred to the Saiyans as “Barbarous Apes” and said he lost both his avenues for revenge. Hence he regrets not being able to get revenge

As soon as he hears Freeza is alive he is ecstatic that he will have a chance to avenge his people. He is not happy to stop Freeza because Freeza is evil.

So thinking he will be reasonable and not want revenge against Goku & Vegeta because they aren’t bad guys seems unrealistic based on how he behaved and things he says during this chapter.

I also don’t think Goku will be “tormented by this”. It’s not like Goku doesn’t know what the Saiyans were. He knows Vegeta who he is now friends with; did many awful things in his past too. So no I don’t think Goku will be tormented at all with knowledge this his birth father a Saiyan killed Granolah’s people. But that doesn’t mean Granolah will be reasonable.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:48 pm

Goku "tormented".

Ha.

The same Goku who let a genocidal warlord who destroyed multiple worlds go free because he wanted to fight him again.

The same Goku who tried to spare a monster goat who devoured countless galaxies.

People need to understand that the protagonists of this series are not good people. Even Toriyama said multiple times that Goku is selfish and foolish. He wouldn't give a shit if Granolah told him that his parents destroyed his homeworld, because he's not a good person. He'd probably just divert the argument into being about fighting, as usual.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:19 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:48 pm Goku "tormented".

Ha.

The same Goku who let a genocidal warlord who destroyed multiple worlds go free because he wanted to fight him again.

The same Goku who tried to spare a monster goat who devoured countless galaxies.

People need to understand that the protagonists of this series are not good people. Even Toriyama said multiple times that Goku is selfish and foolish. He wouldn't give a shit if Granolah told him that his parents destroyed his homeworld, because he's not a good person. He'd probably just divert the argument into being about fighting, as usual.
I don’t actually see anyone saying Goku will be tormented. Just everyone agreeing he won’t

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:37 pm

Kinokima wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:27 pmBut if they ever did decide to bring back Bardock that would be one of the worst jumping the shark moments ever.
But we can survive that, can't we? How many bad "jumping the shark" moments we've got just in the past few years? Yet here we are.
Kinokima wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:27 pmBardock was never alive to us in the first place. He is always meant to be a character that was lost
So does every character that returned (except maybe for Trunks and Vegetto, who were technically alive, but whatever, point stands). Broly's situation is even worse, since he didn't even exist in this dimension.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:38 pm

the idea of bringing bardock back is stupid .. that only DB Heros happens for fanservice fighting with gogeta ... we knowing the author will make something much simpler than what I already mentioned
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:43 pm

Grimlock wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:37 pm So does every character that returned (except maybe for Trunks and Vegetto, who were technically alive, but whatever, point stands). Broly's situation is even worse, since he didn't even exist in this dimension.
No and I think you missed the point I made. Yes I know characters have come back from the dead in DB many times. I meant Bardock was never alive to us. He was a character that has always been dead who we have only seen through brief flashbacks

Bringing him back would be the epitome of pointless bad writing

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by YamiGoku » Sat Jan 23, 2021 7:52 pm

I dont think they are going to revive Bardock, I just think toyotaro is going to connect Granola's past with Bardock. to him and Goku in the present because of father/son looking alike.
the most I see happening is Bardock having a very short mini arc in the past, but it may end up being just 1-2 flashbacks.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by precita » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:51 pm

Anything with Bardock in the present day (not counting flashbacks which are fine), would be the biggest jump the shark moment in Dragon Ball history and the last straw that finally breaks the camels back.

There is no return from that. The Dragon Ball franchise will finally be creatively bankrupt and any goodwill Super has will have gone completely down the drain.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Ziegander » Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:23 pm

lol you guys, look, you know I've been one of THE most vocal critics of Toyo's writing and his ability to plot a full, coherent, interesting arc, but if you think bringing Bardock back into the present story would ruin Dragon Ball for you, I just don't understand you all anymore.

There are myriad directions in which Toyo could take the story that would not only make bringing Bardock back work, but could also make it interesting and, in my humble opinion, super fucking cool. Chill out for a second on the oddly indefensible Bardock freak out. It is not very likely that Toyo will be using Bardock beyond the easter egg we've seen in the arc already, but even if Toyo did choose to (again, I highly doubt it), why would that, of all things, that, be the end of the world? He's done much worse. Calm down.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:45 pm

Ziegander wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:23 pmHe's done much worse. Calm down.
I know, right? Somehow Bardock being brought back means the end of the world. Not Freeza, Broly, Trunks, Vegetto... For some reason they all can get a safe pass and are welcome, but not Bardock. :eh:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:04 am

Bardock could easily just be a cameo or an easter egg here, just as he was in Broly. Even so, I've been expecting a Bardock comeback storyline for a long time. After Broly, he's the next logical step- they're the two most popular Saiyans outside of the main cast and an easy "hype" pull. And it's also the one big "what-if" storyline for Dragon Ball that's never been pulled- Goku actually meeting his dad.

I'm not saying it's going to happen here- to his credit, Toyo is clearly focusing on Granola as the major player- but I'm saying it could eventually.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:55 am

Grimlock wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:45 pm
Ziegander wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 11:23 pmHe's done much worse. Calm down.
I know, right? Somehow Bardock being brought back means the end of the world. Not Freeza, Broly, Trunks, Vegetto... For some reason they all can get a safe pass and are welcome, but not Bardock. :eh:

Yes Bardock would be worse. With the exception of Freeza none of those characters were dead (And I think bringing back Freeza after all this time was pretty stupid too)


It’s weird when you say something is really bad writing that you are accused of “over exaggerating and freaking out” . It’s my opinion and I am going to stick with it. I don’t hate Bardock. I hate bad fan service.

As for Goku never meeting Bardock that is the point.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MCDaveG » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:24 am

Kinokima wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:23 pm Bringing Bardock back to life would be the dumbest thing they could ever do. So I hope they never consider that

But yeah I like how Bardock can be part of the story through the past
It’s simmilar to how they did it in the Freeza arc. I wonder if we will get call out on Goku and Bardock looking the same as well. But Goku can’t be Oozaru anymore :)
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OrangeBanana » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:34 am

It seems everyone is expecting (or at least most people) that Granola will throw down with Goku and Vegeta, but I wonder if Toriyama will go that route as I could see this becoming a cell arc situation where at first you thought the androids were the main villain but NO it was Le Bug Man.
Like I can totally see the arc having Granola become pretty strong in order to kill Goku, Vegeta and Frieza, but then having to put his revenge aside and side with them to defeat the big bad of this story, maybe afterwards he joins the galactic patrol where he protects others to stop the same thing that happened to him and his race happen to others.
But who could this big bad be??? Personally my bet is on Elec he seems like a person with universal scale ambitions. Him somehow using 73 to become strong af could work.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:36 am

Kinokima wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:55 amYes Bardock would be worse.
Hardly.
Kinokima wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:55 amWith the exception of Freeza none of those characters were dead
So? That's no excuse. None of them brought anything new to the table anyway.
Kinokima wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:55 amIt’s my opinion and I am going to stick with it.
By all means, be my guest. Not here to argue about that. I'm here just to tell you that if you can live with "X" and "Y" returning one after the other, you can live just fine with anyone coming back. "Z" would hardly cause any more harm than what's already been done.
Kinokima wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:55 amI don’t hate Bardock. I hate bad fan service.
You should hate everything about modern Dragon Ball, then. That's pretty much what moves this franchise forward.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:23 am

Grimlock wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:36 am
Kinokima wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:55 amYes Bardock would be worse.
Hardly.
Kinokima wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:55 amWith the exception of Freeza none of those characters were dead
So? That's no excuse. None of them brought anything new to the table anyway.
Kinokima wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:55 amIt’s my opinion and I am going to stick with it.
By all means, be my guest. Not here to argue about that. I'm here just to tell you that if you can live with "X" and "Y" returning one after the other, you can live just fine with anyone coming back. "Z" would hardly cause any more harm than what's already been done.
Kinokima wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:55 amI don’t hate Bardock. I hate bad fan service.
You should hate everything about modern Dragon Ball, then. That's pretty much what moves this franchise forward.
You keep acting like bringing Bardock back is the same as all these others examples. Bardock was NEVER alive in the story to begin with.

It would be the absolute worst example of fanservice possible. Who cares if Goku never gets to meet his real father. That’s the tragedy of the situation that he doesn’t even remember him.


And saying there were other examples of bad fanservice so I should be okay with more is a dumb argument.

I am cool with learning more about Bardock in the past through flash backs. But no it would be absolutely awful to revive him. Then what is he going to live again? Be part of the main cast? Are they going to kill him off again? Maybe he can be part of Freeza’s army again. :roll:

Like I don’t think the writers would pull something this dumb so I don’t know why I am even debating about this.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:58 pm

Kinokima wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:23 amYou keep acting like bringing Bardock back is the same as all these others examples. Bardock was NEVER alive in the story to begin with.

And saying there were other examples of bad fanservice so I should be okay with more is a dumb argument.
Is that what it sounds? Then let me be more clear: Not just Bardock, at this point, anyone (dead or alive) would be the same as all these other examples. Heck, we got yet another Broly movie for Dende's sake! After him, anyone's a fair game now. It's pointless to dictate which character returning would be the end of the world (for you, I may add). The wound is already opened and is as deep as you can get. All we can do is hope that they at least do something interesting.

If you don't like it, then what's one more (bad) fanservice in a land of (bad) fanservice? Being okay with that or not won't change anything either way.
Kinokima wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:23 amThen what is he going to live again? Be part of the main cast? Are they going to kill him off again? Maybe he can be part of Freeza’s army again. :roll:
Well, I'm not a creative person so I can't tell you what they could do with him, but as I saw someone stating in this forum: "Toriyama, Toyotaro and Toei are professional writers". If there is any sliver of truth to that statement, then I'm sure they can come up with something. Like I said, all we can do is put in their hands and trust that they'll do something cool.

Or they could just adapt Dragon Ball Online. Bardock is a supporter of the Time Patrol, helping from behind the curtains. That's a good role for him, if you ask me.
Kinokima wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:23 amLike I don’t think the writers would pull something this dumb so I don’t know why I am even debating about this.
Yeah, like I said in the previous page, the story so far isn't even trying to tell you that he might come back. So all this discussion, all your worries literally come from nowhere.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TobyS » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:14 pm

I think it'd be bad to make his return the focus of an arc but if it happens incidentally like in XV where Towa and Mira are just grabbing fighters to test power ups and brainwashing on and he joins the cast incidentally like how Goku got incidentally revived by elder Kaioshin in the buu arc that could work.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:19 pm

Grimlock wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:58 pm Yeah, like I said in the previous page, the story so far isn't even trying to tell you that he might come back. So all this discussion, all your worries literally come from nowhere.
I am not really sure where you got I was worried. I didn’t bring up that I thought Bardock was coming back to life. I don’t think that. I just commented on the possibility brought up by others in this very thread. And yes in my opinion I think it would be worse than all the other counter examples you brought up.

And apparently commenting on a forum is “freaking out”

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