"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:42 pm

GalaxyBusterBuu wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:23 pm Still, what do think will happen when Goku, Vegeta and Granolah realize they've been bamboozled? I imagine they'll be really pissed when they find out they've been played. The Heeters better ramp up their strength because I imagine those three will set course for them at the speed of light once they realize the situation.
I think eventually Granolah will realize revenge is the wrong path and join sides with Goku & Vegeta

Not sure how quickly Goku and Vegeta will realize Granolah is not a bad guy. I assume Goku will especially realize it sooner. He is usually pretty good at understanding people like that.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:55 pm

batistabus wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:17 pm
TKA wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:35 pm
batistabus wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:56 pm I keep seeing complaints that Gas is a Boo clone. People had similar complaints with Moro to Cell, but I won't get into that again.
This was such an insane comparison that I was legitimately flabbergasted and thought maybe I got the short one's name wrong. :lol:
Its been kinda hard for me to keep Gas and Oil's names straight so far...

((By the way, I really appreciate your Vegeta analysis.))
People said the same thing about Elec being a Bojack Clone.

It’s astonishing

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:01 pm

I already mentioned that for all the intel they got the Heeters seemed to miss that Goku & Vegeta probably won’t fight together against Granolah so there won’t be a 2 on 1 advantage (at least not unless things got desperate).

Also the Heeters want Granolah dead. Vegeta is probably more likely to kill if he thinks a character is dangerous but even he is less trigger happy then he used to be and Goku is not going to kill an opponent unless he has no choice.

That is even if Goku and Vegeta would be able to kill Granolah which I doubt.

I wonder if the Heeters have a plan B.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GalaxyBusterBuu » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:04 pm

Kinokima wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:01 pm I already mentioned that for all the intel they got the Heeters seemed to miss that Goku & Vegeta probably won’t fight together against Granolah so there won’t be a 2 on 1 advantage

Also the Heeters want Granolah dead. Vegeta is probably more likely to kill if he thinks a character is dangerous but even he is less trigger happy then he used to be and Goku is not going to kill an opponent unless he has no choice.

That is even if Goku and Vegeta would be able to kill Granolah which I doubt.

I wonder if the Heeters have a plan B.
That's probably why they're trying to power up that little guy. On the off-chance their plan for Granolah to die fails, they want Gas to be powered up once they get their hands on the Dragon Balls so that they can defend themselves. If Granolah catches on, they probably want Gas(little dude) to be strong enough to fight him so that they don't all die since we know Granolah at this point would try to incinerate their asses once he finds out they lied about everything.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:37 pm

GalaxyBusterBuu wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:04 pm
Kinokima wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:01 pm I already mentioned that for all the intel they got the Heeters seemed to miss that Goku & Vegeta probably won’t fight together against Granolah so there won’t be a 2 on 1 advantage

Also the Heeters want Granolah dead. Vegeta is probably more likely to kill if he thinks a character is dangerous but even he is less trigger happy then he used to be and Goku is not going to kill an opponent unless he has no choice.

That is even if Goku and Vegeta would be able to kill Granolah which I doubt.

I wonder if the Heeters have a plan B.
That's probably why they're trying to power up that little guy. On the off-chance their plan for Granolah to die fails, they want Gas to be powered up once they get their hands on the Dragon Balls so that they can defend themselves. If Granolah catches on, they probably want Gas(little dude) to be strong enough to fight him so that they don't all die since we know Granolah at this point would try to incinerate their asses once he finds out they lied about everything.
I wonder if Elec is cruel enough to wish for Gas to be the strongest in the Universe and sacrifice his brother’s lifespan


I really don’t think he actually thought Gas was strong enough to take on Granolah

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:57 pm

batistabus wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:17 pm Its been kinda hard for me to keep Gas and Oil's names straight so far...

((By the way, I really appreciate your Vegeta analysis.))
I honestly can't remember any new characters' names until the story gives me a reason to. Which is why I was very confused about the Buu comparison. I first thought of the fat guy, and was like "But.. he isn't anything like Buu. They're just both fat."

The short one, like you said, is nothing like Pure Buu. They share aesthetic similarities and that's the end of it.

It's like saying Piccolo and Hit are the same because they're both tall.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Hellspawn28 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:45 pm

I see people wondering why Goku's family needs money if he is friends with Bluma. Just because he is friends with the richest person on Earth that does not mean Goku's family will free load off of her.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GalaxyBusterBuu » Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:55 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:45 pm I see people wondering why Goku's family needs money if he is friends with Bluma. Just because he is friends with the richest person on Earth that does not mean Goku's family will free load off of her.
I'm just impressed Chi Chi didn't think something was up when these random people just start offering money so that Goku can fight people without question. Guess the money got to her head and she forgot to ask questions at a large sum of cash.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:06 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:45 pm I see people wondering why Goku's family needs money if he is friends with Bluma. Just because he is friends with the richest person on Earth that does not mean Goku's family will free load off of her.
This is a good thing to bring up.

Would you so shamelessly ask your rich friend for money to support you and your entire family? Maybe you would, but I wouldn't. Goku and Chichi are pretty traditional, so I doubt they'd do this, and I doubt Bulma would oblige. She'd tell Goku to get a damn job.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:28 pm

Yeah, keep asking your rich friend to support you. You won't have one.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JewyB » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:44 pm

Why is everyone talking about a loose connection between Gas and Buu when a straight rip off of Demon King Piccolo was introduced this arc?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by jd55513 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:54 pm

Your thoughts?
I think we all agree that Granolah has Hakai. The hand gesture, the particle effects, Granolah can fly and sense ki(which are techniques, that the dragon gave him)
And it appears Granolah has God ki, because Heetas couldn't "sense " he was stronger?!

Here is the evidence, that Granolah may have UI as well!

https://twitter.com/creative_one15/stat ... 72192?s=19



Think about it.....

It's because if you agree that Granolah has Hakai then you might have to also agree he has UI as well.

The Dragon Toronbo had to "know" who the strongest was before making Granolah the strongest?
Goku was the Strongest mortal in Universe 7.
Why is he the Strongest?
Because he has UI and Hakai.
So the Dragon, used Granolahs life force and latent potential to give him the nessasary power and body to wield those things which make someone the "Strongest"

I actually think Granolah may have all of Gokus abilities lol
Going off the logic of Toronbos wish
What if Granolah knows IT, GenkiDama, Kaioken?


Admittedly it's a big stretch, but that coupled with the fact that this arc started with Goku and Vegeta doing their Hakai and UI Training, though hard work and time, meanwhile Granolah "cheats" and uses the Dragon Balls to aquire the power and techniques of the strongest in Universe 7 (Goku)

Then in the same chapter, we see Granolahs make comments about the Hakai, and his actions against oil were drawn with a odd mannor similar to the motions of UI.(even Macki comments and sees how's he's "dodging" all his attacks).
Then to add more hints, we find out that UI wasn't truly mastered and it need to be used in base.....which Granolah is in base.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Krillin1994 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:36 pm

I think that panel was more to show Granolah’s overwhelming power ‘I can beat you with just one finger’

I wouldn’t like Granolah to have Goku’s techniques and don’t think that will happen in the slightest.

I also don’t think he will have gotten UI from his wish as the last arc shown Moro taking UI without earning it (and we know how that turned out)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:44 pm

I remember that goku and the others can feel the evil ki over time this has been omitted ... since there are characters who can hide their intentions ... like zamasu, beerus and frost
although with broly that is supposed to come back :think:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:52 pm

Krillin1994 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:36 pm I think that panel was more to show Granolah’s overwhelming power ‘I can beat you with just one finger’

I wouldn’t like Granolah to have Goku’s techniques and don’t think that will happen in the slightest.

I also don’t think he will have gotten UI from his wish as the last arc shown Moro taking UI without earning it (and we know how that turned out)
Buuuut, that would have been the point. He did "earn" it, if it were UI. He earned somewhere along the 147 years of training he did, that was condensed and amplified by the Dragon's wish. Granolah's way of cheating wasn't like Moro's, in theory, if it were UI, he did obtain it the hard way by training. The Dragon basically turned Granolah into a future version of himself.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Krillin1994 » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:01 pm

Thani wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:52 pm
Krillin1994 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:36 pm I think that panel was more to show Granolah’s overwhelming power ‘I can beat you with just one finger’

I wouldn’t like Granolah to have Goku’s techniques and don’t think that will happen in the slightest.

I also don’t think he will have gotten UI from his wish as the last arc shown Moro taking UI without earning it (and we know how that turned out)
Buuuut, that would have been the point. He did "earn" it, if it were UI. He earned somewhere along the 147 years of training he did, that was condensed and amplified by the Dragon's wish. Granolah's way of cheating wasn't like Moro's, in theory, if it were UI, he did obtain it the hard way by training. The Dragon basically turned Granolah into a future version of himself.
I think the dragon just literally did it with pure strength gains. Granolah is a competent warrior before making the wish. So it’d just be better if he had his own move set to keep him distinct and unique.

He wasted his wish by not asking the dragon to give him the emotional control/disciple needed to access UI state. Would’ve saved his lifespan and put him up near the top.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:13 pm

Oatmeel said that Granolah's right eye has become more powerful. This eye seems to be the perfect counter for Ultra Instinct, so I doubt Granolah will be able to use the same technique as Goku.

However, there seem to be enough implications that he may be able to use Hakai now. When Granolah tried to detect Freeza's energy, Monaito is surprised that he is able to use this ability now, so it is possible that Granolah has obtained other techniques besides just a big power boost. This would suggest that in addition to obtaining all the strength that he would acquire during his life, the wish also took into account the techniques and other abilities

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:20 am

There are a lot of people confused as to how Hakai is meant to rival Ultra Instinct, and I think I understand what Toyotaro and Toriyama are going for here.

In Chapter 70 of Dragon Ball Supers Manga, Beerus said “We turn something into nothing. And when matter is destroyed it releases heaps of energy; The Explosion is the real highlight of Using Destruction”

We see this very concept of Hakai releasing a crap ton of energy when something is destroyed in chapter 69 where Evolution Vegeta gets one shot by Beerus just destroying a small part of his armor.

If Vegeta was to get really good at this, it would get to the point where he could match of even surpass Goku in power output as with one Hakai he could potentially one shot Goku.

Its an interesting path to take Vegeta indeed.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:13 am

DiscountDabi wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:20 am There are a lot of people confused as to how Hakai is meant to rival Ultra Instinct, and I think I understand what Toyotaro and Toriyama are going for here.

In Chapter 70 of Dragon Ball Supers Manga, Beerus said “We turn something into nothing. And when matter is destroyed it releases heaps of energy; The Explosion is the real highlight of Using Destruction”

We see this very concept of Hakai releasing a crap ton of energy when something is destroyed in chapter 69 where Evolution Vegeta gets one shot by Beerus just destroying a small part of his armor.

If Vegeta was to get really good at this, it would get to the point where he could match of even surpass Goku in power output as with one Hakai he could potentially one shot Goku.

Its an interesting path to take Vegeta indeed.
It kinda reminds me of Tien in the Cell Saga.
He's never shown being an SSJ tier fighter, but he has the Kikoho which was dominating 2nd form Cell

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:49 am

Personally I do think Granolah has Hakai and UI. It would be weird to give him one but not the other. Also in the manga when he is fighting the Heeters there is even a line that he is dodging every move. Also if the Dragon was giving him not just power but techniques to make him the best in the universe why wouldn’t he get both Hakai & UI? Why would UI be left out that doesn’t make sense?

I admit it is somewhat disappointing that after all the training Goku & Vegeta did that Granolah would effortlessly get both the things they are learning but in the end because they trained they will eventually surpass Granolah where he has no more room to grow.

Granolah has to eventually realize that just wishing to be the strongest with no effort means he has already wasted all his potential.

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