"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by dbgtFO » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:17 am

That super scoop 5 makes me think we won't get any Beerus and Whis action in the first episode and the manga chapters somehow will just give a glimpse of what will happen in the next 3 episodes or something like that.
Rukura wrote:
FortuneSSJ wrote:Other thing that surprised me was the chapter lenght. It was expecting 30+ pages just like ROF manga adaptation and any other monthly manga...
Maybe I didn't found the complete chapter?!
That's because we were never told the full story, which is obvious after this first chapter.

This isn't a complete manga adaptation of Super. This is a tease, like the 'F' chapters. From what I'm looking at, every month, we'll have a short chapter teasing whatever episode is about to air next at that time. Because, don't forget, Super is a weekly series.
I think this is probably right.

Here's that Super Scoop #5:
Super SCOOP!! #5
The first episode’s synopsis is available! Goku gets a job…?!

Following Majin Buu’s defeat, peaceful days have come. When Chi-Chi orders Goku to go earn some money, Goku gets the itch to train while he works. Meanwhile, Goten heads out on an adventure with Trunks to find a gift for his soon-to-be sister-in-law Videl!?
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/06/17/ea ... 15-v-jump/

The way I see it the Goku and Goten and Goten and Trunks parts take place way before BoG(maybe even before Jsat?), whereas the Beerus part takes place within BoG.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Doctor. » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:29 am

UpFromTheSkies wrote:I didn't switch anything around.
Yes you did. The manga chapter gives the impression that the Goku and Beerus plots happen simultaneously, since it keeps jumping back and forth. Goku is on Kaio's planet before Beerus wakes up, watch the start of BoG again.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by freak27 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:35 am

Yes, I also have the sense that Super is kind of retelling things

If you think about it, how are we going to ''see'' the SSGSS transformation in the anime?? Via flaschback? No way, that would be just lame!

I think a retelling will build things right

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:48 am

Doctor. wrote:
UpFromTheSkies wrote:I didn't switch anything around.
Yes you did. The manga chapter gives the impression that the Goku and Beerus plots happen simultaneously, since it keeps jumping back and forth.
I see, then it happened this way:

-Beerus wakes up and talks to Whis about his SSG dream
-The Kaioshins discuss Beerus waking up
-Goku gets a job farming and gets money from Mr Satan
-Beerus visits a planet scheduled for destruction, is reminded of SSG
-Goku goes to Kaio's planet to train
-Bulma's party begins
-Beerus returns home and talks to the Oracle Fish
-Beerus and Whis travel to Kaio's planet and talk to Goku
Goku is on Kaio's planet before Beerus wakes up, watch the start of BoG again.
The scene with Beerus waking up is a flashback, notice it happens after the Kaioshins have already discussed him waking up.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Doctor. » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:56 am

I think the time-frame is too small for that to work, but I guess we'll see in time.

I think that's too convoluted of an option for Toriyama and Toei to work. The most logical assumption is that they're retconning things.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by GoldLiger » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:08 am

Doctor. wrote:I think the time-frame is too small for that to work, but I guess we'll see in time.

I think that's too convoluted of an option for Toriyama and Toei to work. The most logical assumption is that they're retconning things.
Which is exactly what happening. Remember guys that the only thing that Toriyama did with Battle of Gods was Beerus' design and the Super Saiyan God form. Everything else was all Toei Animation. So he is basically retconning the movie while at the same time keeping some of the elements that he deem as part of his continuity.
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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by dbgtFO » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:14 am

GoldLiger wrote:
Doctor. wrote:I think the time-frame is too small for that to work, but I guess we'll see in time.

I think that's too convoluted of an option for Toriyama and Toei to work. The most logical assumption is that they're retconning things.
Which is exactly what happening. Remember guys that the only thing that Toriyama did with Battle of Gods was Beerus' design and the Super Saiyan God form. Everything else was all Toei Animation. So he is basically retconning the movie while at the same time keeping some of the elements that he deem as part of his continuity.
Toriyama didn't just redesign SSG and Beerus, he also rewrote the entire script.
He only kept the basic outline, which was: "God of Destruction Beerus comes to Earth, during one of Z-gang's parties, but Goku achieves Super Saiyan God, before preventing Beerus from destroying the planet."

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Neon Z » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:20 am

freak27 wrote:Yes, I also have the sense that Super is kind of retelling things

If you think about it, how are we going to ''see'' the SSGSS transformation in the anime?? Via flaschback? No way, that would be just lame!

I think a retelling will build things right
SSGSS wasn't a new transformation at the time of RoF though. We never saw the first time Goku used it. This show will have plenty of space to introduce it in some dramatic moment without retconning the movies.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by freak27 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:25 am

Neon Z wrote:
freak27 wrote:Yes, I also have the sense that Super is kind of retelling things

If you think about it, how are we going to ''see'' the SSGSS transformation in the anime?? Via flaschback? No way, that would be just lame!

I think a retelling will build things right
SSGSS wasn't a new transformation at the time of RoF though. We never saw the first time Goku used it. This show will have plenty of space to introduce it in some dramatic moment without retconning the movies.
Then for me it will be extremely underwhelming to go past Beerus and Frieza in a ''flashback'' way. If this happens I imagine that in the first 20-30 episodes we will have nothing ecxiting to watch, no new battles, no new enemies, just filling up scenes that we didnt see in the movies. Who cares about something that knows already??

Not interesting. I wish the movies go fillers.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by GoldLiger » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:27 am

dbgtFO wrote:
GoldLiger wrote:
Doctor. wrote:I think the time-frame is too small for that to work, but I guess we'll see in time.

I think that's too convoluted of an option for Toriyama and Toei to work. The most logical assumption is that they're retconning things.
Which is exactly what happening. Remember guys that the only thing that Toriyama did with Battle of Gods was Beerus' design and the Super Saiyan God form. Everything else was all Toei Animation. So he is basically retconning the movie while at the same time keeping some of the elements that he deem as part of his continuity.
Toriyama didn't just redesign SSG and Beerus, he also rewrote the entire script.
He only kept the basic outline, which was: "God of Destruction Beerus comes to Earth, during one of Z-gang's parties, but Goku achieves Super Saiyan God, before preventing Beerus from destroying the planet."
Not true. It was stated that the script was already done. If he changed it was to reflect the current form of Beerus and SSG Goku. Nothing else. Just look at how "detail" he was when it came to the "Z fighters vs 1000 Frieza's men". That is the level of script writing Toriyama had.
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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Low Tone G » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:33 am

UpFromTheSkies wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
UpFromTheSkies wrote:I didn't switch anything around.
Yes you did. The manga chapter gives the impression that the Goku and Beerus plots happen simultaneously, since it keeps jumping back and forth.
I see, then it happened this way:

-Beerus wakes up and talks to Whis about his SSG dream
-The Kaioshins discuss Beerus waking up
-Goku gets a job farming and gets money from Mr Satan
-Beerus visits a planet scheduled for destruction, is reminded of SSG
-Goku goes to Kaio's planet to train
-Bulma's party begins
-Beerus returns home and talks to the Oracle Fish
-Beerus and Whis travel to Kaio's planet and talk to Goku
Goku is on Kaio's planet before Beerus wakes up, watch the start of BoG again.
The scene with Beerus waking up is a flashback, notice it happens after the Kaioshins have already discussed him waking up.
It can not really work like that:

The manga starts with a flashback as Goku finishes Kid Buu off. Then a panel mentions: shortly after. So it can not happen right before the BOG time, because that will be at least 3-4 years after. I don't really think a term of shortly after would mean more than one year. And the BOG can't occur right after the Majin Buu saga as Pan was already conceived and in EOZ she is only 4-5 years old. So it should mean the Toriyama shortened Beerus' sleeping period wit 3-4 years, so he sould have slept only 35 years. Or he will go back to sleep once again for 3-4 years and wake up once more in BOG time.
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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Neon Z » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:41 am

GoldLiger wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Toriyama didn't just redesign SSG and Beerus, he also rewrote the entire script.
He only kept the basic outline, which was: "God of Destruction Beerus comes to Earth, during one of Z-gang's parties, but Goku achieves Super Saiyan God, before preventing Beerus from destroying the planet."
Not true. It was stated that the script was already done. If he changed it was to reflect the current form of Beerus and SSG Goku. Nothing else. Just look at how "detail" he was when it came to the "Z fighters vs 1000 Freeza's men". That is the level of script writing Toriyama had.
Huh... the original non-Toriyama plot of BoGs involved Beerus beng the one who made the Saiyans become evil, then appearing during Kuririn's and #18's marriage and turning everyone evil, with Goku needing to face them when he appears there. Aside from some vague ideas (God of destruction, everyone reunited in a party), it's completely different from the movie we got.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Araki » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:09 am

dbgtFO wrote:The way I see it the Goku and Goten and Goten and Trunks parts take place way before BoG(maybe even before Jsat?), whereas the Beerus part takes place within BoG.
If Goku uses Satan's prize to convince Chi-chi and stop working, maybe this story starts after the OVA, where he was still a farmer.

We shouldn't take the episode summary at heart. They usually touch just one small aspect of the episode, the premiere will have a lot more content that wasn't mentioned there.
GoldLiger wrote:Not true. It was stated that the script was already done. If he changed it was to reflect the current form of Beerus and SSG Goku. Nothing else. Just look at how "detail" he was when it came to the "Z fighters vs 1000 Freeza's men". That is the level of script writing Toriyama had.
Although you're right that he didn't rewrite it entirely, Toriyama told in interviews that he had to change a lot of things in the script that he couldn't agree with, including aspects of the story and Goku's behavior, so you're wrong about the "nothing else".
Still, it wasn't enough to take the credit away from the screenwriter, unlike RoF where he's credited by himself.

And the Freeza's grunts fight doesn't say anything about his script writing, he just didn't want to write that battle. He wanted the animators to go amok (that is actually not unusual in this field).

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Dayspring » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:57 am

Read the manga. It's definitely a retcon/reboot/retelling of Battle of Gods and not taking part between two scenes of the film. It's retelling the story and setting it shortly after the Buu saga (as in, likely a few weeks later or less). It's still possible that the OVA and/or RoF take place later, though.
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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by soulnova » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:02 am

Didnt someone mentioned in the jsat special that Satan had given them some money that had ran out already?
Check out Journey's End, a short story of Goku and Vegeta's final days. "Time is running out for the last two Saiyans"

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Hitiro » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:06 am

It seems from the first chapter that the events take place before BoG and FnF? In the end Beerus talks about the SSJGod that he had a premonition of. So is Super going to cover the events up till BoG and FnF then continue past them?

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Cold Skin » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:18 am

Hitiro wrote:So is Super going to cover the events up till BoG and FnF then continue past them?
Precisely, that's what was announced in the V-Jump.

Taken straight from Kanzenshuu's main page translation:
"This series is a super tale that depicts what happens “afterwards” to Goku and the gang following the titanic battle with Majin Buu, and links up with the movies Battle of Gods and Revival of “F”!!"

It starts before Battle of Gods all the way to after Resurrection 'F'. Apparently.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Dayspring » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:33 am

Cold Skin wrote:
Hitiro wrote:So is Super going to cover the events up till BoG and FnF then continue past them?
Precisely, that's what was announced in the V-Jump.

Taken straight from Kanzenshuu's main page translation:
"This series is a super tale that depicts what happens “afterwards” to Goku and the gang following the titanic battle with Majin Buu, and links up with the movies Battle of Gods and Revival of “F”!!"

It starts before Battle of Gods all the way to after Resurrection 'F'. Apparently.
So it's essentially retconning the OVA and films, replacing them with retellings of BoG and RoF set closer to the Buu saga. Meh. Hope there's enough time to show more than just that.
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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Hitiro » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:39 am

Dayspring wrote:So it's essentially retconning the OVA and films, replacing them with retellings of BoG and RoF set closer to the Buu saga. Meh. Hope there's enough time to show more than just that.
It may not be retconning the OVA and films. It may just be the case of having the first series tell us what happens before the OVA and films then the narrator will say something like "And this is what happened to Earth's heroes before they met Beerus." Then they may follow up with a season two starting out like this manga chapter, showing a quick flash back of Goku beating Boo but with Beerus and Golden Freeza instead, and continue on from there.
Last edited by Hitiro on Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Cold Skin » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:43 am

Exactly, we can't jump to conclusion as far as retconning anything goes.

The series could simply aim at filling the gaps with new events, and - regarding the movies - showing additionnal information that was unseen until now.
For example explaining why the Kaio Shins know that Beerus is awake before his actual awakening is shown in the movie.

All that they say is that it starts after Majin Boo and move forwards, making the link with the two movies on the way. They don't imply any retconning for now, and we haven't seen enough to have anything proven by now.

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