"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Jack Bz]

Granolah will become Oracle Fish confirmed

[Xeogran]

Granolah will become Oracle Fish confirmed

And more people will now think the Fish was talking about Granolah in her prophecy, when it 99% wasn't about him at all

[jd55513]

Granolah will become Oracle Fish confirmed

And more people will now think the Fish was talking about Granolah in her prophecy, when it 99% wasn't about him at all

It absolutely was about Granolah rise to power. Even the official shonen jump summary confirms this thread of symbolic foreshadowing.

"Granolah power up to become the strongest warrior in the universe at long last! The time has come for his fateful clash against Goku and Vegeta!!" (Source: DB App)

All of the wish obtained techniques that Granolah has shown and the current feats he has done, should have made it obvious imo.

So unless we get a transition back to the Oracle fish. I don't foresee it changing yet.

[VegettoEX]

(Source: DB App)

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is "DB App"...?

[Xeogran]

It absolutely was about Granolah rise to power. Even the official shonen jump summary confirms this thread of symbolic foreshadowing.

Too obvious, so for me it's a red herring. Granolah is already starting feeling damage from fighting Blue Vegeta alone. If Goku and Vegeta teamed up at him from the start, they would most likely defeat him without putting in so much effort. The Oracle Fish surely meant something scarier that will happen later in the arc.

[jd55513]

(Source: DB App)

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is "DB App"...?

It's the official Dragon Ball App/website

[jd55513]

It absolutely was about Granolah rise to power. Even the official shonen jump summary confirms this thread of symbolic foreshadowing.

Too obvious, so for me it's a red herring. Granolah is already starting feeling damage from fighting Blue Vegeta alone. If Goku and Vegeta teamed up at him from the start, they would most likely defeat him without putting in so much effort. The Oracle Fish surely meant something scarier that will happen later in the arc.

While Granolah will eventually be surpassed by whatever the Heeters do. As of right now, Granolah is the strongest. He only took damage when he was a clone. The elbow jab he got from Vegeta did nothing to him. Also keep in mind Granolah is still in base and probably surpressed since he wants to fight Frieza.
As you saw in 70, 72, and 74. Granolah has done what appears to be the Hakai, in the same manner as Beerus explained (releasing heaps of energy)

It's quite likely that Granolah has Ultra Instinct in his back pocket and I have argued and made videos detailing how he might be using it in base to avoid attacks(the teleportation from 72, and the evasion he did in 74).

Once Granolah takes a beating from Vegeta or suffers a near death experience, or maybe just calms down. He will unlock Ultra Instinct and probably demolish Vegeta and either round 2 with Goku will occur, or the Heeters stuff happens.
Point is, Granolah obtained technique from all the greatest warriors(alive and death it seems) and that includes the god techniques.

[Skar]

Toriyama designed Monaito and the Sugarians: https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1422575078496079880

It's cool to learn Toriyama designed some of the characters in the Granolah arc. Since I don't remember drafts released, I assumed he wrote the story and left all the character designs to Toyotaro. I hope we learn more of Toriyama's involvement in those upcoming interviews.

[Miracles]

We'd just be going in circles if I answered batistabus or Undying, so I'll just... not do that. Instead, these:

1. So it would seem a lot depends on the characters personality/desire.

2. Besides, why should every character from here on out wish to be stronger, when the story already said even such a wish is no guarantee it would last? Since the universe will always bring someone better. We just had Vegeta tell us that very thing this chapter.

1. Everything depends on characters' personalities if you're a competent writer. Frieza is a bad, self-serving person whose character has changed quite a bit since the namek arc, so him not wishing to do something that makes his existence more boring makes sense. Other characters, such as the ones I've mentioned several times, aren't like Frieza.

2. That doesn't make any sense. Why worry about the power not "lasting" when the new bad guy will kill everyone anyway? Why worry about the power only lasting a year, or 6 months, or 10 minutes if it makes you so strong you can kill whatever new threat arrives instantly. Granolah could've ended this forever ago, but is toying around for whatever reason. This isn't a good defense of it.

Granolah isn't toying around. He stated that he is saving his power for Freeza. Also, as the strongest, it isn't even proven that Granolah can take out this new enemy in front of him [Vegeta] yet. This is the point of Vegeta saying the strongest is only a "moment" in time. The second you face an enemy it's still no guarantee the title holds up. You have to fight to find that out. So even the Dragon's wish of being the strongest is not certain.

Secondly, yes; such a wish depends on a characters personality. Which is my point. We know the fighting Z are prideful warriors. Who wouldn't want any handouts but to become strong on their own. They are also considered good nature'd. As if anyone of them would make a selfish wish to become the strongest. Especially after the wish, there is a time limit to reuse them again. What happens during that duration? They have accepted the fact they are not comparable anymore and they know Goku is the savior.

We may not know the conditions or limitations of such a wish with each Dragon. However, we do know that it would be out of character for any of the Z squad to make such a degrading wish.

[batistabus]

I've never played Dragon Quest, but I decided to purchase the "Akira Toriyama Dragon Quest Illustrations" art book. It just came in today. Here's a quote from his message at the beginning of the book:

In truth, I've never been that interested in the main characters and big, bad final-boss types; the minor characters and monsters are much more fun. Sadly, I don't get to draw as many as I'd like due to time constraints.

Well...thanks to Toyotaro, it looks like he got what he wanted!

[TheSaiyanGod]

It absolutely was about Granolah rise to power. Even the official shonen jump summary confirms this thread of symbolic foreshadowing.

Too obvious, so for me it's a red herring. Granolah is already starting feeling damage from fighting Blue Vegeta alone. If Goku and Vegeta teamed up at him from the start, they would most likely defeat him without putting in so much effort. The Oracle Fish surely meant something scarier that will happen later in the arc.

Although I think ultimately the prophecy may end up referring to the arc's true villain, at least for now (and for this volume in question), Granolah is still the one the Oracle Fish was referring to. So it's fitting that he's in the position of the man who's supposed to be part of his prophecy in this back cover

[DiscountDabi]

People saying Vegeta’s New Form not having eyebrows makes him look like a Caveman, but we’ve had Unga Bunga Vegeta for Years.

Spoiler:

In all seriousness, I assume that Vegeta’s new form is intentionally intended to resemble the Oozaru, whom was responsible for the deaths of Granolah’s people.

We might even see this kind of Visual:

Spoiler:

[PurestEvil]

I've never played Dragon Quest, but I decided to purchase the "Akira Toriyama Dragon Quest Illustrations" art book. It just came in today. Here's a quote from his message at the beginning of the book:

In truth, I've never been that interested in the main characters and big, bad final-boss types; the minor characters and monsters are much more fun. Sadly, I don't get to draw as many as I'd like due to time constraints.

Well...thanks to Toyotaro, it looks like he got what he wanted!

Well this was pretty eye opening, considering how he is infamous for leaving the human fighters in the dust...

[Melkaniator J]

do this form implies that Vegeta is grooming to suceed Beerus? Not in power, but actually becoming a GoD?

I don't think it'll happen. Never did.

I get that the dragon granola wished to was different from the other two Shenlongs, but I hope to high heaven Toyotarou provides more exposition for it. Crucial bits of information like this shouldn’t only be inferred by the readers.

I agree, it shouldn't. Some might be happy with head-canon answers, but that's not how a story (with at least decent quality) works.

In the Broly movie; Didn't Freeza already give his reasons why wishing for such things as immortality [Subject to dire circumstances out of one's control forever; like when he was in Hell]

Yes, and it was beyond stupid. Hell is eternal anyway unless he repents and his soul would be purified from all of its evils, and then reincarnated. And he doesn't seem the type, thus yeah, underwhelming excuse from Akira.

Toriyama drawing Namekuseijin with five fingers? Well, what do you know.

To be consistent with Toyotaro's Piccolo I guess.

[LoganForkHands73]

Proposition: Would this arc be more powerful if the last time we saw Freeza was the Tournament of Power? This arc leans heavily on building up a mystery surrounding Freeza and his presumed eventual appearance, but considering that we've seen him and his fledgling empire already in Super: Broly and even a brief cameo in the Moro arc, we have a frame of reference that Freeza probably hasn't changed significantly since those arcs. Of course, there's every possibility that there is no build up for any significant change (whether that be some new transformation, his army growing in numbers or something different entirely), but it feels like the arc is withholding Freeza for some big reveal. Maybe if we didn't see Freeza at all after Zeno's toybox game, the suspense of wondering what Freeza's been up to since then would be more compelling.

It doesn't help that Freeza -- and this isn't necessarily a criticism -- was treated as a bit of a joke in Broly. Is it too late to rebuild his fearsome reputation?

[Yuji]

Proposition: Would this arc be more powerful if the last time we saw Freeza was the Tournament of Power? This arc leans heavily on building up a mystery surrounding Freeza and his presumed eventual appearance, but considering that we've seen him and his fledgling empire already in Super: Broly and even a brief cameo in the Moro arc, we have a frame of reference that Freeza probably hasn't changed significantly since those arcs. Of course, there's every possibility that there is no build up for any significant change (whether that be some new transformation, his army growing in numbers or something different entirely), but it feels like the arc is withholding Freeza for some big reveal. Maybe if we didn't see Freeza at all after Zeno's toybox game, the suspense of wondering what Freeza's been up to since then would be more compelling.

It doesn't help that Freeza -- and this isn't necessarily a criticism -- was treated as a bit of a joke in Broly. Is it too late to rebuild his fearsome reputation?

My big prediction is that Freeza won't appear at all in this arc.

[DiscountDabi]

Proposition: Would this arc be more powerful if the last time we saw Freeza was the Tournament of Power? This arc leans heavily on building up a mystery surrounding Freeza and his presumed eventual appearance, but considering that we've seen him and his fledgling empire already in Super: Broly and even a brief cameo in the Moro arc, we have a frame of reference that Freeza probably hasn't changed significantly since those arcs. Of course, there's every possibility that there is no build up for any significant change (whether that be some new transformation, his army growing in numbers or something different entirely), but it feels like the arc is withholding Freeza for some big reveal. Maybe if we didn't see Freeza at all after Zeno's toybox game, the suspense of wondering what Freeza's been up to since then would be more compelling.

It doesn't help that Freeza -- and this isn't necessarily a criticism -- was treated as a bit of a joke in Broly. Is it too late to rebuild his fearsome reputation?

My big prediction is that Freeza won't appear at all in this arc.

Or perhaps whats happening now is building up to more. Like how The Android Saga was a build up to the Proper Cell Saga. For how the Saiyan Saga is the Build Up for the Frieza Saga.

Perhaps After the heeters are taken Care of then we can go to Frieza and see what he's up to.

[picc]

Proposition: Would this arc be more powerful if the last time we saw Freeza was the Tournament of Power? This arc leans heavily on building up a mystery surrounding Freeza and his presumed eventual appearance, but considering that we've seen him and his fledgling empire already in Super: Broly and even a brief cameo in the Moro arc, we have a frame of reference that Freeza probably hasn't changed significantly since those arcs. Of course, there's every possibility that there is no build up for any significant change (whether that be some new transformation, his army growing in numbers or something different entirely), but it feels like the arc is withholding Freeza for some big reveal. Maybe if we didn't see Freeza at all after Zeno's toybox game, the suspense of wondering what Freeza's been up to since then would be more compelling.

It doesn't help that Freeza -- and this isn't necessarily a criticism -- was treated as a bit of a joke in Broly. Is it too late to rebuild his fearsome reputation?

You really think any of that is going to stop AT from making Freeza powerful enough to be a threat if it fits his story?

[Jiren The Alpha]

Proposition: Would this arc be more powerful if the last time we saw Freeza was the Tournament of Power? This arc leans heavily on building up a mystery surrounding Freeza and his presumed eventual appearance, but considering that we've seen him and his fledgling empire already in Super: Broly and even a brief cameo in the Moro arc, we have a frame of reference that Freeza probably hasn't changed significantly since those arcs. Of course, there's every possibility that there is no build up for any significant change (whether that be some new transformation, his army growing in numbers or something different entirely), but it feels like the arc is withholding Freeza for some big reveal. Maybe if we didn't see Freeza at all after Zeno's toybox game, the suspense of wondering what Freeza's been up to since then would be more compelling.

It doesn't help that Freeza -- and this isn't necessarily a criticism -- was treated as a bit of a joke in Broly. Is it too late to rebuild his fearsome reputation?

You really think any of that is going to stop AT from making Freeza powerful enough to be a threat if it fits his story?

Finally someone who understands Toriyama's writing

[LoganForkHands73]

You really think any of that is going to stop AT from making Freeza powerful enough to be a threat if it fits his story?

No.