"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Mr Baggins
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mr Baggins » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:42 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:10 pm Vol 13 has SSB Vegeta in the same color tone as ''regular'' Blue, and you could argue that the darker shade of his hair in vol 9 was due to the also darker shade of the backcover.
With these two comparisons in mind? I don't think so. Also, Vegeta exclusively uses "Evolved" Blue against Moro in Volume 13.

Moreover, this is how the colorized editions compare them. Their hair texture is shinier than how Toyotaro tends to color them (with the exception of this new volume, apparently) but like the covers, the difference in shade is so slight you need a keen eye to notice it.

With that said, this cover is the most differentiated the two variations of Blue have ever looked.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:41 pm

Mr Baggins wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:42 am With these two comparisons in mind? I don't think so. Also, Vegeta exclusively uses "Evolved" Blue against Moro in Volume 13.
You're right, I didn't remember the back cover with Vegetto and I actually never noticed this subtle difference in Blue's tone in these two volumes (5 and 13), nice catch. Although I would say that vanilla SSB's tone in the current volume is also slightly stronger/sharper than seen in vol 5 (not as much the difference with Vegeta's Evo Blue in vol 13 tho)


But I guess I attribute this to Toyo's change over these volumes (hence why we're seeing Evolved Blue also in a different tone compared to previous volumes)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:55 am

Volume 17 back cover:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Gt91 » Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:21 am

New interview

https://en.dragon-ball-official.com/news/01_718.html

Interesting stuff for bardock, plus colored version of Ultra Ego at jump festa!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MCDaveG » Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:39 am

What about Bardock?
If he really comes back, it will be culmination of every fans during the AF hoax time, where people in Europe were sharing stuff like Bardock coming back etc. as the TV Specials weren't really known here :lol:
Was thinking about it a bit and Super is basically DBAF coming true... new forms with colours of silver, blue, pink, magenta, etc. check.
Amalgamation of previous villains, check. "Fanmade" designs made by Toyotaro, check.
It is crazy actually when you think about it.

I love the galactic patrolman called Dryfish.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:57 am

Ultra Ego was Toyotaro's design and idea. Got the ok from Toriyama after he explained it to him. His design is based off Beerus like how Toyotaro assumes Goku's silver hair is based off of Angels.

Bardock's inclusion was also a Toyotaro idea. He asked Toriyama questions about his personality and ultimately got the ok to insert him. He's apparently an important part of this arc.

Toyotaro revealed previously that he also designed Granolah right? Knowing all this, how much of this story did Toriyama actually write? Because it sounds just like the creation of the Moro arc, where it's mostly Toyo with some Tori ideas.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MCDaveG » Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:15 am

OLKv3 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:57 am Ultra Ego was Toyotaro's design and idea. Got the ok from Toriyama after he explained it to him. His design is based off Beerus like how Toyotaro assumes Goku's silver hair is based off of Angels.

Bardock's inclusion was also a Toyotaro idea. He asked Toriyama questions about his personality and ultimately got the ok to insert him. He's apparently an important part of this arc.

Toyotaro revealed previously that he also designed Granolah right? Knowing all this, how much of this story did Toriyama actually write? Because it sounds just like the creation of the Moro arc, where it's mostly Toyo with some Tori ideas.
Yeah, even half of the Gods of Destruction and many ToP designs were done by Toyo.
As much as I miss Toriyama and I am a purist in some way, I think that Toyo is better at designs that fit the contemporary look of Dragon Ball that stems from Cell and Buu arc and was kept for anime going forward. Toriyama is completely somewhere else design-wise nowadays, and it is sometimes like punch in the eye when you see his design sheets next to the anime or Toyo's manga.
He is like Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru of the manga media.

But I would love to know how much really is Toriyama involved story-wise. My idea based on the info we have is something around, guys, we have Granolah, a guy with grudge because Saiyans invaded his planet, Vegeta learns some Beerus techniques and band of mercenaries linked to Freeza. Rest is up to you, bye :lol: And then he is just getting stuff back to comment on and approve.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jack Bz » Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:17 am

OLKv3 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:57 am Toyotaro revealed previously that he also designed Granolah right? Knowing all this, how much of this story did Toriyama actually write? Because it sounds just like the creation of the Moro arc, where it's mostly Toyo with some Tori ideas.
It is probably mostly a Toyotaro story, but Toriyama did change it drastically. For one, Toriyama came up with the Heeters (though Toyo designed them), and it's hard to imagine what would even be happening at this point in the story without them.

He also created and designed Monaito and the cerelians.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:20 am

Really glad to hear about Bardock. I just hope it doesn't take too long for him to appear again. Bardock being a Toyotaro's idea was obviously expected. Well, I expected. No way Toriyama would use him like this.

I like Toyotaro's explanation for this "Ultra Ego" and its relation to Ultra Instinct. Also, did he just confirm it to be purple? Since it's taking "Beerus' essence"?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mr Baggins » Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:10 pm

Not surprised to hear that Bardock's inclusion was Toyotaro's idea. I don't know if that makes me more intrigued or worried.

I've been saying for a while now that Goku's facial expressions in Ultra Instinct are deliberately stoic, and while I guess that's obvious at this point, I'm glad to hear Toyotaro comment on it. Definitely prefer it over the scowling version of UI as seen in the anime and games/merchandising for several reasons.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Luso Saiyan » Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:01 am

Grimlock wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:20 am Really glad to hear about Bardock. I just hope it doesn't take too long for him to appear again. Bardock being a Toyotaro's idea was obviously expected. Well, I expected. No way Toriyama would use him like this.
Unfortunately it's rather easy to guess that Toyotaro (and sometimes Toei when it comes to the anime) is the one who comes with most of these fan-oriented ideas (Bardock, Gogeta, SSG Vegeta, Ultra Ego, etc), which to me makes it hard to take any of it seriously. Even more so when Toriyama is relegated to virtually nothing but a filter to new content, instead of a hands-on creator.

One cay say that it's no different from Freeza's return in Resurrection 'F', or Future Trunks returning, or Broly being explored, but at least Toriyama genuinely liked those suggestions enough to create a story around it, making it his own.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:12 am

Mr Baggins wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:10 pm Not surprised to hear that Bardock's inclusion was Toyotaro's idea. I don't know if that makes me more intrigued or worried.

I've been saying for a while now that Goku's facial expressions in Ultra Instinct are deliberately stoic, and while I guess that's obvious at this point, I'm glad to hear Toyotaro comment on it. Definitely prefer it over the scowling version of UI as seen in the anime and games/merchandising for several reasons.
Also something deliberate, every time Goku's face changes from stoic in UI, he gets hit or loses accuracy.
He was shocked against Angel Moro for a second and got kicked
He was shocked and distressed against Planet Moro and kept getting sneak attacked
And of course, he was shocked against learning he was facing a Granolah clone and got ambushed with the one shot

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:42 pm

OLKv3 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:57 am Ultra Ego was Toyotaro's design and idea. Got the ok from Toriyama after he explained it to him. His design is based off Beerus like how Toyotaro assumes Goku's silver hair is based off of Angels.

Bardock's inclusion was also a Toyotaro idea. He asked Toriyama questions about his personality and ultimately got the ok to insert him. He's apparently an important part of this arc.

Toyotaro revealed previously that he also designed Granolah right? Knowing all this, how much of this story did Toriyama actually write? Because it sounds just like the creation of the Moro arc, where it's mostly Toyo with some Tori ideas.
The new Dragon Balls, Namekians being on other planets, Oatmeal, and the Heeters were all Toriyama’s idea. Although, Toyo did the Heeters’ designs. The basic outline was done by Toyo with Toriyama adding to it.

But not surprised by UE or Bardock. UE never looked like a Toriyama’s design (compared it to Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, and UI) and the idea of making a God of Destruction counterpart to UI runs counter to what Whis said in Resurrection ‘F’. Especially trying to make UI an ‘angel’ thing when until this arc, UI was called a god form that the others gods try to master. Like Beerus using a form of UI in the manga. And Bardock’s role in the story felt really force since literally any Saiyan could have filled Bardock’s role and it gives a EOB flavor.
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Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:46 pm

MCDaveG wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:15 am
OLKv3 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:57 am Ultra Ego was Toyotaro's design and idea. Got the ok from Toriyama after he explained it to him. His design is based off Beerus like how Toyotaro assumes Goku's silver hair is based off of Angels.

Bardock's inclusion was also a Toyotaro idea. He asked Toriyama questions about his personality and ultimately got the ok to insert him. He's apparently an important part of this arc.

Toyotaro revealed previously that he also designed Granolah right? Knowing all this, how much of this story did Toriyama actually write? Because it sounds just like the creation of the Moro arc, where it's mostly Toyo with some Tori ideas.
Yeah, even half of the Gods of Destruction and many ToP designs were done by Toyo.
As much as I miss Toriyama and I am a purist in some way, I think that Toyo is better at designs that fit the contemporary look of Dragon Ball that stems from Cell and Buu arc and was kept for anime going forward. Toriyama is completely somewhere else design-wise nowadays, and it is sometimes like punch in the eye when you see his design sheets next to the anime or Toyo's manga.
He is like Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru of the manga media.

But I would love to know how much really is Toriyama involved story-wise. My idea based on the info we have is something around, guys, we have Granolah, a guy with grudge because Saiyans invaded his planet, Vegeta learns some Beerus techniques and band of mercenaries linked to Freeza. Rest is up to you, bye :lol: And then he is just getting stuff back to comment on and approve.
Actually, most of the TOP designs were done by the anime staff, not Toyo. He did do half half the gods.

We know the most of the story was done by Toyo. What Toriyama has confirmed to have added was Oatmeal, the Heeters, and the new Dragon Balls and Namekian lore.

That and the anime staff as of late is trying to be closer to modern Toriyama.
Mr Baggins wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:10 pm Not surprised to hear that Bardock's inclusion was Toyotaro's idea. I don't know if that makes me more intrigued or worried.

I've been saying for a while now that Goku's facial expressions in Ultra Instinct are deliberately stoic, and while I guess that's obvious at this point, I'm glad to hear Toyotaro comment on it. Definitely prefer it over the scowling version of UI as seen in the anime and games/merchandising for several reasons.
This is an odd take since the anime was the original one that made UI stoic to the point Goku barely talked or yelled. He only became more emotional after he completed the form.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:04 pm

OLKv3 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:12 am
Mr Baggins wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:10 pm Not surprised to hear that Bardock's inclusion was Toyotaro's idea. I don't know if that makes me more intrigued or worried.

I've been saying for a while now that Goku's facial expressions in Ultra Instinct are deliberately stoic, and while I guess that's obvious at this point, I'm glad to hear Toyotaro comment on it. Definitely prefer it over the scowling version of UI as seen in the anime and games/merchandising for several reasons.
Also something deliberate, every time Goku's face changes from stoic in UI, he gets hit or loses accuracy.
He was shocked against Angel Moro for a second and got kicked
He was shocked and distressed against Planet Moro and kept getting sneak attacked
And of course, he was shocked against learning he was facing a Granolah clone and got ambushed with the one shot
I noticed this, too. His mind wanders or is clouded and then the real Granny puts him out. He is confused when Geets mentions Granola was someplace else and then he was no longer there.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mr Baggins » Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:43 pm

It also happens with his Sign/Omen form during the battle with Moro. He loses the blank facial expression about halfway through (more resembling how it looks in the anime) and then Merus points out that he's using it incorrectly/inefficiently.

I've always appreciated how the manga contrasted its trigger with Super Saiyan's rage trigger, and it stands out more from an aesthetic standpoint too. Toriyama's design for the form had the same expression, so it fits.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by NoAKAsNeeded » Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:18 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:55 am Volume 17 back cover:
Image
This is literally the bullies from Proud Family

Image

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Yuji » Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:51 am

Apparently there are some leaked images floating around

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PurestEvil » Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:31 am

Yuji wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:51 am Apparently there are some leaked images floating around
I don't believe them
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:52 pm

Yuji wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:51 am Apparently there are some leaked images floating around
Gonna Need to see it to believe it. My Twitter is Kaiza, @UndeadOni.

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