"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Lord Beerus]

Random and scattered thoughts of Chapter 72:

- Really great artwork, panelling and fight choreography carry the chapter as a whole.

- Nice trick from Granolah using a clone to gauge Goku's strength and general prowess in combat to gain the upper hand in battle. And at the same time, establish he far stronger than he initially let off. Really creative way of taking Goku out of the battle. But there's a trade for this kind of scenario...

- ....There is now zero tension to Granolah fighting Vegeta. Because of how the narrative has set up Granolah to be a strong as he is, it's almost certain that Vegeta will get steamrolled, as usual. I mean, it's par for the course at this stage, I guess.

- Vegeta being an asshole and making light of genocide to the last member of a tribe that his own race wiped out wasn't the kind of development I was hoping for Vegeta.

Overall thoughts... this was 90% fighting but thankfully the fighting was excellent.

[Trek405]

Read the chapter. It was pretty good and I like the action and paneling. Not a big fan of granola's wish giving him access to so many techniques especially when the "cost" of his wish isn't much of a sacrifice all things considered.

Also vegeta provoking granola seems to be intentionally paralleling beerus doing the same to him earlier in the arc. I'm curious to see if it will lead to an interesting dynamic between the 2 while at the same time keeping my expectations low. Could very well lead nowhere

[Jack Bz]

Random thoughts:

1. It seems that the silver haired form's name is officially "perfected ultra instinct". Goku says "perfected ultra instinct" specifically to Granolah asking "what is that form". So I would say it's no longer accurate to refer to the forms as "ultra instinct sign" and "ultra instinct". It's "ultra instinct sign" and "perfected ultra instinct", and ultra instinct itself is a technique that can be used in any form.




2. Goku rebuts Granolah, saying that ultra instinct has no weaknesses in response to Granolah saying that no matter the transformation, everyone has an opening. This is confirmed when, after Goku transforms to perfected ultra instinct, Granolah says he can no longer see Goku's vitals/weak points. In regards to me saying earlier that accurate attacks to vital points are the weakness of ultra instinct, it seems to be more that they are a sign that the wielder of ultra instinct isn't using it perfectly, and that Granolah isn't seeing biological vital points per se, but openings and perfect places to strike at a specific point in time, based on both current movement and bloodflow of the target.

3. Perfected ultra instinct doesn't necessarily just have a stamina problem, it is also actually less efficient in the technique of ultra instinct the longer the form is sustained, which seems to have given Granolah an opening: "I knew I could find an opening eventually".

4. Goku doesn't seem to be using completed super saiyan blue until he starts using ultra instinct. He has an aura basically the whole battle until that point, which is a little odd. I guess it still maintains the hierarchy that no aura > aura for super saiyan blue. Toyo probably just wanted a pretty stark visual change.

5. Goku uses the same air blast technique he used against Moro to defeat the Granolah clone. So this technique seems to be some kind of hallmark of ultra instinct, along with the paralyzing telekinesis thing:

[Kinokima]

.
- ....There is now zero tension to Granolah fighting Vegeta. Because of how the narrative has set up Granolah to be a strong as he is, it's almost certain that Vegeta will get steamrolled, as usual. I mean, it's par for the course at this stage, I guess.

- Vegeta being an asshole and making light of genocide to the last member of a tribe that his own race wiped out wasn't the kind of development I was hoping for Vegeta.

Do you really think it’s going to be that predictable? If Vegeta was just going to get “steamrolled” why not let him go first? This doesn’t necessarily mean I think Vegeta is going to win (unless Granolah isn’t meant to be the arc’s main antagonist than maybe it is a bit more possible ) but I expect if he loses it will be because of something unforeseen then him just being too confident this time (though I am sure there is some of that too.) It’s possible he knows something about Granolah’s people’s weakness.

But I am pretty confident there is going to be more to the fight than just watching Vegeta get easily beaten down by Granolah. And as much as I really don’t like ending the chapter on that last line either I think there is more to It. He seems to purposely be trying to get Granolah riled up.

[BOEGVELD]

Overall great chapter. I liked the paneling and art, but I'm not a fan of how UIP is being treated. UI Sign has stamina issues because of its instability, but now UIP has the same issues. I'm expecting them to get rid of this issue at the end of this arc though, since that seems to be what they're foreshadowing here.

[Trouser]

Ok chapter. Nice drawings for the most part (except base Goku, Toyotarou draws him weird). Vegeta being asshole and talking big... Let's hope he won't get his royal ass kicked. As much as I like seeing Vegeta beaten when his big saiya ego starts talking, it would be too predictable and boring.
I'm liking Granolah's design more and more. It's sad that color scheme is meh.

[Alruneia]

I wonder if Vegeta's going to try and pull what I call the "Marron Method" (that's a Dragon Ball Ultimate reference, sorry) on Granolah. That is, he obviously can't win against Granolah in a direct fight, but he could mess with his emotions, make him so angry that he goes into a kind of blind rampage mode which makes him a worse fighter. A blind rampage is fittingly ironic for somebody with a sniper eye, too. An unwinnable battle is unwinnable, obviously, but I don't think Vegeta would be saved for last if he's just gonna perform even more poorly than Goku with nothing else happening.

[FortuneSSJ]

-Chapter 73-

There's too many speed lines in the forest part, but i like the way Goku defeated Granolah's clone.

Goku talking about he's lacking training to master UI is another good hint about what was Granolah's miscalculation. Granolah is the "strongest of the universe" right now, not forever.

There's not much else to say. The last chapters have been weakest part of this arc for me, which is ironic because fights are the main treat of this franchise. I'm tired of the seeing the same formula over and over. At least in the anime Toei can back up that with cool visuals and music, here Toyotaro is limited by the medium and his creativity

I want him to move past this fight as quick as possible and see what more this arc has to offer.

[Kinokima]

I wonder if Vegeta's going to try and pull what I call the "Marron Method" (that's a Dragon Ball Ultimate reference, sorry) on Granolah. That is, he obviously can't win against Granolah in a direct fight, but he could mess with his emotions, make him so angry that he goes into a kind of blind rampage mode which makes him a worse fighter. A blind rampage is fittingly ironic for somebody with a sniper eye, too. An unwinnable battle is unwinnable, obviously, but I don't think Vegeta would be saved for last if he's just gonna perform even more poorly than Goku with nothing else happening.

Yeah this is a good guess. I think it would also be the ultimate disappointment to have the second fight just be Vegeta loses because he is just being overly cocky again. From a story perspective what would even be the point of that?

I also really think Vegeta is trying in his own way to get through to Granolah he just realizes that talking it out isn’t going to work.

At the same time I am not really expecting it to be a clear win for Vegeta. But I also expect there is more to it than some people are expecting based on how things may appear.

[PurestEvil]

Random Thots:

-The art is fantastic
-I am interested in seeing what backup plan the Heeters have whipped up now that Vegeta has seen them through
-i guess the sugarians have never seen an explosion before...the heeters must have top notch safety regulations
-Seeing PUI Goku kick Granola's ass was quite satisfying ngl
-As much as I was amazed at Granola bamboozling Goku with his his Ki cloning technique...I am a tad confused. Was Granola always in his ship? If so, why did Vegeta and Goku not detect his two kis? Did Goku not detect Granola's other ki when he was looked down on him on the hillslope?
-Considering Vegeta's remarks, I hope that either he is trying to piss Granola off on purpose as a trick or there is something about the Cerelians/Granola that offend Vegeta personally because it honeslty contradicts his whole "remorse" arc.
EDIT: Also, Vegeta did not point at himself with his thumb (yet) so he might actually have a chance

[Xeogran]

I would like Vegeta to try using Hakai on Oatmeel
Wonder how Granolah would react to this, his only friend getting erased. We could also learn if it's an A.I. Eyepatch or a person who's contacting him from somewhere.

[ZodiacBeast]

I predict Vegeta is going to pull a Toppo "GoD Mode" (can't touch this!), and manga stans are going to be even more intolerable.

[Kinokima]

I would like Vegeta to try using Hakai on Oatmeel
Wonder how Granolah would react to this, his only friend getting erased. We could also learn if it's an A.I. Eyepatch or a person who's contacting him from somewhere.

Actually I keep forgetting about Oatmeel

It’s possible Vegeta will beat Granolah but then there is a twist with Oatmeel and Vegeta loses (that is if Oatmeel isn’t the crazy voice in Granolah’s head lol)

That being said it would be nice for his development even if Vegeta loses the fight if he does somehow get through to Granolah.

[BWri]

- Vegeta being an asshole and making light of genocide to the last member of a tribe that his own race wiped out wasn't the kind of development I was hoping for Vegeta.

It's fair game with Granolah being so smug and determined to commit what he believes is racial extinction himself.

The chapter opened strong with what I believe to be a callback to the Star Wars forest battle or the Piccolo vs. Salza scene from DBZ: Movie 5. The fight itself was pretty good, but Granolah's techniques still don't make a lick of sense to me. I think more could have been done narratively to connect him getting high level techniques from Moro included in his "potential".

-I dig Granolah's fighting style. Vital point focused combat is always fun to watch.
-Goku losing UI power so fast and becoming vulnerable seems like a copout.
-I knew Frieza was going to be the big focus of the arc. He's probably trained some more since Broly.
-Vegeta's gonna get scrubbed hard, but I wonder if he'll be responsible for Granolah losing a limb via Hakai.
-So did Granolah use multiform or what? Goku made it seem like he's never seen this before.
-What's up with the 2nd Granolah in the ship? Was that one there for a fakeout? Were there 3 Granolah's or 2? 1 to fight, 1 to watch, and 1 with a healthy body to fuse back into? Dammit, that was my idea for martial arts master Tien!!!!
-Fun chapter overall, but Granolah is weird. Does he really need access to Moro's stuff or other godly techniques at this point? I like him without that stuff.

My favorite moment was Goku using telekinesis on Granolah in his UI form and punching him with air. It really made him look godly.

[Jackalope89]

- Vegeta being an asshole and making light of genocide to the last member of a tribe that his own race wiped out wasn't the kind of development I was hoping for Vegeta.

It's fair game with Granolah being so smug and determined to commit what he believes is racial extinction himself.

The chapter opened strong with what I believe to be a callback to the Star Wars forest battle or the Piccolo vs. Salza scene from DBZ: Movie 5. The fight itself was pretty good, but Granolah's techniques still don't make a lick of sense to me. I think more could have been done narratively to connect him getting high level techniques from Moro included in his "potential".

-I dig Granolah's fighting style. Vital point focused combat is always fun to watch.
-Goku losing UI power so fast and becoming vulnerable seems like a copout.
-I knew Frieza was going to be the big focus of the arc. He's probably trained some more since Broly.
-Vegeta's gonna get scrubbed hard, but I wonder if he'll be responsible for Granolah losing a limb via Hakai.
-So did Granolah use multiform or what? Goku made it seem like he's never seen this before.
-What's up with the 2nd Granolah in the ship? Was that one there for a fakeout? Were there 3 Granolah's or 2? 1 to fight, 1 to watch, and 1 with a healthy body to fuse back into? Dammit, that was my idea for martial arts master Tien!!!!
-Fun chapter overall, but Granolah is weird. Does he really need access to Moro's stuff or other godly techniques at this point? I like him without that stuff.

My favorite moment was Goku using telekinesis on Granolah in his UI form and punching him with air. It really made him look godly.

The air punches were straight from Xenoverse 2. UI Goku in that gets that kind of punch as a move, which is one of the more fun moves to use.

I know Vegeta has really come around over the years, but I can't but wonder if his pride will make him tell Granolah that he's the Prince of Saiyans. That would make things rather interesting, depending on how Vegeta portrays himself.

Combining UI with Super Saiyan? Can't say I like it. Its like combining Kaioken with Super Saiyan for me.

[ZombieVito]

Guess Toyo doesn't care anymore if Completed Blue has an aura or not lmao.

[BOEGVELD]

Now that I'm looking back at this "spoiler", it might be talking about Goku instead. "If he masters YY, he'll become Guldo!" During this chapter Goku started talking needing more training to completely master UI. What if he'll unlock time stopping abilities once he masters UI? It's probably a reach though lmao.

https://twitter.com/DBSChronicles/statu ... 76995?s=19

[DiscountDabi]

Now that I'm looking back at this "spoiler", it might be talking about Goku instead. "If he masters YY, he'll become Guldo!" During this chapter Goku started talking needing more training to completely master UI. What if he'll unlock time stopping abilities once he masters UI? It's probably a reach though lmao.

https://twitter.com/DBSChronicles/statu ... 76995?s=19

I think he was just talking about the Telekinesis where he froze Granolah

[PurestEvil]

Now that I'm looking back at this "spoiler", it might be talking about Goku instead. "If he masters YY, he'll become Guldo!" During this chapter Goku started talking needing more training to completely master UI. What if he'll unlock time stopping abilities once he masters UI? It's probably a reach though lmao.

https://twitter.com/DBSChronicles/statu ... 76995?s=19

Well Whis knows how to turn time backwards. I think's your theory is plausible, but improbable.

[jd55513]

It's so obvious what's about to happen imo.
Vegeta is gonna taunt Granolah and mess with his fighting composure (your mindset can effect your fighting power).
This is from Toriyama outline of the spiritual components of ki. Genki, Shoki and Yuki.

Then Vegeta will use the Toppo God of Destruction form, and manifest a hakai armor to prevent Granolah from hitting his vitals.
Unfortunately for Vegeta, his miscalculation is that Granolah.....has Hakai too.

Granolah will just Hakai Vegetas Hakai blast and armor, getting nowhere for them both.
Until, Granolah reveals he can use UI too.
His burst of speed and power will overwhelm them and perhaps, then the Heeter stuff will occur.

Let's hope Toyo doesn't hold this obvious foreshadowing for too long.