"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Mr Baggins
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mr Baggins » Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:18 am

Pafupafu wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:35 am It will be curious to see if the Manga and Anime have a much closer aligned storytelling as the Manga is already so far ahead this time around.
If the adapted material is 1:1 barring some additions, some things would definitely be different than the initial 2015 TV broadcast. Vegeta's Blue Evolved design is just one example, but there are others.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:17 pm

Pafupafu wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:35 am I think Toei is slow-playing adapting the Manga into a series. I imagine if Super Hero does well across the world, a full Super anime series resumption is imminent. They are letting the manga get way ahead in the meantime. I still think they may go CG with the series if they can and maybe that just needs a bit more time before it becomes efficient financially and from a production standpoint.

It will be curious to see if the Manga and Anime have a much closer aligned storytelling as the Manga is already so far ahead this time around.
I don't think so, Toei is playing smart. We probably will keep getting movies once in a while, but if they ever choose to have a new weekly series it will probably go on an different path after adapting Broly and Super Hero. We may expect new stories.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:37 am

Noah wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:17 pmI don't think so, Toei is playing smart. We probably will keep getting movies once in a while, but if they ever choose to have a new weekly series it will probably go on an different path after adapting Broly and Super Hero. We may expect new stories.
I don't think the decision is up to Toei since they've said it all depends on Toriyama. I'm pretty sure even adapting the Heroes manga wasn't something Toei decided to do on their own. It's been said on here that anything they animate has to be approved by Shuiesha first.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:42 am

At this point I'm not seeing Granolah arc ending before November. It will probably be like Moro arc. Toyotaro will drag it for more months and then the new arc will start around Jump Festa.

If the pattern is the same, then there's no reason to believe it's just a coincidence. Whenever the anime comes back the pacing will speed up again.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MCDaveG » Wed Jun 29, 2022 6:12 am

Except for the movie, that was actually unexpected fun, I see Dragon Ball tired kind of.
The manga itself feels like those fan fics that we've read over the years (Multiverse, AF...), just official.
The novelty of Moro wore off quickly the longer it ran and this arc is a boring slugfest, not bringing anything actually interesting.
Anime is nowhere to be seen or announced and it is already years after Super ended.
I'd say, let it die as now we have a manga instead of a GT this time around.

Super as a series was fine with some trouble and bad quality, if we have got a movie alone from time to time - Broly and Super Hero - that would be cool.

I can't stand reading about Gas getting old for another more chapters. We already kinda know Elec's plan to defeat Freeza and run the business by himself and on bigger scale - as him defeating Freeza would make him the go to A-hole in the universe to do business with.
It's the same BS like reading countless chapters about revenge plot that we knew is pointless from the start, just to get to see Bardock and Saiyan pride - which we haven't seen before at all with one particular second main character babbling about it for years.

I am sorry for the fans, that try to find deeper meanings in these works, as I am more of a person that goes to a Marvel movie, crunches on popcorn and just has fun with what it is. But that's my opinion.

I can see Toriyama do a tons more fun with a property for kids, than what we are getting here and the latest movie to me was a testament of that. I was sceptical after the Cell rumours for example, but damn, even mindless knock-off Cell was more entertaining to me, than having action figures clashing on paper, rehashing the same basic plot points we already had in the show over the years.
Merus and Buu's time to shine in Moro arc, that was fun! Man I even loved fun stuff, like Buu training before tournament of power and kinda getting to look as a nice version of Super Buu (before falling asleep, which wasn't really funny as it happened already before) in the anime.

And yeah, I know it's a fighting manga, but just fighting with obscure techniques and cool designs, that's video game stuff, needs a bit of stronger story seasoning and go bold. It's like god damn Saint Seiya rehashing the plot of 12 Golden Knights every time... I don't even know anymore, how many times they did it (I think 4 times - Original, Hades, Omega, Lost Canvas... not counting the basic trope with different enemies that are basically the "Pokemon Gym trainers getting to the Gym Leader".)
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:34 am

The manga is in a state for me I don’t even care about anymore. I had hopes this arc would present some plot development or answer questions that were brought up by the Heeters to Zuno, but its pace is so damn slow that is completely ruining my enjoyment. It has been basically Gas surpass the heroes, heroes catch up, Elec stimulates Gas. The cycle repeats. Boring.

Meanwhile, I got caught up in One Punch Man manga, and good god that manga delivers so much that I’m starting to become too demanding on other works.

It’s a shame because I’ve been a Dragon Ball fan for over 20 years, but perhaps I should take a break until the movie or a animated project air.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Shorty GZ2 » Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:34 pm

Funny how things work in that we seem to have reverse-opinions lmao; I don't really mind the DBS manga and still enjoy it month-by-month even though I'll be the 1st to note the arc's issues, while in contrast, I think the OPM manga has been bottoming to its most disappointing nadir in terms of characterisation and plot which no super Murata art can mitigate (not even accounting its adaptation decay/liberties). Guess thems the breaks.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:40 pm

I've been binge reading the whole manga and the Moro arc was legit pretty good, not Dragon Ball Z good but up there.

The Granolah arc though....it's kinda dull. It's inferior in many ways.

If the manga continues they desperately need to do something fresh. Maybe let Goku and Vegeta take a back seat for a while. Let's spend some time with the secondary characters. Let's see some new places. Let's learn about things we hardly know about, ain't it time we see Frieza's homeworld and learn what race he is?

Just something. At least give it a few months to settle down, take a breather and build up to something new before the back to back fighting starts up. We need some Great Saiyan slice of life breather for a change.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:34 am

Its okay but it's definitely the best arc in Super, if it gets an adaptation I would like to see some things changed, expanded on, and added. Like a backstory that says Moro is from a demonic realm, but his goal isn't just to wreak havoc in the universe for fun, there is an objective at play. As well as expansion on UI and backstory for Merus including the reason why trainee angels are sent to mortal realms.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:41 am

SaiyanGod117 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:34 am and backstory for Merus including the reason why trainee angels are sent to mortal realms.
Pretty much it's to test whether the Angel trainee is ready to be truly neutral. If they go too hard into one direction they get erased, but if they act fine they graduate.

Still, there remains the question why Merus was training to be one if all 12 Universes already have their spots taken. Can Angels go on retirement like GoDs do?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by nineko » Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:58 am

Well, I guess it's always possible that an existing "full" angel gets erased for breaking the rules, so it's always good to have some spare ones on the bench.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:58 pm

Yeah, having subs might be the reason, or maybe there's more to angels than just training and assisting Hakaishin. It could be that after the ToP, instead of erasing existing universes, they might be trying to add new ones, so they'd need more angels in the future.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Hellspawn28 » Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:56 pm

They willl probably won't kill off Freeza knowing that they will give him a new form soon.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Trouser » Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:10 am

Hellspawn28 wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:56 pm They willl probably won't kill off Freeza knowing that they will give him a new form soon.
He's going to steal colors from Goku once again, this time as... Platinum Frieza!
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Goku9001 » Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:23 am

For Frieza to pose a threat to Goku and Vegeta, he would either need to recruit an unknown powerful warrior, use the Dragonballs (please don't), or awaken a new transformation because there's no way he's matching up to Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego with just his Golden form. Golden Frieza did outstrip the Blue Saiyans in Broly but both Goku and Vegeta made tremendous gains in all of their forms through the Moro and Granola arcs. Frieza would need something more impactful to warrant him posing a threat to both Goku and Vegeta.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:33 pm

Also, Freeza is like a slasher horror movie villain at this rate. You kill him, they will find ways to drag him back to the main story.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:58 pm

Goku9001 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:23 am For Frieza to pose a threat to Goku and Vegeta, he would either need to recruit an unknown powerful warrior, use the Dragonballs (please don't), or awaken a new transformation because there's no way he's matching up to Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego with just his Golden form. Golden Frieza did outstrip the Blue Saiyans in Broly but both Goku and Vegeta made tremendous gains in all of their forms through the Moro and Granola arcs. Frieza would need something more impactful to warrant him posing a threat to both Goku and Vegeta.
Simple in Dragonball terms. Freeza is a prodigy, just another few months of training and he is at the top again.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Sat Jul 09, 2022 5:15 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:33 pm Also, Freeza is like a slasher horror movie villain at this rate. You kill him, they will find ways to drag him back to the main story.
Honestly he only came back twice in canon, and the second time took a lot of effort from his side (being a surprisingly good guy for the entire ToP). If they ever bring him back for the third time then yeah, but for now I'm giving him the benefit of doubt still.

Still hoping for a grand surpassing the GoDs ploy from Frieza that was hinted in Super, maybe one day.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Goku9001 » Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:57 am

Miracles wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:58 pm
Goku9001 wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 3:23 am For Frieza to pose a threat to Goku and Vegeta, he would either need to recruit an unknown powerful warrior, use the Dragonballs (please don't), or awaken a new transformation because there's no way he's matching up to Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego with just his Golden form. Golden Frieza did outstrip the Blue Saiyans in Broly but both Goku and Vegeta made tremendous gains in all of their forms through the Moro and Granola arcs. Frieza would need something more impactful to warrant him posing a threat to both Goku and Vegeta.
Simple in Dragonball terms. Freeza is a prodigy, just another few months of training and he is at the top again.
This is purely subjective on my part, but that's not good enough for me. He still trained rigorously and still was only on par with Blue Goku after both mastered their respective forms. Granted, he did drastically pull ahead of Perfected Blue Goku and Vegeta during Broly but Goku and Vegeta hardly made any gains during that time. Afterwards, they made tremendous strides during the Moro and Granolah arcs. The latter explicitly sets up Goku and Vegeta as the strongest in the universe including both Broly and Frieza excluding Granola and that was prior to Goku and Vegeta honing their own divine abilities.

In fact, Goku and Vegeta pulling ahead of Broly drastically would be enough evidence. At the end of Broly , Broly is presented as a much more powerful, gifted fighter than Frieza is given that Frieza establishes that he will defeat Goku and Vegeta by seizing Broly once his mind was stable and intact.

For Frieza to keep up with Goku and Vegeta, he would have had to have made gargantuan gains to match up to the newly evolved powers in just their Blue form, then power up more to match up against Blue Evolved and Perfected Blue w/ Ultra Instinct, then power up more to match up against Perfected Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego, and then power up significantly more to match up against those same abilities that are now drastically strengthened by their Saiyan pride which allowed both to pass up Granolah and Gas at their peaks.

It's simply unrealistic for Goku and Vegeta to have evidently pulled way beyond Golden Frieza with new abilities boot and have battled opponents much stronger than Broly and yet Frieza still somehow pulls ahead doing the same stuff during the next few months. Toriyama clearly draws the line at some point. Android 17 is a prodigy who was close to Perfected Blue Goku initially was outstripped by Perfected Blue Goku during the Moro Arc. Piccolo required the same power up that Granolah made to be relevant and then a new transformation to surpass both Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta. There's clearly limitations as to what Toriyama is willing to accept. Toriyama could do what you are suggesting but it seems unlikely and heavily goes against the story.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by nineko » Sun Jul 10, 2022 3:22 am

Right, your post made me realise there's something that doesn't add up.

By the Broly movie we have:
Broly > Goku
Broly > Vegeta
Broly ≈ Blue Gogeta

By the Granolah arc, which acknowledged that Broly existed because there was a panel about that, we have:
Granolah > Broly (because wish, and confirmed by Toyotarou in an interview)
Gas > Granolah (because wish)

By the middle of Chapter 85, we've had Vegeta being able to make Gas fear a punch, though that never delivered because Vegeta passed out, but even then, we've had Goku being able to temporarily put Gas down, until the latter's subsequent power boost in the chapter's cliffhanger.

Anyway, my point is, by the middle of Chapter 85, if we take all those ">" signs literally, we have that both Goku and Vegeta individually are stronger than Blue Gogeta, and who knows what else is coming.

After that, who knows what happened in the three following years, Goku and Vegeta probably survived the fight against Gas & friends because Super Hero (unless they died and someone used the dragon balls to revive them), but then, we have them on Beerus's planet, and it's implied that Goku still fears Broly when the latter was powering up, maybe even Beerus fears him by judging by Beerus's reaction (which looked more than just an annoyance towards an uninvited guest).

I'm not sure what to think. Sure is convenient to use a little bit of "saiyan pride" to become basically twice as strong. But I guess they had to escalate things quickly if their endgame is to put Goku and Vegeta on par with the angels, a hypothetical Gogeta in Chapter 85 would probably already be, in my opinion.

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