"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MCDaveG » Fri May 20, 2022 12:28 pm

Yeah, not fan of the Heeters at all. But, for example I really liked a lot the designs of Hera race from Movie 9, they looked cool and unique, even tho they were just regular ruthless villains that wanted to destroy everything.

With Gas, I really do not like his buff form with those horns as I actually would prefer him to be sort of a Majin Buu as a kid and still be strong and that summoning weapons technique is kinda odd, also, if Elec had some interesting grand plan, that might have been different. This arc is just a dragging storyboard of action figure fights.

But on positive note, even if they are retconning the hell out of Bardock, so that his TV Special is not really relevant in the Super lore and he is completely different character like Broly, I actually kinda liked his fight with Gas and showing him in action, without the need to pull SSJ out of his ass again, but building it on the Saiyan lore - in high contrast to Goku and Vegeta getting more and more rudiculous forms.
With everything we have now, past SSJ3... SS4J, SSJ God, SSJ Blue, Ultra Instinct and Destruction form, it is a parody on Super Saiyan Bargain sale and I am missing those days in Cell and Buu arc, when they were pushing over existing forms instead of turning into some Digimon/Magic Girls tropes.

Even tho I fell out of One Piece past episodes 600, I really liked how the worked with Luffy utilizing his Gum Gum powers in interesting ways, even having a clear homage to Kaioken with his Gear Second and adding the Haki in the mix, was actually cool and pretty well done.
I would have prefered for Dragon Ball to stay more in the realm of grounded martial arts series with some over the top flavor, then going full on anime tropes, colored hair and lazy transformations in Super.
Like adding to the mix something like Haki (as I would expect the ultra instinct to be like that and not change the Saiyan visually, at least not that rudiculously much) or some different technique that is not a different variations on ki blasts or rudiculously colored Super Saiyans.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cipher » Sat May 21, 2022 3:58 am

MCDaveG wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 12:28 pm I would have prefered for Dragon Ball to stay more in the realm of grounded martial arts series with some over the top flavor, then going full on anime tropes, colored hair and lazy transformations in Super.
I think that's one thing I would kind of give Super, even over later parts of the original series, though? At least its manga version?

So much of it has tied its narratives to training-based martial-arts improvement, even if said improvement is directed to special powers and forms. The characters struggle with the mentality required to do so, the effort, etc. Among the antagonists too, we've seen more of a roster of users of unique abilities than just more raw strength (though that's there too)--Hit, Moro, Gas, etc. And even though Jiren is just "more raw strength," he's perhaps the series' best-yet execution on the Tenshinhan archetype. In particular, the Granolah arc has felt like a smaller-scale martial-arts drama--just with a cosmic scale in terms of the abilities of the characters themselves.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by kemuri07 » Sat May 21, 2022 11:24 am

Trouser wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 5:10 am
Hellspawn28 wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 11:03 pm Toriyama's writing keeps on getting worse IMO.
Toyotarou is the writer. Toriyama gives his ideas and accepts changes without thinking about them, he sometimes corrects the drawings. But yeah, it's worse and worse each month.
I've said this before, but Toriyama has nothing left to prove. Even with the stink of Super, he's still the man who wrote Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. But yeaaaaah....I don't think he should get to walk away unscathed. There's a real hesitancy from all parties involved to go too far away from the status quo, and because of this, it often feels stale. Part of this is probably because, despite everything, Super is still set between the end of the Buu saga and EoZ, so I imagine there's a real resistance to stray too far from what we see of the end of Z in terms of character arcs and what not.

But Super's problems are inevitable because this is a 40 year old franchise that hasn't really changed. I mean, you look at DB and that story was unpredictable, flexible enough to be a gag manga, then a martial arts drama, then an adventure, and then DBZ completely shakes up its own status quo within the first ep. Super, despite including in Angels and Gods of Destruction and the multiverse, feels like less of a complete change in direction, and more of a merely an extension of what we've already seen with the Kais.

Where as Toriyama was willing to shake things up whenever he got too bored of something, Toriyama now seems unwilling to change the formula. And maybe I'm assuming too much, but creatively, I don't think his heart is in Dragon Ball anymore.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MCDaveG » Sat May 21, 2022 12:00 pm

I wouldn"t blame everything on Toriyama. As last time, TOEI was bold with GT, they recycled plot from DBZ Gaiden and the whole Baby agenda, minions was full of not even plotholes, but nonsensical twists, like Cardinal is not the main boss, but me his whip is! WTF, with the whole Dolltaki being the boss and Rildo being the boss, Myu being the boss of Rildo and who created the Baby... but, actually Baby created Dr. Myu.
Crazy stuff. With weird Android 17 intermission that totally killed 17s redemption and made him a villain again and cold-heartedly killed by Goku. The Dragons were interesting, but boring.

I must say, that the designs and core ideas in GT were bold, but executed really poorly and in that regard, Super is awesome... except for crap production quality, so the show looks awfull, but storywise, I like it.

What I really don't like about Super is them filling the gap at the end of Z with stuff, that for sure can't be thrilling, as we know the outcome and at the same time, they are trying to erase the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai from the focus, as Super and everything around is based on the time where everyone is at their " Z prime", including games like Kakarot, that ended with Buu arc and completely ommited the Z Epilogue, like it didn't happen, same as Dragon Ball games disregarding Piccolo Jr. arc.

It's crazy, as the Z Epilogue was regarded before as the staple, with Goku in blue gi being prominent in games, Z games ending at that moment...

But still, Toriyama gave us lot of cool stuff in comparison what came from TOEI before and at times.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Sat May 21, 2022 1:36 pm

Touching up on the martial arts aspects in the comic has been a nice highlight. I also love the added dimension to the transformations that modern Dragon Ball has played with across the multiple mediums and branches of the franchise. I hope Tomioka Atsuhiro gets to explore both in further Dragon Ball animated projects.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Sat Jun 04, 2022 6:01 pm

I found the total sales for DBS in 2021:
2020 for comparison:
Image

DBS was ranked #38 in 2020 then #46 in 2021 with about 1 million sales both years. Not too bad. Boruto dropped off the list in 2021.
Edit: posted the wrong number the first time!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Shorty GZ2 » Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:27 pm

Sales overall improved/stayed consistently at the same level despite the lower ranking number, neat.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:21 pm

That's pretty good for Dragon Ball actually. Don't they get four volumes a year so around 250,000 per volume? That's sort of on par with what they used to sell from the get go.

Not good for Boruto though is it? That has a weekly anime and everything and it began right after Naruto ended and it's not even in the Top 50?

And One Piece is really dropping off. It dropped another 10% which may not seem much but it had 3 volumes in 2021 where 2020 only had 2.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cipher » Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:55 pm

It's pretty impressive for a V-Jump series to remain in the Top 50 like that, seven years in, especially with relatively consistent sales year to year, and with no anime or movie projects to back it (for years; the last big piece of DBS animation was in 2018).

That might even be without precedent.

Not like it's lighting the world on fire, but it's certainly the most successful thing under its magazine/imprint ... ever?

Also, shout outs to SLAM DUNK having another moment.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Shorty GZ2 » Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:12 am

It's certainly (been) a steady success/side hustle for DBS

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:12 am

Cipher wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:55 pm It's pretty impressive for a V-Jump series to remain in the Top 50 like that, seven years in, especially with relatively consistent sales year to year, and with no anime or movie projects to back it (for years; the last big piece of DBS animation was in 2018).
It's why I don't get the argument that the manga doesn't sell enough to have no anime adaptation. We don't know if it will or not but that isn't enough of a reason on its own. I think it would make the DBS manga more of an outlier since it would be one of the few titles always making it to the top 50 but still too low to get an anime.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SquadronGOD » Sun Jun 12, 2022 5:47 pm

Here's to hoping the manga goes in a completely different direction than the new movie.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MCDaveG » Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:32 pm

The movie is actually tons more fun than the last arc of Super Manga is. I hope for some form of sequel, at least one more Final movie to kiss the DB anime a goodbye as I don't believe that we might get anything from Toriyama past the End of Z part.

I would love the proper manga ending of the story continues with Dragon Balls... Maybe, do some fun game like Dragon Ball Online to have stories set in the future DB world with new characters.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:08 pm

I see the anime coming back there was rumors of it returning in 2019 or 2020, I expect it’s production was put on hold due to COVID and to funnel resources to the OP anime for Wano. As Toei most likely wanted to avoid another production fiasco with Super which is why I think the “Super Hero” movie is 3D, if it was using traditional animation that would take resources away from OP along with any series in a 2D format as well as put a strain on any upcoming series/projects.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Super Murjin » Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:33 pm

How long after Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection of F was the Dragon Ball Super anime announced?

Be nice if the return of the anime could be announced in the same manner after Super Hero.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:44 pm

Super Murjin wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:33 pm How long after Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection of F was the Dragon Ball Super anime announced?

Be nice if the return of the anime could be announced in the same manner after Super Hero.
RoF was released in April and DBS anime began in July 2015. That same could happen now but it depends when Digimon Ghost Game ends since it's currently in that timeslot. The earliest is October since Digimon series usually last at least a year.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:31 am

Super Murjin wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:33 pm How long after Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection of F was the Dragon Ball Super anime announced?

Be nice if the return of the anime could be announced in the same manner after Super Hero.
The anime was announced 10 days after RoF's premiere

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:54 am

mute_proxy wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:31 am
Super Murjin wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:33 pm How long after Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection of F was the Dragon Ball Super anime announced?

Be nice if the return of the anime could be announced in the same manner after Super Hero.
The anime was announced 10 days after RoF's premiere
It was also infamously rush.
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Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by kemuri07 » Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:32 pm

HeroR wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:54 am
mute_proxy wrote: Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:31 am
Super Murjin wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:33 pm How long after Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection of F was the Dragon Ball Super anime announced?

Be nice if the return of the anime could be announced in the same manner after Super Hero.
The anime was announced 10 days after RoF's premiere
It was also infamously rush.
I actually did not realize that until I watched one of the Totally Not Mark youtube eps where they go into Super's production. That the Super anime only went into production following the massive success of RoF. I always assumed that these movies were always leading up with a series. And while I'm sure that Toei was testing the water to see if a series was still viable, it sounds like there were no real plans until after RoF's premiere.

My god knowing that put so much of Super's problems into context.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Pafupafu » Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:35 am

I think Toei is slow-playing adapting the Manga into a series. I imagine if Super Hero does well across the world, a full Super anime series resumption is imminent. They are letting the manga get way ahead in the meantime. I still think they may go CG with the series if they can and maybe that just needs a bit more time before it becomes efficient financially and from a production standpoint.

It will be curious to see if the Manga and Anime have a much closer aligned storytelling as the Manga is already so far ahead this time around.

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