"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Thani]

I always see people bringing this up.

There's functionally no difference between going to another universe and the characters going to any new place in universe 7. If it's not the story the creators want to tell, why force it?

Exactly this. Why do you think the flawed writing is going to become better by going to another Universe? What motivation would they have to just up and leave their family in another universe and go venture off into another one just for shits and giggles?

Not for shits and giggles, the concept of a multiverse war would be very interesting, with a plot that justifies it.

Crisis on Infinite Dragon Worlds

[Jack Bz]

I want the universes to be explored more so that Super can incorporate more characters into the permanent cast like Dragon Ball always did. All of the new permanent cast members aren't combatants in the regular sense. They're either super weak like Jaco or crazy powerful like Zeno.

I would have liked Hit and Jiren to be what Tien and Piccolo were in dragon ball, for example. The classic Dragon Ball trope of a new villain showing their power by beating a previous villain is largely missing in Super. Give me Broly beating Jiren using only his tongue or give me death.

I like the idea of Goku training with another angel as a way for Goku to be in that universe (assuming food bribes are universal). He learnt a lot from Whis but ultimately hit a wall with ultra instinct. Then he got over that wall by training with Merus. Maybe each angel could have helped him with a certain aspect of UI.

[Noah]

It seems my last month post aged like milk...

..but at least this is Toyotaro attempting to do something better than the usual crap he give us every month...

But I should have predicted that, that's Toyotaro for you guys! And before people start to ask, no I didn't really expect Vegeta to get the win, but yes to do something different from what he ALWAYS do when he fights the real deal: get cocky.

I'm not even a Vegeta fan and I mad, why this damn guy can't get a proper development? I'm not talking about feeling sorry by killing some random nobodies on Namek, but ACTUALLY learning with his god damn MISTAKES! And no, I don't take the excuse that this new form makes Vegeta feels this way, cause he's always been like this! And that's Toyotaro for ya "let's have Vegeta fight good for a bit and then use the oversaturated finger reference just to get wrecked later!" He's so sure people would be amused by that for the zillionth time. For the love of god, what a stupid writter!

To me this chapter just hammers down the simple fact that DAMN, THESE FOOLS SHOULD HAVE JUST WORKED TOGETHER FROM THE START. They always lose when they pull this shit. Always. It's really infuriating.

For sure my man and that's another tiresome trend from DB in it's modern era! We've been told since RoF (2015) that Goku and Vegeta could solve most of the threats if they put their pride aside and fought TOGETHER! But it's been 6 years that we have main villains fighting both them on turns and that's pretty lame.

Not exactly. If you had payed attention Vegeta was purposely being cocky and purposely took a lot of damage to get stronger considering these are the mechanics of his new God of destruction state as the chapter shows and that allowed him to remain on Granola's level. So Vegeta's new form is basically the opposite of UI which requires him to be primal, reckless and have him take a hit, so this time he intentionally needed to be like this in order to get stronger and that's ironic. At the end he just got outskilled because of Granola's second red eye. He would have won if Granola didn't suddenly unlock his hidden power.

Sorry mate, but that's a lousy excuse. By all the matters GoD Toppo was not like that "uh but that's anime only", yes but the anime is the main product and should be taken as the main reference always. Also nor Beerus when he was mad with Mr. Boo. I could buy Vegeta going berserk and not thinking properly during the fight, but getting cocky to the point of declaring his superioty to his foe for the millionth time, no. That's repetitive and exhaustive, no matter how the plot wants to force as natural.

[DiscountDabi]

Sorry mate, but that's a lousy excuse. By all the matters GoD Toppo was not like that "uh but that's anime only", yes but the anime is the main product and should be taken as the main reference always. Also nor Beerus when he was mad with Mr. Boo. I could buy Vegeta going berserk and not thinking properly during the fight, but getting cocky to the point of declaring his superioty to his foe for the millionth time, no. That's repetitive and exhaustive, no matter how the plot wants to force as natural.

This take honestly gets under my skin. Toyotaro has no requirement to stick to a cannon he and Toriyama didn't write. Toriyama and Himself didn't make Toppo's god form, Toei did.

The Idea that a writer MUST be consistent with something he didn't make to appease the fans is absolutely ridiculous. Its almost like saying "Toyotaro sucks because he didn't adapt this arc from a fan manga."

If that was the case Hakai would be fodder because the anime has shown it can be surpassed with sheer power anyway, so this form would be even more useless. And why would you want Vegeta to get a failed form that Vegeta beat in the anime. That seems very counterintuitive to putting Vegeta on Goku's level with a form Vegeta already beat.

[Jinto]

GOOD WRITING IS knowing when to follow through expectation and when to subvert it.
I see what they wanted to do here, subverting the "new transformation always win" trope.

Of EVERYTHING they could have done to subvert our expectation (like Earthling being useful,...), they chose to make Vegeta lose even with a new transformation? Vegeta that badly needed his fan to regain FAITH in him ?!! What is THIS S*** !!!
This isn't even fanfic tier of writing ! This lacks any passion in it, it's just a wannabe writer playing with trope.
"Ooooh Vegeta ! You lose because of pride....
Oooooh Goku ! You airhead ! Here, take your guard because you dropped it ! AGAIN !!!!"

I'm now convinced that nobody really care about DB as a story anymore.

[Miracles]

GOOD WRITING IS knowing when to follow through expectation and when to subvert it.
I see what they wanted to do here, subverting the "new transformation always win" trope.

Of EVERYTHING they could have done to subvert our expectation (like Earthling being useful,...), they chose to make Vegeta lose even with a new transformation? Vegeta that badly needed his fan to regain FAITH in him ?!! What is THIS S*** !!!
This isn't even fanfic tier of writing ! This lacks any passion in it, it's just a wannabe writer playing with trope.
"Ooooh Vegeta ! You lose because of pride....
Oooooh Goku ! You airhead ! Here, take your guard because you dropped it ! AGAIN !!!!"

I'm now convinced that nobody really care about DB as a story anymore.

Not true. The story simply followed through the picture it painted for the readers. Regardless of Goku and Vegeta being more powerful than ever. Granolah is still the strongest in the universe right now.

[Jinto]

GOOD WRITING IS knowing when to follow through expectation and when to subvert it.
I see what they wanted to do here, subverting the "new transformation always win" trope.

Of EVERYTHING they could have done to subvert our expectation (like Earthling being useful,...), they chose to make Vegeta lose even with a new transformation? Vegeta that badly needed his fan to regain FAITH in him ?!! What is THIS S*** !!!
This isn't even fanfic tier of writing ! This lacks any passion in it, it's just a wannabe writer playing with trope.
"Ooooh Vegeta ! You lose because of pride....
Oooooh Goku ! You airhead ! Here, take your guard because you dropped it ! AGAIN !!!!"

I'm now convinced that nobody really care about DB as a story anymore.

Not true. The story simply followed through the picture it painted for the readers. Regardless of Goku and Vegeta being more powerful than ever. Granolah is still the strongest in the universe right now.

If so, then they should have interrupted the fight just after Vegeta's transformation so as to keep the mysticism surrounding it.
Instead of THIS...this is just poorly planned if planned at all; tanking every hit and blast ? Really ? And it "makes you stronger"? So vague and subjective. It can't possibly work without it feeling like plot convinience.

[kemuri07]

No matter how many times people keep saying it, this argument makes no freaking sense. How exactly is letting Vegeta win doing "something different?" How exactly would have made the storytelling better? More importantly, how the hell can anyone even make silly statements like when we're not even at the half-way point of this arc. Like, holy shit, dude.


If you're basing the entirety of the quality of a plotline on "whether or not my favorite character wins or not" is so goddamn shallow. It reinforces my believe that there's a portion of the audience who only likes DBZ because "I LIKE IT WHEN GOKU DO SPIRITBOMB AND PUNCHES THING HAH HAH."

Some of you need to sit down and chill out.

[ZodiacBeast]

No matter how many times people keep saying it, this argument makes no freaking sense. How exactly is letting Vegeta win doing "something different?" How exactly would have made the storytelling better? More importantly, how the hell can anyone even make silly statements like when we're not even at the half-way point of this arc. Like, holy shit, dude.


If you're basing the entirety of the quality of a plotline on "whether or not my favorite character wins or not" is so goddamn shallow. It reinforces my believe that there's a portion of the audience who only likes DBZ because "I LIKE IT WHEN GOKU DO SPIRITBOMB AND PUNCHES THING HAH HAH."

Some of you need to sit down and chill out.

It's the teasing with Vegeta that irritates me. He doesn't need to win every time, but when a potentially cool victory gets yanked away, it's annoying. This applies to any character, but for whatever reason it seems to apply to Vegeta more than most.

"Wow, he's actually going to defeat Mo-oh, wait."

Spoiler:

I actually like Moro/Seven-Three

[kemuri07]

No matter how many times people keep saying it, this argument makes no freaking sense. How exactly is letting Vegeta win doing "something different?" How exactly would have made the storytelling better? More importantly, how the hell can anyone even make silly statements like when we're not even at the half-way point of this arc. Like, holy shit, dude.


If you're basing the entirety of the quality of a plotline on "whether or not my favorite character wins or not" is so goddamn shallow. It reinforces my believe that there's a portion of the audience who only likes DBZ because "I LIKE IT WHEN GOKU DO SPIRITBOMB AND PUNCHES THING HAH HAH."

Some of you need to sit down and chill out.

It's the teasing with Vegeta that irritates me. He doesn't need to win every time, but when a potentially cool victory gets yanked away, it's annoying. This applies to any character, but for whatever reason it seems to apply to Vegeta more than most.

"Wow, he's actually going to defeat Mo-oh, wait."

Spoiler:

I actually like Moro/Seven-Three

well he is the rival character. That's kinda how that works.

More importantly, what would that victory even do for the story? What would any of the characters even stand to gain for that to happen? I'm not suggesting that it couldn't happen, I'm arguing that there's nothing wrong with the way things are going. Also, again, just knocking it because Vegeta didn't win ignores the actual context of the chapter: Vegeta is fucking badass here. It's the most I've enjoyed watching the character in years, and felt like a return to the Namek Saga-era where he was cunning and slightly unhinged. There's a lot here that I enjoyed, and I think its shame that all anyone can care is "well he didn't win so I don't care." I just find that incredibly superficial and shallow.

[ZodiacBeast]

No matter how many times people keep saying it, this argument makes no freaking sense. How exactly is letting Vegeta win doing "something different?" How exactly would have made the storytelling better? More importantly, how the hell can anyone even make silly statements like when we're not even at the half-way point of this arc. Like, holy shit, dude.


If you're basing the entirety of the quality of a plotline on "whether or not my favorite character wins or not" is so goddamn shallow. It reinforces my believe that there's a portion of the audience who only likes DBZ because "I LIKE IT WHEN GOKU DO SPIRITBOMB AND PUNCHES THING HAH HAH."

Some of you need to sit down and chill out.

It's the teasing with Vegeta that irritates me. He doesn't need to win every time, but when a potentially cool victory gets yanked away, it's annoying. This applies to any character, but for whatever reason it seems to apply to Vegeta more than most.

"Wow, he's actually going to defeat Mo-oh, wait."

Spoiler:

I actually like Moro/Seven-Three

well he is the rival character. That's kinda how that works.

More importantly, what would that victory even do for the story? What would any of the characters even stand to gain for that to happen? I'm not suggesting that it couldn't happen, I'm arguing that there's nothing wrong with the way things are going. Also, again, just knocking it because Vegeta didn't win ignores the actual context of the chapter: Vegeta is fucking badass here. It's the most I've enjoyed watching the character in years, and felt like a return to the Namek Saga-era where he was cunning and slightly unhinged. There's a lot here that I enjoyed, and I think its shame that all anyone can care is "well he didn't win so I don't care." I just find that incredibly superficial and shallow.

He's still badass, I guess it's just a matter of opinion. I don't really care as much that Granollah seems to be winning atm because it makes sense - he's supposed to be OP, new Veggie form or not. Moro was annoying because it looked like Vegeta had it in the bag.

I think of "Resurrection F" every time Vegeta gets cocky now.

[Miracles]

GOOD WRITING IS knowing when to follow through expectation and when to subvert it.
I see what they wanted to do here, subverting the "new transformation always win" trope.

Of EVERYTHING they could have done to subvert our expectation (like Earthling being useful,...), they chose to make Vegeta lose even with a new transformation? Vegeta that badly needed his fan to regain FAITH in him ?!! What is THIS S*** !!!
This isn't even fanfic tier of writing ! This lacks any passion in it, it's just a wannabe writer playing with trope.
"Ooooh Vegeta ! You lose because of pride....
Oooooh Goku ! You airhead ! Here, take your guard because you dropped it ! AGAIN !!!!"

I'm now convinced that nobody really care about DB as a story anymore.

Not true. The story simply followed through the picture it painted for the readers. Regardless of Goku and Vegeta being more powerful than ever. Granolah is still the strongest in the universe right now.

If so, then they should have interrupted the fight just after Vegeta's transformation so as to keep the mysticism surrounding it.
Instead of THIS...this is just poorly planned if planned at all; tanking every hit and blast ? Really ? And it "makes you stronger"? So vague and subjective. It can't possibly work without it feeling like plot convinience.

If the fight was interrupted, they would not have been able to show Granolah as the strongest. Even with Vegeta's new power, it had to be displayed that he still couldn't stand up to the strongest in the universe.

[Cipher]

Vegeta’s post-transformation fight has a very important story purpose: It is fun.

[FlpShimizu]

Vegeta’s post-transformation fight has a very important story purpose: It is fun.

"You and anyone else isn't allowed to have fun if my fantasies and expectations for Vegeta don't come true!! "

That's how it sounds to me, everytime.

[TKA]

Vegeta that badly needed his fan to regain FAITH in him ?!! What is THIS S*** !!!

Bro, this is a story, not sports.

Vegeta is not a person, he's a character.

Vegeta has no needs, the story does.

[Thani]

And to be fair, Vegeta held his own quite well. His transformation wasn't for nothing, it did serve to show that he can potentially defeat Granolah by either improving on it, fighting smarter or teaming up with Goku.

[kemuri07]

Even if Vegeta won..it would only stave off the inevitable: We had to see the pay off of Granola's wish. This causes tension.

This is how good storytelling works. You add tension. Ultimately we know things are going to work out, but suspension of disbelief means you play along with it. Vegeta losing despite a new technique makes me want to keep reading because I want to know how Vegeta and Goku are going to approach this.

So when Vegeta finally does master this technique, it becomes that more gratifying when he does win.

[TheNingen]

Exactly this. Why do you think the flawed writing is going to become better by going to another Universe? What motivation would they have to just up and leave their family in another universe and go venture off into another one just for shits and giggles?

Not for shits and giggles, the concept of a multiverse war would be very interesting, with a plot that justifies it.

Crisis on Infinite Dragon Worlds

Fuck you. I actually really really like that title.

[Yomi]

Really nice seeing the Byakugan finally make it's way into Dragon Ball.

[Young-Jah]

When will chapter 76 comes out.