"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[batistabus]

Why didn't the Freeza Army do anything with the planet after conquering it?

How could the Heeters swoop in?

My assumption is that Freeza contracted Heata to develop the planets after conquest.

[Yasai9001]

Why didn't the Freeza Army do anything with the planet after conquering it?

How could the Heeters swoop in?

My assumption is that Freeza contracted Heata to develop the planets after conquest.

Or it could be that Freeza has the planet up as a listing to be bought so he can get the highest bidders in competition to buy the planet. The Heeters are a valid squad and sure enough through their own way of business, have enough money to do big things such as buy worlds. They were the highest bidder and then proceeded to work on the planet and flipped it like people tend to flip houses to make great profit

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

That added lore in regard to the Namekian and their Dragon Balls has me pumped and hyped ♥

I love everything about it and leave great place for imagination.

[goku the krump dancer]

Loved this Chapter!! Aside from a few ugly panels, it was great!

[Lionel]

So many articulated thoughts that I agree with. Toyotaro's elaboration on the Namekian species and their impact on the broader universe is fascinating and, as others mentioned, fits well with the reputation they've been given by others. I only hope that its presentation proves something more substantive besides a vehicle for Granolah's wish and his Namekian roomate.

Have to admit, I'm enjoying Vegeta's characterisation right now. Originally in Toriyama's manga the root of Vegeta's penitence had to do with the family he had come to form and the people whom he killed in the tournament stands. It's like with the introduction of Moro we've been getting this introspective Vegeta who is looking to the broader picture of his life's actions as a former cutthroat who would eagerly massacre millions on a world for pleasure and profit. Now contrast that with the hard-hitting guidance by Beerus who is looking to hone the edge of his spirit and we're set with an interesting dichotomy of outlooks.

So how is Granolah looking right now? It doesn't seem like he's a sociopath but we can see that he's willing and ready to go to lengths to carry out his personal vendetta against Freeza. I can actually see some parallels between him and early Zamasu in the sense of them being curious as to what they should do in light of the barriers set before their path of righting wrongs. I just hope he doesn't devolve into the ear-to-ear Cheshire cat lunatic Zamasu became.

[LoganForkHands73]

I'm very impressed with this chapter. The lore about Zalama being the creator of the Super Dragon Balls has always been perplexing but the reveal that they actually come from another realm altogether... that's fascinating. I was thinking about the mysterious "Dragon Realm" Goku is implied to ascend to in GT. Even though we've seen the home realms of the highest gods in the multiverse, the idea of the realm that Shenron and Porunga go to when they're not being summoned by Dragon Balls is still titillating (mainly because we don't see it at all... that's always a cheap way to drum up interest). It's great that they seem to be implicitly revisiting a similar concept for the Namekian species as a whole -- these homeless Space Hebrews with great mystical knowledge, from a realm long forgotten.

While the worldbuilding is appreciated, the character building is next level. I'm glad my thread about Beerus wasn't made in vain because we got some genuine development in this chapter as I'd hoped, as well as a glimpse at his serious, scary side. First off, it occurred to me that the thread of Beerus hiding his role in Planet Vegeta's destruction has been in play since 2013, nearly eight years ago now. And now, finally, Beerus drops the bombshell on Vegeta, their relationship will be forever changed. For the longest time, that controversial bit of lore seemed like a throwaway gag at best but it's nice to see it followed up on in a dramatic way. As for the nature of the supposed retcon, keep in mind that Beerus SUGGESTED Freeza destroy the planet. He didn't order him to do it. Freeza's motivations for wanting the Saiyans eradicated remain the same as they always were.

Beerus's lecture to Vegeta is perfect and reveals a lot about his character. As I've analysed before, Beerus has devolved into a bit of brainless joker, but now we know that the dude literally thinks about destruction non-stop and that's how he's attained such power. It's a great contrast against Ultra Instinct which embodies emptiness of the mind. His assessment and dressing-down of Vegeta is on point, the last arc clearly demonstrated that Vegeta has some serious guilty conscience about his past crimes. Vegeta has also been defining himself by his determination to go his own way and hold onto his convictions -- Beerus is now telling him to throw everything away and recreate himself anew, as all things in the universe must. The mortal that Beerus presumably once was had to die for Hakaishin Beerus to be born. That's gonna be a tougher pill to swallow than Ultra Instinct. It's also interesting that Beerus doesn't seem to show off any particular special technique, just plain old destruction, but only to once again demonstrate that the Saiyans are a million years off attaining this power. Basically, he gives Vegeta a beating and swings his big dick in his face. Classic.

Then of course we have Granola, who is still shaping up to be one of the greatest new additions. The idea of being the lone survivor of a catastrophe and seeing your destroyed home become the property of a completely alien culture... wow, when I put it like that, almost sounds like an anti-immigration allegory. Uh oh. I still buy the theory that Oatmeel is just a figment of Granola's imagination, as he conveniently shuts up whenever the old Namekian's in the room. Seeing as this new dragon only requires two balls and can grant one wish, I have a suspicion that the next issue will see him be unable to grant Granola's wish to be the strongest. We'll see.

Lastly, as Julie eloquently put, Freeza and his Empire are such a threatening, looming presence. Never seen but always felt. I hope that keeps up for a while.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I was thinking about the mysterious "Dragon Realm" Goku is implied to ascend to in GT. Even though we've seen the home realms of the highest gods in the multiverse, the idea of the realm that Shenron and Porunga go to when they're not being summoned by Dragon Balls is still titillating

Man, I hadn't even thought of there being a DBAF element behind this arc...

*Busily flips through it to see if there's anything to latch on to*

[Koitsukai]

This was awesome. I never thought they would have the balls to expand on the Dragon Balls lore. The namekians being more than just a Namek-based race, the DBs not always being 7, this is just great.

Planet Cereal still being a thing, introducing some of those "races that buy Freeza's planets". I never thought the old man living with Granola would end up being a namekian. I doubt Granola will get his wish, though. Looks like a red herring to me.

Vegeta getting trained by Beerus also promises a lot.

[Jables]

I'm veryThe lore about Zalama being the creator of the Super Dragon Balls has always been perplexing but the reveal that they actually come from another realm altogether... that's fascinating. I was thinking about the mysterious "Dragon Realm" Goku is implied to ascend to in GT. Even though we've seen the home realms of the highest gods in the multiverse, the idea of the realm that Shenron and Porunga go to when they're not being summoned by Dragon Balls is still titillating (mainly because we don't see it at all... that's always a cheap way to drum up interest). It's great that they seem to be implicitly revisiting a similar concept for the Namekian species as a whole -- these homeless Space Hebrews with great mystical knowledge, from a realm long forgotten.

LOL Space Hebrews. That's hilarious. So interesting your mind went to the Dragon Realm, my head immediately said "oh, okay, so they are originally from Universe 6 and they came to Universe 7 for some reason. I wonder if the Nemekians invented the Dragon Balls in Universe 6... and if so, do they still have them in Universe 6? Did they use those to leap from 6 to 7? So many questions.

Then of course we have Granola, who is still shaping up to be one of the greatest new additions. I still buy the theory that Oatmeel is just a figment of Granola's imagination, as he conveniently shuts up whenever the old Namekian's in the room. Seeing as this new dragon only requires two balls and can grant one wish, I have a suspicion that the next issue will see him be unable to grant Granola's wish to be the strongest. We'll see.

I hope it's not his imagination! My imagination is leading me to believe Cerealian's have a similar power to Namekians in that they can absorb members of their race, but the person they absorb/fuse with can still actively communicate with the host. Granolah and Oatmeel just sound like they have too much potential not to be a bad ass combo prior to the destruction of their race. I suspect you're right that he cannot make Granolah the strongest warrior in the universe, but perhaps he gives Granolah the potential to learn and adapt incredibly fast.

At some point I think we're going to get a moment much like Uub or Future Trunks seeing Goku power up for the first time, where Granolah is playing innocent but absolutely mind boggled there are people as powerful as Goku and Vegeta. Where then Goku and Vegeta immediately buy-in to the mentor approach. After briefly showing their power levels, Granolah learns and adapts to quickly out-pace them. *Fingers Crossed* would be an epic way to see Broly get brought into the series again - seeing the two of them fight it out and become incredibly powerful because of each other pushing them past their limits over and over and over again.

Over all, great chapter. Can't wait for the next.

[Jables]

LOL, if we get a scene of Young Vegeta working with Bardock I'm going to laugh. ♥

I wonder if we'll get a flashback. Toyo loves them, but Toriyama barely uses them

I'd love a fuller flashback to the fall of the Cerealites. Getting to see Vegeta and Bardock destroying them would be cool. Honestly, I think Vegeta just casually dropping that he actually knew Kakarotto's father would be funny. ♥

LOL. I never imagined this could be a reality but WOULD MAKE FOR SUCH A WILD MOMENT. Just a scoff from Vegeta and a "oh, you know, you do sort of look like this guy I fought with once. Never had a second thought about it though. You both just have stupid hair."

[ssj3kakarot]

Another "power that's not mastered easily" is introduced just to be mastered by the cast...easily.

So is it "Destruction power" as in Hakai, as in, the power that Goku already used once before? And Vegeta just went through his super duper spirit training delux package....i was hoping that his rage over the saiyans would at least landed a solid jab or something!

Its also werid that Goku and Vegeta are freaking out over Beerus blowing up a planet.

I get it, they have to correct the poor writing that has taken place. If you wanted the viewers to think Beerus was always the strongest, even after Goku mastered Ultra instinct, then don't have him freaking out and visibly showing the audience his emotions like he did, otherwise they lose credibility. When characters in Dragonball are stronger than someone else, and that someone else powers up, the stronger warriors dont flinch, they dont freak out, thats OUR que that they have the upperhand still. On a few occasions beerus demonstrated that he was nervous. Just seems meh!

[FishermanJohnWest]

If you are referring to the Gods of Destruction exhibition match, there was a point in which Goku couldn’t comprehend what was going on, so he probably missed important stuff.

Come on man, he couldn't see what's going on when all of them are fighting. However, when Beerus was fighting by himself and used UI he saw everyone and commented on it

Goku may have a basic understanding of how Beerus fights from that time, but this basic info is all he could comprehend at that moment. The fight later scalated to a level he couldn't see through. As this new chapter makes very clear, Goku's reactions say he has no idea how strong Beerus really is. Honestly, this is a beaten dead horse for quite a time.

Your relying on nothing but head canon

Goku says he saw Beerus


Goku says he isn't holding back


He couldn't see what's going on when they are started fighting at the same time



Broly is scaled to Beerus, he isn't scaled to 12 GoDs thus this point is plain false. Nothing escalated for Beerus at all, they all just stopped focusing on him.

And no, Goku saying you shouldn't mess with Beerus cause he randomly blew up a planet doesn't suggest at all he doesn't know his power. In another translation, he just says he is crazy

"Goku: Woah... Lord Beerus sure is scary!"

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

I haven’t felt this way about the series since I was watching the Future Trunks arc week to week. I love that I don’t know what’s going to happen next. I have no predictions.

I love all the new lore about the Namekians, what they’re setting up with Vegeta and pretty much everything to do with Granolah so far. I get some Mandalorian vibes from Granolah and I fucking love it. I’m hoping that Vegeta achieves something pretty significant during the arc and isn’t just built up to doing something cool for a chapter and then getting brushed aside.

I can’t wait to see how Freeza gets tangled up in all of this and I’m still holding out to see Broly make an appearance here somehow. This is a story involving the Saiyans and their history, so surely Broly will make an appearance... maybe... please...?

Waiting month to month for a chapter has been painful since this arc started. I don’t think I’ve ever enjoyed the Super manga this much.

[Hellspawn28]

I like that we have other Planets with Dragon Balls. This can explain on how Nappa and Vegeta knew about Nameks during the Saiyan saga. However, I'm not a fan of the design of Planet Cereal Shenrlong. It looks too similar to the Super Dragon Ball Shenlong if you ask me.

[DiscountDabi]

I like that we have other Planets with Dragon Balls. This can explain on how Nappa and Vegeta knew about Nameks during the Saiyan saga. However, I'm not a fan of the design of Planet Cereal Shenrlong. It looks too similar to the Super Dragon Ball Shenlong if you ask me.

For the Record the Dragon's Name is Toronbo. Just saying so we don't have to keep calling it "Planet Cereal Shenron"

[TKA]

I like the plot. I hate the presentation.

There are so many contrivances and "as you know..."s going on that my writer brain is going insane. There are better ways to deliver information to viewers/readers.

I was also very impressed that Toyotaro is so willing to introduce new lore that changes our understanding of the series, and then he immediately backpedaled with "yeah, a bunch of other Namekians lived elsewhere". The Toriyama way is to completely upend everything you thought you knew. Toyotaro's is more about expanding and weaving things together. As someone who was deep, deep, deep into the non-Disney Star Wars Expanded Universe, I can appreciate the Toyotaro style, but the Toriyama/George Lucas style just hits different and hits stronger.

But I digress on all that.

Interesting that Vegeta's character development in the original series is learning to stop being self-centered, and now him being a more empathetic person is being presented as a character flaw. He still doesn't give two shits about the Saiyans, as he said when he killed Dodoria, but now he cares about all the bad stuff they did, as evidenced in the previous arc. Looks like what Toyotaro is saying is that Vegeta needs a happy medium between Saiyan Arc Vegeta and End of Z Vegeta. That's new territory for the character. Let's see how that works out for him, Cotton.

Finally, at first I thought they were the black star dragonballs, then the next page showed a picture of the namekian dragonballs and they had the same dark colored star, as if Toyotaro was going "No, no, we're not doing that. Don't worry."

As an aside... this wish has gotta have a lot of drawbacks, otherwise there's no logic in nobody before making that wish. Or in the future making that wish whenever someone very strong shows up. Just gather the balls and wish to be stronger.

[SupremeKai25]

So how is Granolah looking right now? It doesn't seem like he's a sociopath but we can see that he's willing and ready to go to lengths to carry out his personal vendetta against Freeza. I can actually see some parallels between him and early Zamasu in the sense of them being curious as to what they should do in light of the barriers set before their path of righting wrongs. I just hope he doesn't devolve into the ear-to-ear Cheshire cat lunatic Zamasu became.

I'm guessing that Granolah will be redeemed due to the human connections he has with Vegeta.

It's not coincidental that a villain who seeks vengeance for the Saiyans' crimes is introduced right when Vegeta is feeling very guilty for the Saiyans' crimes. This will be a test both for Granolah and Vegeta.

As far as Zamasu is concerned, no one could sympathize with him except for Gowasu (and maybe Shin). He was a God, so he had no connections with the ningen protagonists. That's why he remained in the path of darkness and succumbed to madness. But since Granolah has connections with the Saiyans, he'll probably be redeemed after some corny story like "Granolah realized that not all Saiyans are evil and dropped his quest for revenge", or something like that.

It's also an established story fact that Goku sees the good in people and changes them, he changed even Frieza in some way, so the chances of Granolah getting redeemed are high.

I can also see parallels with early Zamasu, namely the fact that both of them are consumed by the desire for justice and vengeance. But I'm predicting Granolah will have the opposite character arc. While Zamasu has a negative character arc where he believes in his radical ideals more and more, Granolah will eventually go through a positive character arc and let go of his trauma.

[emperior]

Yeah I too believe that Granola will become another friend of Goku and company. He’s a genuinely good guy who is just on a quest for revenge. He’s not that different from Goku when he had to revenge Krillin and the others by defeating Piccolo Daimao, for example. So it’s very possible that with this arc seemingly touching on the “let go of the past” theme that Granola too will cease his quest, accept reality and move on towards different goals.

Yet both he and Vegeta have a common enemy in Freeza, whose chances of escaping this arc alive feel very thin.
As for the Heeters, they seem like normal businessmen who just care about making money but don’t seem like the type of guys to slaughter whole races to resell their planet, or else they would have already killed the Sugarians.

It’s basically impossible to predict how things will evolve, which is why this arc is so thrilling, but I would be willing to bet that even though Granola will probably fight Goku and Vegeta that he won’t be the actual villain of the arc.

[Jinto]

I hope for this arc to be a long one and go beyond EoZ. That would be neat and allow for better development and structure.

[LightBing]

Why didn't the Freeza Army do anything with the planet after conquering it?

How could the Heeters swoop in?

My assumption is that Freeza contracted Heata to develop the planets after conquest.

If that was the case Granolah wouldn't work for them, he would try to kill them. He might not know but I doubt it based on how it was presented.