"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[WittyUsername]

On the subject of Moro's design and its "similarity" to Perfect Cell - Really, haven't we been here before?

Whether you think Moro's OG73-I absorbed state is a good design or not, how much of it is actually similar to Perfect Cell? Leave aside the faces for a minute, which are a tiny part of any design, and look at it afresh - how much is actually similar?:



I genuinely can't see anything, except for them both having a humanoid shape. That's really not good enough to rag on a design for being 'derivative', whatever one may think of its merits.

The face is the whole problem. If he had his goat face no one would complain about this.

To be clear, my issue isn't with people not liking the design, or even with them thinking that the change here swapped the unique for the generic, in terms of facial features specifically, and this being a downgrade from what we had.

But that's not the critique I actually see from the vast majority of people on here.

The critique I see is a blanket 'He's a Perfect Cell Rip-Off' (or identical sentiment wrapped up in slightly different verbiage), parroted like it's a self-evident truth instead of an extremely slanted position that relies on ignoring 90% of the design and privileging a single feature in one's appraisal for...no real reason, at all, as far as I can see.

This willingness to sidestep the whole truth and not letting it get in the way of a criticism leads me to conclude that often when this argument pops up, it's simply being pursued in bad faith by people who already don't like the series, looking for something else to bash.

I would think that the faces looking similar makes the comparison pretty valid, especially when both forms follow the pattern of taking a less human looking design, and making it look humanoid. It doesn’t help that both forms are also obtained through devouring a mechanical creature with a number for a name.

[Ilikepictures-meh]

The face is the whole problem. If he had his goat face no one would complain about this.

To be clear, my issue isn't with people not liking the design, or even with them thinking that the change here swapped the unique for the generic, in terms of facial features specifically, and this being a downgrade from what we had.

But that's not the critique I actually see from the vast majority of people on here.

The critique I see is a blanket 'He's a Perfect Cell Rip-Off' (or identical sentiment wrapped up in slightly different verbiage), parroted like it's a self-evident truth instead of an extremely slanted position that relies on ignoring 90% of the design and privileging a single feature in one's appraisal for...no real reason, at all, as far as I can see.

This willingness to sidestep the whole truth and not letting it get in the way of a criticism leads me to conclude that often when this argument pops up, it's simply being pursued in bad faith by people who already don't like the series, looking for something else to bash.

I would think that the faces looking similar makes the comparison pretty valid, especially when both forms follow the pattern of taking a less human looking design, and making it look humanoid. It doesn’t help that both forms are also obtained through devouring a mechanical creature with a number for a name.

17 nor 18 are "mechanical creatures", so you're attempt at logic is a fallacy at best. Cell didn't absorb 16, a mechanical creature as you put it. Which would've gave your argument better legs to stand on. Having a similar face is not a valid comparison when he looks nothing like Cell otherwise.
Especially in a series originally created by Toriyama, a guy who's entire style is based on many characters having "same face". Just look at his designs in other projects, so Toyotaro and anyone else involved with making this series going forward is just following the path he produced.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I would think that the faces looking similar makes the comparison pretty valid, especially when both forms follow the pattern of taking a less human looking design, and making it look humanoid. It doesn’t help that both forms are also obtained through devouring a mechanical creature with a number for a name.

It isn't at all clear to me that a design accommodating to the thing it's absorbing (in this case, Moro's design accommodating to OG73-I) makes Moro's design derivative of Perfect Cell's. Majin Buu became more humanoid when he absorbed individuals with human-looking facial features as well, unsurprisingly. Deliberately decontextualising an element of design shared between lots of characters, to argue that the whole design is derivative of a particular character, is a real reach.

As for the other similarities you mention - they're not design features, but they're kind of superficial all the same. Moro doesn't gain any power to speak of simply by eating OG73-I, but by getting the power backed up in him back - that is to say, his own power. It's more like eating himself to gain power, a la Majin Buu, than absorbing an Android to achieve a predetermined design, a la Cell.

In short, I'm still not convinced of the validity of the comparison, much less so when it's applied with such a broad brush.

[WittyUsername]

To be clear, my issue isn't with people not liking the design, or even with them thinking that the change here swapped the unique for the generic, in terms of facial features specifically, and this being a downgrade from what we had.

But that's not the critique I actually see from the vast majority of people on here.

The critique I see is a blanket 'He's a Perfect Cell Rip-Off' (or identical sentiment wrapped up in slightly different verbiage), parroted like it's a self-evident truth instead of an extremely slanted position that relies on ignoring 90% of the design and privileging a single feature in one's appraisal for...no real reason, at all, as far as I can see.

This willingness to sidestep the whole truth and not letting it get in the way of a criticism leads me to conclude that often when this argument pops up, it's simply being pursued in bad faith by people who already don't like the series, looking for something else to bash.

I would think that the faces looking similar makes the comparison pretty valid, especially when both forms follow the pattern of taking a less human looking design, and making it look humanoid. It doesn’t help that both forms are also obtained through devouring a mechanical creature with a number for a name.

17 nor 18 are "mechanical creatures", so you're attempt at logic is a fallacy at best. Cell didn't absorb 16, a mechanical creature as you put it. Which would've gave your argument better legs to stand on. Having a similar face is not a valid comparison when he looks nothing like Cell otherwise.
Especially in a series originally created by Toriyama, a guy who's entire style is based on many characters having "same face". Just look at his designs in other projects, so Toyotaro and anyone else involved with making this series going forward is just following the path he produced.

Moro didn’t have a similar face to Cell before that, so I don’t understand why it’s not valid to bring that up. Also, #17 and #18 are both classified as artificial humans, or cyborgs, which is in a similar ballpark as a full-on robot. Obviously, I never claimed that Moro looks exactly like Cell. He’s not an insect with wings, so why would he? I’m simply saying that the design for his transformation comes across as derivative. Why am I not allowed to say that?

[WittyUsername]

I would think that the faces looking similar makes the comparison pretty valid, especially when both forms follow the pattern of taking a less human looking design, and making it look humanoid. It doesn’t help that both forms are also obtained through devouring a mechanical creature with a number for a name.

It isn't at all clear to me that a design accommodating to the thing it's absorbing (in this case, Moro's design accommodating to OG73-I) makes Moro's design derivative of Perfect Cell's. Majin Buu became more humanoid when he absorbed individuals with human-looking facial features as well, unsurprisingly. Deliberately decontextualising an element of design shared between lots of characters, to argue that the whole design is derivative of a particular character, is a real reach.

As for the other similarities you mention - they're not design features, but they're kind of superficial all the same. Moro doesn't gain any power to speak of simply by eating OG73-I, but by getting the power backed up in him back - that is to say, his own power. It's more like eating himself to gain power, a la Majin Buu, than absorbing an Android to achieve a predetermined design, a la Cell.

In short, I'm still not convinced of the validity of the comparison, much less so when it's applied with such a broad brush.

I’d say that Majin Boo absorbing people is also derivative of Cell, and Boo is easily at his least interesting after he does that. How does that make Moro any less derivative? If you ask me, absorbing villains in Dragon Ball are overused in general at this point.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I’d say that Majin Boo absorbing people is also derivative of Cell

I don't agree with this, either. Absorption doesn't necessitate physical transformation - it didn't for Cell when he absorbed ordinary people, for instance. But it happens for Buu every time he does it. Buu isn't any more derivative of Cell for having that basic ability than he would be derivative of, say, Freeza for transforming.

But all this rather gets off the point of a logical accommodation of a base design to a supplemented design once it's incorporated as a characteristic, which is the principal reason why I brought Buu up in the first place - eating/absorbing a human-looking thing makes you look more human. One doesn't need to cry 'rip-off' for that, because it's quite obvious that this should be the case; in fact, it looks very much like a distortion if one were to try arguing that case. Which is what I'm saying.

How does that make Moro any less derivative?

Because he isn't deriving significant characteristics from Perfect Cell, whether from a design, capability, or narrative perspective - which is the point being made, after all.

[WittyUsername]

I’d say that Majin Boo absorbing people is also derivative of Cell

I don't agree with this, either. Absorption doesn't necessitate physical transformation - it didn't for Cell when he absorbed ordinary people, for instance. But it happens for Buu every time he does it. Buu isn't any more derivative of Cell for having that basic ability than he would be derivative of, say, Freeza for transforming.

But all this rather gets off the point of a logical accommodation of a base design to a supplemented design once it's incorporated as a characteristic, which is the principal reason why I brought Buu up in the first place - eating/absorbing a human-looking thing makes you look more human. One doesn't need to cry 'rip-off' for that, because it's quite obvious that this should be the case; in fact, it looks very much like a distortion if one were to try arguing that case. Which is what I'm saying.

How does that make Moro any less derivative?

Because he isn't deriving significant characteristics from Perfect Cell, whether from a design, capability, or narrative perspective - which is the point being made, after all.

Moro’s ability to absorb people’s energy is also similar to Cell in his first form. And to be frank, Moro in general derives a lot of stuff from past villains. His backstory of being sealed away is similar to Piccolo Daimao and Boo, him starting off old and decrepit looking, only to regain his youth, is just like Piccolo Daimao, him absorbing people’s energy is like Cell, and him being an evil wizard who often relies on magic is similar to Babidi. Hell, even him merging with the Earth is similar to what Zamasu does in the anime.

If you like Moro, more power to you, but I think he’s extremely boring, and not remotely unique. He comes across as a boring stock villain to me.

[Magnificent Ponta]

to be frank, Moro in general derives a lot of stuff from past villains. His backstory of being sealed away is similar to Piccolo Daimao and Boo, him starting off old and decrepit looking, only to regain his youth, is just like Piccolo Daimao

I agree that Moro derives a great deal from Piccolo Daimao as a concept. I've said so several times in the past (so has Toyotarou, unsurprisingly - Piccolo Daimao was the whole vibe he was going for). My issue is with people who lazily assert, without much foundation, that his design is a straight and obvious rip-off of Perfect Cell. Which it isn't.

If you like Moro, more power to you, but I think he’s extremely boring, and not remotely unique. He comes across as a boring stock villain to me.

I'm not particularly attached to Moro - I've likewise said before that he's way too straightforward as a villain; he needed some extra twist to his character to make him truly memorable, but he's too much like Piccolo Daimao (who also could've done with something more to his character, frankly).

Ultimately, my issue isn't with people criticising Moro (or his design, if you want to do that; I'm not especially wedded to that either). It's with people saying things that don't appear to be actually true.

[WittyUsername]

to be frank, Moro in general derives a lot of stuff from past villains. His backstory of being sealed away is similar to Piccolo Daimao and Boo, him starting off old and decrepit looking, only to regain his youth, is just like Piccolo Daimao

I agree that Moro derives a great deal from Piccolo Daimao as a concept. I've said so several times in the past (so has Toyotarou, unsurprisingly - Piccolo Daimao was the whole vibe he was going for). My issue is with people who lazily assert, without much foundation, that his design is a straight and obvious rip-off of Perfect Cell. Which it isn't.

If you like Moro, more power to you, but I think he’s extremely boring, and not remotely unique. He comes across as a boring stock villain to me.

I'm not particularly attached to Moro - I've likewise said before that he's way too straightforward as a villain; he needed some extra twist to his character to make him truly memorable, but he's too much like Piccolo Daimao (who also could've done with something more to his character, frankly).

Ultimately, my issue isn't with people criticising Moro (or his design, if you want to do that; I'm not especially wedded to that either). It's with people saying things that don't appear to be actually true.

The design of Moro’s transformed state was never my biggest problem with him. Hell, if that was how Moro looked from the outset, I probably wouldn’t have even considered it worth bringing up. It’s just something I thought was worth taking note of because of how relatively unique his previous form is. I’m not a huge fan of the goat design, but it certainly stands out compared to the typical Dragon Ball villain. His transformed state just kind of blends in with the others.

[LoganForkHands73]

to be frank, Moro in general derives a lot of stuff from past villains. His backstory of being sealed away is similar to Piccolo Daimao and Boo, him starting off old and decrepit looking, only to regain his youth, is just like Piccolo Daimao

I agree that Moro derives a great deal from Piccolo Daimao as a concept. I've said so several times in the past (so has Toyotarou, unsurprisingly - Piccolo Daimao was the whole vibe he was going for). My issue is with people who lazily assert, without much foundation, that his design is a straight and obvious rip-off of Perfect Cell. Which it isn't.

If you like Moro, more power to you, but I think he’s extremely boring, and not remotely unique. He comes across as a boring stock villain to me.

I'm not particularly attached to Moro - I've likewise said before that he's way too straightforward as a villain; he needed some extra twist to his character to make him truly memorable, but he's too much like Piccolo Daimao (who also could've done with something more to his character, frankly).

Ultimately, my issue isn't with people criticising Moro (or his design, if you want to do that; I'm not especially wedded to that either). It's with people saying things that don't appear to be actually true.

I believe people mainly take issue with the principle than the result, somewhat understandably. Moro-73 may look different from Perfect Cell, but the principle behind his design is clearly similar, leading to these comparisons. Animalistic villain absorbs a cybernetic being, becomes more humanoid and powerful.

To play devil's advocate some more, comparing Moro-73 and Perfect Cell directly on a design level does draw out similarities, beyond just their faces. They have a similar body shape with their tall, slender yet muscular builds; some vestigial "bio-armour" over the chest; large horn(-like) head growths; a black dome on their forehead; an exaggerated brow... I can understand the criticisms that this all feels very familiar.

But as I said in another comment, I've grown quite fond of Moro-73, more so than his younger forms surprisingly.

[The Undying]

Also, his introduction art is incredibly reminiscent of Perfect Cell's. Similar cloud/rock layout, his head and feet bleed over the panel like Cell, etc.

I'm pretty sure 7-3 Moro's presentation was deliberately meant to evoke a similar feeling to Cell's final form. It's just one of many things designed to make the arc a throwback (some would call it a love letter, others a derivative rip-off) to the original manga.

[Koitsukai]

I'm more baffled when people claim this arc was filler and can/will be "skipped" by the anime rather than people finding similarities where there aren't.

It boggles me because the milestone reached by Goku in this arc is a crucial moment in his martial arts career, with nothing to envy the SS prophecy becoming true in Namek (as a defining moment in Goku's life that is).
I can understand people not liking the arc, disliking how Goku mastered the technique, I may even agree that it was too soon and that it should've been done in the following arc (although that may've stretched the mastering way too much). But denying what happened here only because it's not what people would've wanted has me speechless.

As of now, and assuming they won't hamper it in the future, Goku can unleash his full potential at the drop of a hat and defeat anybody without even thinking. Goku will not be the same after this arc (again, hoping they won't retcon it someway). His training won't be the same, and his relationship with his crew won't be the same either.
Like, really, what's so skippable about that kind of growth?

[Alruneia]

I'm more baffled when people claim this arc was filler and can/will be "skipped" by the anime rather than people finding similarities where there aren't.

It was a relevant question in the beginning of the arc, when the story seemed like it might end up as more of a small excursion than a huge thing. It stopped being likely once the arc got to the training part, and by now it's practically impossible. Like you say, major, unskippable development has happened. The best example is Goku's improved grip on UI, which you'd have to directly "undo" at this point. And we don't even know what happens when Beerus and Whis go to the Grand Minister next chapter yet. What if Beerus gets El Grande Padre'd? How would you skip past that? (He probably won't actually get killed or anything, but there's a good chance there'll be consequences.)
At this point I think that most of the "it's filler" sentiment comes from people who heard it from other people at one point and haven't actually read the manga themselves. There may also be some negative bias going around, but I prefer to think that it's not born from malice.

[Matches Malone]

I think that most of the "it's filler" sentiment comes from people who heard it from other people at one point and haven't actually read the manga themselves.

It mostly has to do with the idea of Toriyama not being involved with it (despite that being proven wrong time and again). This arc was receiving negative comments way before we really knew what it was about, as fans unfortunately made up their minds about it based on who they thought was writing it. Don't get me wrong, it has issues, but the negativity started way before those issues started showing up.

[Magnificent Ponta]

comparing Moro-73 and Perfect Cell directly on a design level does draw out similarities, beyond just their faces. They have a similar body shape with their tall, slender yet muscular builds; some vestigial "bio-armour" over the chest; large horn(-like) head growths; a black dome on their forehead; an exaggerated brow... I can understand the criticisms that this all feels very familiar.

I know you've said this is a Devil's Advocate play, but to proffer any of this seriously would be a reach. Most of Dragon Ball's main villains are tall, slender, and muscular, either all at once or at different times in their development; moreover, the lithe Moro doesn't look very much like the square-ish, blocky Cell in that regard.

As for the bio-armour, horns, and brow - those aren't examples of Moro deriving design details from Cell once he absorbed OG73-I - he always had the brow, the horns, and the bio-armour (and, by contrast, Cell has armour all over - it's a carapace for a bug-man). Facially speaking, for a moment, he also had the lines under his eyes running down his cheeks from the start, too. He had all these things before his design changed to incorporate OG73-I's features, when he was still a frail old goat.

How far can one reasonably push these "comparisons"?

Also, his introduction art is incredibly reminiscent of Perfect Cell's. Similar cloud/rock layout, his head and feet bleed over the panel like Cell, etc.

I'm pretty sure 7-3 Moro's presentation was deliberately meant to evoke a similar feeling to Cell's final form. It's just one of many things designed to make the arc a throwback (some would call it a love letter, others a derivative rip-off) to the original manga.

I think the plot beat is meant to land very differently. When Cell becomes Perfect, it's meant to be the dreaded culmination of his being, now achieved and revealed. When Moro eats OG73-I, it is, as Goku says, "one thing after another", a turning of the tables and a snatching of victory from the jaws of defeat to make the heroic struggle futile again.

If one were disposed to force a comparison, one might look more towards Super Buu absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo than towards Cell (for anything, for that matter). It, too, has a similarly-composed full-page reveal shot with a cloud-rock layout and the villain stepping out of the panel, because...it's a reveal shot.

But if you're talking about "vibes", again it raises the question of how far can one reasonably go in the quest to 'prove' Moro is a patchwork pastiche of other villains, when one is just talking about a 'feeling'? I, for instance, get a very strong 'Emperor Palpatine' "vibe" when Moro first emerges on Namek - but I'd never try to argue that he's derivative of him.

[marumuju]

I found Goku's "God Ki Giant transformation" interesting. This type of transformation might bring more scale into the god-class fights, or one at least hopes so. I think the series hasn't had too many different ki manipulations other than the standard energy beams and auras, although at least Gotenks' ghosts are an exception. Moro's fusing with the planet was a welcome change to the normal fight structure. It still might have been pulled of a bit better but perhaps there are more universe-bending fights in store later on.

[BWri]

Moro’s ability to absorb people’s energy is also similar to Cell in his first form. And to be frank, Moro in general derives a lot of stuff from past villains. His backstory of being sealed away is similar to Piccolo Daimao and Boo, him starting off old and decrepit looking, only to regain his youth, is just like Piccolo Daimao, him absorbing people’s energy is like Cell, and him being an evil wizard who often relies on magic is similar to Babidi. Hell, even him merging with the Earth is similar to what Zamasu does in the anime.

If you like Moro, more power to you, but I think he’s extremely boring, and not remotely unique. He comes across as a boring stock villain to me.

SethTheProgrammer put an interesting spin on all this for me. He mentions that Moro represents all of Goku's previous failures/mistakes which is why he derives so many characteristics from other villains and that Goku turned other mistakes, mainly the series of mistakes he made during the Buu arc as he looked for a successor into a solution (Uub) and that solution is what wiped away the embodiment of his previous mistakes or sins as some people might call it.

One could say that Seth's spin reaches, but it does make a lot of sense. Metaphorically, this works for me. It's funny that ultimately, all of Goku's successor's did contribute to powering him up, with Uub's contribution being the biggest ... but that's because every support character was represented.

Anyways, that may give more context to what Moro was supposed to represent. If that was the intention, it does make him more interesting, but it does require a lot of subtext to even notice something like that. I sure didn't.

[LoganForkHands73]

comparing Moro-73 and Perfect Cell directly on a design level does draw out similarities, beyond just their faces. They have a similar body shape with their tall, slender yet muscular builds; some vestigial "bio-armour" over the chest; large horn(-like) head growths; a black dome on their forehead; an exaggerated brow... I can understand the criticisms that this all feels very familiar.

I know you've said this is a Devil's Advocate play, but to proffer any of this seriously would be a reach. Most of Dragon Ball's main villains are tall, slender, and muscular, either all at once or at different times in their development; moreover, the lithe Moro doesn't look very much like the square-ish, blocky Cell in that regard.

As for the bio-armour, horns, and brow - those aren't examples of Moro deriving design details from Cell once he absorbed OG73-I - he always had the brow, the horns, and the bio-armour (and, by contrast, Cell has armour all over - it's a carapace for a bug-man). Facially speaking, for a moment, he also had the lines under his eyes running down his cheeks from the start, too. He had all these things before his design changed to incorporate OG73-I's features, when he was still a frail old goat.

I wouldn't argue that Imperfect or Semi-Perfect Cell are anything like Moro's frail old goat form, but not to belabour the same point yet again, the process of him "refining" his animalistic features into a more humanoid form is similar to Cell, who did the same thing over the course of his transformation cycle. With Moro, the lines on his face were meant to resemble a muzzle on a goat, but once he lost the bovid facial structure, they made him look like a dead ringer for Perfect Cell.

For sure, it's an overused talking point but it's not without merit, and not everyone even views it as a bad thing. I've seen quite a few people praise Moro-73 on a design level, and I can say that even though I like it, the context behind the form (plus the face) is very reminiscent of Perfect Cell, just as how Moro's overall personality is very derivative of Piccolo Daimao, just as how his pleas for help were reminiscent of Freeza on Namek, etc. I don't see the point in denying this one clearly visible comparison with Cell when so much else about Moro was derived from past villains. You brought up Majin Buu but his M.O. as Super Buu quickly became derivative of Cell too; the imagery of a towering, indestructible monster going around eating/absorbing people then fully merging with other beings to become more humanoid owed just as much to Cell. But again, that's not even necessarily a bad thing.

It's like, for a random example, Darth Malak from Knights of the Old Republic -- the guy is clearly his own character, has a fairly distinct design and storyline, but he clearly owes a lot to the OG Sith Lord Darth Vader as an imposing dark lord with metal prosthetics to cover his horrific disfigurements. Him being based on Vader doesn't entirely devalue him as a character but it's okay to acknowledge his inspirations.

How far can one reasonably push these "comparisons"?

That's about as far as it goes, really, and for some that's enough to draw that conclusion.

I think the plot beat is meant to land very differently. When Cell becomes Perfect, it's meant to be the dreaded culmination of his being, now achieved and revealed. When Moro eats OG73-I, it is, as Goku says, "one thing after another", a turning of the tables and a snatching of victory from the jaws of defeat to make the heroic struggle futile again.

In some ways I think it borrows from both Cell and Buu, in that Buu kept transforming with little foreshadowing and always pulling another card out of his ass to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. However, the situation that led to Moro absorbing Seven-Three even sprang from Vegeta dawdling too much when he could've finished him off just like with Cell (although with significantly less malevolent intention from Vegeta in this case, as with Moro it was a genuine mistake).

But if you're talking about "vibes", again it raises the question of how far can one reasonably go in the quest to 'prove' Moro is a patchwork pastiche of other villains, when one is just talking about a 'feeling'? I, for instance, get a very strong 'Emperor Palpatine' "vibe" when Moro first emerges on Namek - but I'd never try to argue that he's derivative of him.

This is the thing, no one really has to "prove" any more than has been stated in order to come to a conclusion that Moro feels similar to Cell. It really does all come down to a subjective "feeling" that many people share for the reasons given.

[Saimaroimaru]

I don't mind Moro bringing other aspects from past villains. You can only do so much with a big franchise like Dragonball that has a large rogue's gallery before Super comes into existence. I lowkey wished he absorbed one of the Z fighters then absorbed Merus to achieve his pre-planet sized state with Merus dying inside him being the cause of his inflation. The whole devouring an android to transform is screaming Cell saga is bit too much for me, then again, it's better than literally bringing Cell back to life who should stay dead and be happy he temp absorbed Goku in some alt future timeline.

I am glad that this saga at least addressed what is going on with Mr. Buu in regards to the Supreme Kai's inside of him. Grand Supreme Kai is still inside and is now a viable character/transformation for Buu when he needs to fight with more intelligence. The quest remains of if the South Supreme Kai will be awakened in Mr. Buu which gives him access in theory to a more Warrior type mindset/fighting style. This also means that Mr. is in theory three minds in one body with a main mind being a conglomeration of the two Supreme Kai minds being filtered through a Majin's mindset.

Also it speaks to the Grand Supreme Kai in his prime. The god ki Kid Buu perma took from Grand is what is left after he used most of his god ki to seal away moro which tells me that the Kai's, even when super charged, are terrible fighters, Goku beat Moro using a fraction of what Grand had at his prime. It also begs the question if Uub also has the South Supreme Kai's god ki. I can see why Goku wants to train Uub so much, his potential is monstrous and it would be interesting to see a fully trained Uub merged with Mr. Buu would look like.

[Matches Malone]

I found Goku's "God Ki Giant transformation" interesting. This type of transformation might bring more scale into the god-class fights, or one at least hopes so.

I think it was a one time technique, as he was only able to pull it off due to the massive amount of energy he gained from Uub.