"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Aizamasu]

I just want to know why people are so obsessed over proving that the manga isn't canon? I understand why manga fans want to prove that it is canon but the manga being canon doesn't make the anime any less canon. They are both canon. Why does matter whether or not the anime is the only canon?

[Raphael_Z]

(like honestly, who cares if all the fodder universes got eliminated in one chapter?

Many people do. You only think of them as "fodder", as you put it, because nothing interesting was made with them by Toyotarou.

The chances of any of the not relevant universes returning in Super (outside of non-Toriyama filler episodes) are really low, they are, therefore, fodder.

Did you read/watch the original Dragon Ball with Kid Goku? ALL tournament fighters outside of Goku and friends (and those who would become his friends like Tien and Piccolo) were fodder too.

As long as the main fights (Gohan vs Kefla, Jiren vs Gokku, Vegeta vs Toppo, Frieza Roshi and 17 vs Dyspo and Coronel Dude) are good then all is forgiven.

Battle royales are over in a flash, was anyone else honestly upset that Trunks/Goten and A18 quickly eliminated the fodder fighters in the Battle Royale of the Buu Saga? Trimming the fat is good.

PS. Did Kale actually do anything relevant in the anime while on her berserk mode? Her being the responsible for eliminating 4 whole universes (plus 3 of her own fodder teammates) is a really good display of power.

[prince212]

I just want to know why people are so obsessed over proving that the manga isn't canon? I understand why manga fans want to prove that it is canon but the manga being canon doesn't make the anime any less canon. They are both canon. Why does matter whether or not the anime is the only canon?

I guess there’s a kind of war between some anime-manga fans and the canon winner thing fulfill their feelings .
Some criticize manga or anime just because they prefer the other one . The truth is that they seem to combine each other to complete Toriyama,s scripts.. for example toyotaro designed some gods of destruction and Toei designed some warriors , and both manga and anime share those designs .
I just rather to say that my favorite medium to follow this series is the manga , I can re-read it multiple times , while with the anime I’m ok just with watching it one time , but I understand those who feel the opposite.
My wish is for the manga to give us material prior to the anime , that way I will enjoy it 10 times more and also I.m.o the anime will improve .
Concerning that anime-manga dbs war , anime’s troops number is way bigger , and now that they don’t have fresh material they are chapter after chapter looking for excuses to put the manga down and very rarely they will admit some of the good points that the manga has. The word garbage referring manga is very often used , while I don’t recall users calling the anime garbage ( except that guy that call garbage to both of them )
Edit %: I just read in other post somebody calling the anime trash xD , I enjoyed both and have a room for criticizing both of them too .

[TKA]

A lengthy discussion about canon where people deny evidence, argue semantics, shift goal posts, and make wild unfounded conclusions while arguing in circles is the epitome of stereotypical internet nerd discussion.

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Going back to something said earlier: I 100% disagree on the One Piece comparison. I can't stomach One Piece because, while the art is generally good, Oda has no eye for composition. His panels are cluttered with unnecessary detail that distracts the eyes. It's Comics 101 that panels should be distinct and lead your eyes to the next panel in sequence. That's the "flow" of a page, if you will. Toyotaro's manga is pretty okay at doing that; obviously not to the level of Toriyama's manga, but decent enough, whereas One Piece has always been piss poor at it.

Also, obviously comparing a guy who's been doing professional manga for, what, 4 years (Toyotaro) vs a guy who has been doing professional manga for 20 years (Oda) is a dubious prospect in the first place. Of course the latter is going to be far more experienced than the former.

[1345521]

I just want to know why people are so obsessed over proving that the manga isn't canon? I understand why manga fans want to prove that it is canon but the manga being canon doesn't make the anime any less canon. They are both canon. Why does matter whether or not the anime is the only canon?

I guess there’s a kind of war between some anime-manga fans and the canon winner thing fulfill their feelings .
Some criticize manga or anime just because they prefer the other one . The truth is that they seem to combine each other to complete Toriyama,s scripts.. for example toyotaro designed some gods of destruction and Toei designed some warriors , and both manga and anime share those designs .
I just rather to say that my favorite medium to follow this series is the manga , I can re-read it multiple times , while with the anime I’m ok just with watching it one time , but I understand those who feel the opposite.
My wish is for the manga to give us material prior to the anime , that way I will enjoy it 10 times more and also I.m.o the anime will improve .
Concerning that anime-manga dbs war , anime’s troops number is way bigger , and now that they don’t have fresh material they are chapter after chapter looking for excuses to put the manga down and very rarely they will admit some of the good points that the manga has. The word garbage referring manga is very often used , while I don’t recall users calling the anime garbage ( except that guy that call garbage to both of them )
Edit %: I just read in other post somebody calling the anime trash xD , I enjoyed both and have a room for criticizing both of them too .

That's 100% pure facts. That's why I have come to expose (means to wreck in debate) many of the "anime troopers" that exist in this community. Also, I don't even understand why they do what they do. These anime troopers are fighting. A LOSING BATLE Toyotaro is akiras CHOSEN ONE sucessor. Sooner or later he's going to become main Uthor and toei will HAVE to adapt his manga, like sooner or later the dbs manga will become the offcial canon and source material for toei (hopefully this movie is the last time toei does offcial db work on their own - even then it may not have kaioken and evolution which is a postive step). I'm WAITING until toyotaro manga becomes canon. Way to many anime troopers, and with bomb shelling news of toyotaro running toei that will literally break about 75% of their legion right off the back. We need a fusion of the manga and anime in similar matter to db and Z.

[JazzMazz]

A lengthy discussion about canon where people deny evidence, argue semantics, shift goal posts, and make wild unfounded conclusions while arguing in circles is the epitome of stereotypical internet nerd discussion.

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Going back to something said earlier: I 100% disagree on the One Piece comparison. I can't stomach One Piece because, while the art is generally good, Oda has no eye for composition. His panels are cluttered with unnecessary detail that distracts the eyes. It's Comics 101 that panels should be distinct and lead your eyes to the next panel in sequence. That's the "flow" of a page, if you will. Toyotaro's manga is pretty okay at doing that; obviously not to the level of Toriyama's manga, but decent enough, whereas One Piece has always been piss poor at it.

Also, obviously comparing a guy who's been doing professional manga for, what, 4 years (Toyotaro) vs a guy who has been doing professional manga for 20 years (Oda) is a dubious prospect in the first place. Of course the latter is going to be far more experienced than the former.

I disagree 100% as well. Oda is a different artist and storyteller to Toriyama, and that's reflected in his panelling and composition, which is why I find statements like having no eye for composition completely absurd.
This is a good thread that concisely breaks down the manga chapter by chapter, and also has a far bit of art analysis in it as well. Would recommend giving it a read.

[Maxum599]

I just want to know why people are so obsessed over proving that the manga isn't canon? I understand why manga fans want to prove that it is canon but the manga being canon doesn't make the anime any less canon. They are both canon. Why does matter whether or not the anime is the only canon?

I guess there’s a kind of war between some anime-manga fans and the canon winner thing fulfill their feelings .
Some criticize manga or anime just because they prefer the other one . The truth is that they seem to combine each other to complete Toriyama,s scripts.. for example toyotaro designed some gods of destruction and Toei designed some warriors , and both manga and anime share those designs .
I just rather to say that my favorite medium to follow this series is the manga , I can re-read it multiple times , while with the anime I’m ok just with watching it one time , but I understand those who feel the opposite.
My wish is for the manga to give us material prior to the anime , that way I will enjoy it 10 times more and also I.m.o the anime will improve .
Concerning that anime-manga dbs war , anime’s troops number is way bigger , and now that they don’t have fresh material they are chapter after chapter looking for excuses to put the manga down and very rarely they will admit some of the good points that the manga has. The word garbage referring manga is very often used , while I don’t recall users calling the anime garbage ( except that guy that call garbage to both of them )
Edit %: I just read in other post somebody calling the anime trash xD , I enjoyed both and have a room for criticizing both of them too .

I agree both the anime and manga have their flaws, the anime's consistency could have been better and the manga's pacing could definitely use some fixing but i enjoy both mediums and think they are comparable the the best of the original dragon ball series and if i were to give the anime and manga a rating it would be(anime:8.5/manga:8). I enjoyed the anime a little bit more but unlike some people I can see the flaws in the anime and good points in the manga and vice versa yet some people on here just blindly bash and hate on one or the other mediums just to hate and to say the least I think it is childish and a waste of time to blindly bash/hate the other medium.

[Marlowe89]

Oda is a different artist and storyteller to Toriyama

Then why make the comparison to begin with? Oda's storytelling borrows heavily from romanticism and emotional drama, whereas the sensibilities of Toriyama/Toyotaro are far more minimalistic and streamlined in comparison. This is reflected in their art styles. They're both great at what they do, but they're also operating from entirely different narrative philosophies.

With that said, early One Piece is distinctly superior to modern One Piece when it comes to art, layout dynamism and composition in general. While a lot of artists tend to (often subconsciously) evolve their style over the years, Oda's a bit of a special case in that his art actually declined somewhat.

[JazzMazz]

Oda is a different artist and storyteller to Toriyama

Then why make the comparison to begin with? Oda's storytelling borrows heavily from romanticism and emotional drama, whereas the writing style of Toriyama/Toyotaro is far more minimalistic and streamlined in comparison. This is reflected in their art styles. They're both great at what they do, but they're also operating from entirely different narrative philosophies.

With that said, early One Piece is distinctly superior to modern One Piece when it comes to art, layout dynamism and composition in general. While a lot of artists tend to (often subconsciously) evolve their style over the years, Oda's a bit of a unique case in that his art actually declined somewhat.

I don't think, or see, how Oda has really declined that much at all.

His art is still extremely impactful and dynamic(despite age and health being a notable issue), though I will say that his panelling has become rougher with age.

Even despite that, I wouldn't exactly say his declined.
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]
I think its a fine comparison to make considering that One Piece is a direct competitor to DB, and while they may have different styles, comparing things like general dynasism and originality in framing and layouts are applicable comparisons to make.

[1345521]

Oda is a different artist and storyteller to Toriyama

Then why make the comparison to begin with? Oda's storytelling borrows heavily from romanticism and emotional drama, whereas the writing style of Toriyama/Toyotaro is far more minimalistic and streamlined in comparison. This is reflected in their art styles. They're both great at what they do, but they're also operating from entirely different narrative philosophies.

With that said, early One Piece is distinctly superior to modern One Piece when it comes to art, layout dynamism and composition in general. While a lot of artists tend to (often subconsciously) evolve their style over the years, Oda's a bit of a unique case in that his art actually declined somewhat.

I don't think, or see, how Oda has really declined that much at all.

His art is still extremely impactful and dynamic(despite age and health being a notable issue), though I will say that his panelling has become rougher with age.

Even despite that, I wouldn't exactly say his declined.
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]
I think its a fine comparison to make considering that One Piece is a direct competitor to DB, and while they may have different styles, comparing things like general dynasism and originality in framing and layouts are applicable comparisons to make.

It's so hard to make-out what's going. Db manga and dbs mang have much more clear and cleN art, and the paneling...like what's wrong with with the paneling of toyotaro?

[IM21]

It's so hard to make-out what's going. Db manga and dbs mang have much more clear and cleN art, and the paneling...like what's wrong with with the paneling of toyotaro?

DB and Z manga are a masterpiece paneling wise. Especially the Z part when there is action involved. It is something else and no modern figthing manga, like one piece or naruto can compare to it. Here is a video of just how good Toriyama was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFFru4q_4H8

I actually don't have problems with toyotaro cause I can see everything what's going on, but I think he needs to draw big moments better.

One piece, you sometimes have to look real good to see whats going on, but I am already used to it, so its not that big of a problem. But I do prefer Toriyama over Oda. (drawing wise)

[Xeogran]

Did you read/watch the original Dragon Ball with Kid Goku? ALL tournament fighters outside of Goku and friends (and those who would become his friends like Tien and Piccolo) were fodder too.

Except this is an Universal Tournament with all members handpicked by respective GoDs, not a competition on Earth just to win some money, so your argument falls flat.

Since the stakes are so high, we should be seeing more from everyone than just being food for Kale.

Not to mention the Beerus-Quitela rivalry which Toyotaro tried developing more than in anime, yet it wasn't even Beerus' team that got him erased. This was clearly rushed.

[MoscoSama]

Viz : "Kefla is mine"

Herms : "I'll do something about Kefla"


I think Gohan and Freeza will be working together next chapter against Kefla

[Exline]

Toyotaro's panelling has been bothering me for quite a while.

He tends to do too many panels for one page. Especially for unnecessary moments like I had stated before with a boring panel of Hit "winding up" a kick that had no impact whatsoever on Jiren. The same can be said for Vegeta's repetitive kicks towards Toppo.

This also leads to the problem of pacing within these chapters. It is just unbearably slow with all these excess panels. And honestly, more panels are not always good. He can easily say more within fewer panels than with multiple boring transitions of close-ups.

And lastly, I'm tired of how close the panels are together, it gets kind of confusing for me tbh.



I think the biggest fault with Toyotaro's manga is the boring storyboarding on his part. It is just so uninspiring and he tends to repeat attacks constantly. I don't know how times I've seen characters put their arms up with their wrists curled upward, charging a Ki Blast in their palms.

[Miracles]

You said the anime is canon but now you say you don't know where it stands?

Both the anime and manga are sequels to Toriyama's manga. Arguing otherwise means you actually don't know how the Tournament of Power will end, when it already has months ago.

No I didn't say the anime is canon. That's not for me to say, it's for Shueisha/Toriyama to say like they did the DB Super manga.

How is that ridiculous? It is very well known that Americans tend to say what is and what is not canonical without any statement from Toei, Shueisha or Akira Toriyama backing it up. That statement from the wall could very well be another America-only statement, that is why I asked for a source.

And thank goodness I am the kind of person who asks for official confirmation, because it turned out I was correct, all that work was indeed made by an American as Ajay showed. Chris Sabat, IGN and now Viz editors; none of them have the power to dictate what is canonical and what is not related to a Japanese work, their statement in regards to canonicity means absolutely nothing at all.

Yes, it is just as official as calling Ultimate Gohan "Mystic Gohan" or calling Freeza race "frost demon" (another American things that only exists in English stuff). Anyways, I'll end this discussion here. There's no point going further, what I wanted to know was already provided.

No, what you wanted to know was not provided. Ajay only said the wall was put together by a american Viz editor. It does not confirm that the info IS an AMERICAN STATEMENT. Especially when the chief Japanese editor was there sanctioning the entire event with the Bird studio logo on the wall paper.

Again, the differences in using names is not the same as COMPARING TORIYAMA'S ORIGINAL JAPANESE MANGA being continued by DB Super manga. That's a written statement speaking for the whole franchise. There is a huge difference. What we have here is just a denial of the facts presented due to users wanting their precious anime to be number one. I am a guy who likes anime better than the manga but I won't be so childish and ignore authority.

[MoscoSama]

Guys can we get back to talking about the chapter and not pointless arguing about what is canon or more canon?

I'd like to know how you people think the next chapter will unfold?

[Miracles]

Guys can we get back to talking about the chapter and not pointless arguing about what is canon or more canon?

I'd like to know how you people think the next chapter will unfold?

I think Gohan will get help definitely. From maybe Freeza or Master Roshi. His time to use the Mafuba is long overdue and who better to try and use it on Kelfa.

[LightBing]

Guys can we get back to talking about the chapter and not pointless arguing about what is canon or more canon?

I'd like to know how you people think the next chapter will unfold?

I expect next chapter to be half about Gohan vs Kefla with the other half being Muten Roshi plus whoever he'll team up with against Universe 11 remnants bar Jiren.
Freeza will probably interfere against Kefla. Jiren vs Goku and Vegeta vs Toppo will start/continue in the background preparing for the next chapters.

That's my prediction at least.

[1345521]

Did you read/watch the original Dragon Ball with Kid Goku? ALL tournament fighters outside of Goku and friends (and those who would become his friends like Tien and Piccolo) were fodder too.

Except this is an Universal Tournament with all members handpicked by respective GoDs, not a competition on Earth just to win some money, so your argument falls flat.

Since the stakes are so high, we should be seeing more from everyone than just being food for Kale.

Not to mention the Beerus-Quitela rivalry which Toyotaro tried developing more than in anime, yet it wasn't even Beerus' team that got him erased. This was clearly rushed.

I agree, it was a little sped up and we should have gotten more inter universe devolpemdnt but be honest, if we got another chapter like 36, you guys would hate the manga more. But again, most likely everyone is being wished back so what's the point of focusing on fodder when they are inconquesentioal when you keep the main fights to tell a compelling narrative. Point is, toyotaro is doing bigger picture here. Yeah we would like one more chapter 36 like chapter to flesh out fodder but it's an manga. If it was anime adapated, it would have been way better. Point is, what's more memorable is how Klae is a beast, and how we will get a better climax to the story.

[1345521]

Guys can we get back to talking about the chapter and not pointless arguing about what is canon or more canon?

I'd like to know how you people think the next chapter will unfold?

I think Gohan will get help definitely. From maybe Freeza or Master Roshi. His time to use the Mafuba is long overdue and who better to try and use it on Kelfa.

You were on a role there until you had to say dbs anime is better then dbs manga which made me cringe pretty hard, anyway: that's a great idea.
Goku vs jiren
Vegeta vs toppo
17 and Roshi vs dyspo and kahsersal (so happy he's lasted this far, he was such and disappointment in the anime. Toyotaro really amped the pride troopers in the manga)
Gohan and Freeza vs kefla (though I wonder how strong toyotaro will portray gohan. Toyotaro usually knows what he's doing when it comes to power scailing so I doubt he'll just make gohan fight kefla for no reason)