"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[MCDaveG]

I wonder how much of that is actual belief that the manga is ending and how much of it is actually a wish for the manga to end.

A lot of it was wishful thinking, and unrealistically at that. There's simply too many plot points to resolve before it ends. We've got Freeza, Planet Sadala, Broly, the 4 universes that didn't take part in the TOP, Goku fully mastering UI, and finally (I think) Beerus getting his rematch with Goku and Vegeta. Once those are resolved, then we can start seriously considering the possibility of it ending.

Don’t forget that GT had lot of unresolved stuff and it ended anyway... I get the idea that Sadala or Namek Book are just tidbits the writers are throwing around to make the worlds seem bigger, than what we actually see. At least, we have seen bits of Sadala in ToP arc and it was basically Earth with Saiyan hermit and Saiyan biker gang.

[Matches Malone]

Don’t forget that GT had lot of unresolved stuff and it ended anyway.

There was ? I know the ending was left open, but that was intentional. I don't remember anything else though.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Don’t forget that GT had lot of unresolved stuff and it ended anyway.

There was ? I know the ending was left open, but that was intentional. I don't remember anything else though.

If anything imo, GT actually worked with a single concept and went over it 100%.

We start on the plotpoint of the war between Saiyans and Tsufurians (we don't speak about the first 16 eps) which leads in the use of the dark star dragon balls, which itself (via the death of Piccolo on earth and Dr. Myuu earlier) opens up the S17 arc, finishing off with the negative energy being released and forming the Shadow Dragons.

If there's something I would have fixed, it would be not including Ultimate Shenron. Unlike Super Shenron who is pretty much Omni-capable, he doesn't serve any purpose other than 'destroying the planet on which the wish was made' and some other bs.

For the most part GT didn't form entirely new arcs. As in, what makes the Golden Freeza arc in Super have anything to do with the Tournament of the Destroyers and what impact did the FT arc had on the next major arc, the ToP?

[Matches Malone]

For the most part GT didn't form entirely new arcs. As in, what makes the Golden Freeza arc in Super have anything to do with the Tournament of the Destroyers and what impact did the FT arc had on the next major arc, the ToP?

This is a major thing GT has over Super, as despite not being perfect, its arcs form one long story. Super on the other hand is more or less separate arcs with very little connected them, so much so that you can actually skip RF and not miss anything.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I feel that Moro arc will become better after a complete re-reading without having to wait 1 month between each release, something that often interferes with the judgment of each chapter individually. At the very least, it will be a more enjoyable and fun read. I would say that reading more calmly even the ToP arc of the manga becomes better and allows you to see some things that at the time went unnoticed

[TheNingen]

For the most part GT didn't form entirely new arcs. As in, what makes the Golden Freeza arc in Super have anything to do with the Tournament of the Destroyers and what impact did the FT arc had on the next major arc, the ToP?

One CAN make the argument that the FT introduced the idea and plot point of getting Zeno a "friend" and that Zamasu's threat was the catalyst for getting that "friend" for Zeno. And while he was mulling it over before hand, it seemed that Zeno's boredom while playing games with his future counterpart was what went about with the start of the ToP.

Maybe not the biggest connection, but we have no real indication that Zeno would have begun the ToP on his own without the other future Zeno. He had the idea from Goku, but no reason to push forward with it. As well as showing future Zeno what a tournament is

[DevilKing99]

I actually think this arc has been pretty decent so far

I look back through this thread and kept seeing people saying they are bored, and this reason for the issue is very simple. it's because the story keeps focusing on characters who completed their arcs in the 80s and early 90s.

At this point, the only characters in U7 that can any sort of development are Broly or Uub with the next-gen, but that means retiring Goku and Vegeta, and this isn't happening and they just got brand new forms in heroes.

All you can do for the other u7 characters is like Piccolo unlocking a Namek god transformation which I would 100% support or Tien locking some new three-eyed human power up.

This issue is just going to keep happening until the story starts focusing on U11 or U6.

The Pride Troopers and Planet Sadala is a legit gold mine of new characters and lore.

[Grimlock]

Oh, I'm pretty sure Majin Buu has more to offer in development too, both in and outside of battles. We merely got a glimpse in that "pre-tournament", but as with most of things, Dragon Ball Super didn't quite delve into it. This saga started in a very interesting way and we (well, me at least) are hoping for it to lead to something great... With Majin Buu.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

I really hope they don't write some stupid nonsense like Moro taking Merus off guard and grabbing him by the neck. The only way I'll believe Moro gets his hands on Merus is if Merus let him(which would be a huge risk and screw everyone over). The only reason Merus would ever do that is if it were to force Beerus to step into the fight seeing as Whis and Beerus shouldn't take the risk of Moro having an angel's abilities. Everyone would get screwed unless Beerus dealt with him.

[The Undying]

Super on the other hand is more or less separate arcs with very little connected them, so much so that you can actually skip RF and not miss anything.

They're separate story arcs, but in the manga, nearly all of them have enough connective tissue that one effectively leads to the next.

Beerus fighting Goku allows Champa to sneak around and collect the Super Dragon Balls, which would later serve as the impetus for the Universe 6 tournament. Champa ends up destroying one of Freeza's old fleets in the process, which prompts Sorbet to resurrect Freeza as a last resort.

Then, in the tournament, Goku vs. Hit is recorded for Godtube. This allows Zamasu to discover Goku and become Black, which throws Trunks' world into ruin and sets the stage for the events in that story arc.

The Tournament of Power wouldn't have happened if Goku didn't meet Zeno, and arguably, Zeno wouldn't have intended to annihilate the other universes if there weren't two Zenos playing chess and dwelling on the subject of too many universes. The latter is only possible because of the Future Trunks arc.

Freeza getting resurrected at the end of the Universe Survival arc allowed the events of Broly to transpire.

I can't think of anything for the current arc, so I guess that would be the exception. One could argue that Boo falling asleep allowed the Galactic Patrol to take him, but Moro had already escaped.

[DevilKing99]

Super on the other hand is more or less separate arcs with very little connected them, so much so that you can actually skip RF and not miss anything.

They're separate story arcs, but in the manga, nearly all of them have enough connective tissue that one effectively leads to the next.

Beerus fighting Goku allows Champa to sneak around and collect the Super Dragon Balls, which would later serve as the impetus for the Universe 6 tournament. Champa ends up destroying one of Freeza's old fleets in the process, which prompts Sorbet to resurrect Freeza as a last resort.

Then, in the tournament, Goku vs. Hit is recorded for Godtube. This allows Zamasu to discover Goku and become Black, which throws Trunks' world into ruin and sets the stage for the events in that story arc.

The Tournament of Power wouldn't have happened if Goku didn't meet Zeno, and arguably, Zeno wouldn't have intended to annihilate the other universes if there weren't two Zenos playing chess and dwelling on the subject of too many universes. The latter is only possible because of the Future Trunks arc.

Freeza getting resurrected at the end of the Universe Survival arc allowed the events of Broly to transpire.

I can't think of anything for the current arc, so I guess that would be the exception. One could argue that Boo falling asleep allowed the Galactic Patrol to take him, but Moro had already escaped.

There is also the fact that the Dragon God Zalama is a thing, Zeno said he wanted to do something like the top again, KIng Of Planet Sadala, Freeza is still around, Broly is around and Beerus rematch.

Zeno and Zalama were also created around the same time to.

As well as the demon who killed Jiren's master and Vegeta and Goku going to Sadala.

The 4 universes that didn't join, One of them has time travelers to.

And the 6 erased universes.

as the only story arcs during Z that had anything to with each other are the Freeza and Saiyan saga.

I have no idea where this narrative comes from that all the arcs in Z were connected when only two were.

The fact it was said Freeza was most powerful being in the universe yet in the very next arc a random crazy dude in the cave who didn't even know Freeza existed created androids more powerful than him and the fact there was zero mention of Gero during OG Dragon Ball is proof.

[batistabus]

I can't think of anything for the current arc, so I guess that would be the exception. One could argue that Boo falling asleep allowed the Galactic Patrol to take him, but Moro had already escaped.

Spoiler:

Knowing more about Dai Kaioshin's backstory, I'm pretty sure this has something to do with the events of the Boo arc.

There is also the fact that the Dragon God Zalama is a thing, Zeno said he wanted to do something like the top again, KIng Of Planet Sadala, Freeza is still around, Broly is around and Beerus rematch.

Zeno and Zalama were also created around the same time to.

As well as the demon who killed Jiren's master and Vegeta and Goku going to Sadala.

The 4 universes that didn't join, One of them has time travelers to.

And the 6 erased universes.

Unfortunately, I don't think we're guaranteed anything on that list. The most likely is a Beerus rematch imo.

If we do get to see more about Sadala, I hope they also tie in something about Universe 6's restored Earth...

[DiscountDabi]

I can't think of anything for the current arc, so I guess that would be the exception. One could argue that Boo falling asleep allowed the Galactic Patrol to take him, but Moro had already escaped.

Spoiler:

Knowing more about Dai Kaioshin's backstory, I'm pretty sure this has something to do with the events of the Boo arc.

I look at this and I realize that it is very much so implied that Moro got his magic back because Kid Buu died. It lines up with the “I got my magic back a few years ago” thing, It made thematic sense at the time since Majin Buu was still a big part of the story at the time, and it just doesn’t really have any holes in it.

[BWri]

Even as a major Human fan I think the story is suffering from just focusing on U7, because there is pretty much nothing to develop in U7 besides my man Tien unlocking some three-eyed human power-up or Uub and the next and that's pretty much it. Even with the next-gen heroes of Earth, you would run into the same problem as we would get no world building because we would still be stuck on Earth.

I've been flirting with this idea that Tien is the descendant of an ancient and long gone war waging 3-eyed, 4-armed race of former gods (similar to popular Hindu gods) and that his "war god" blood has been watered down with human blood. I saw his delving into a combination of strenuous and life-threatening techniques in his training such as KK and Shin Kikoho as unlocking this ancient potential in him through near death experiences.

At least I saw things that way before the ToP. Now I've just given up on him. Gotta rewatch DB for those good ol' glory days. I even thought he would come up with some crazy new combination for all his abilities such as a multiform that reduces power reduction and using Kaioken to reduce that power loss even further. But .... no! The guy who trained with Kaio the longest doesn't deserve nice things.

[batistabus]

Alternate/back cover of Vol. 13:

Spoiler:

Featured characters include Cranberry, Irico, Galactic Patrol Prisoners, Galactic Patrol, and Galactic Patrol Prison guards.

I've been flirting with this idea that Tien is the descendant of an ancient and long gone war waging 3-eyed, 4-armed race of former gods (similar to popular Hindu gods) and that his "war god" blood has been watered down with human blood. I saw his delving into a combination of strenuous and life-threatening techniques in his training such as KK and Shin Kikoho as unlocking this ancient potential in him through near death experiences.

At least I saw things that way before the ToP. Now I've just given up on him. Gotta rewatch DB for those good ol' glory days. I even thought he would come up with some crazy new combination for all his abilities such as a multiform that reduces power reduction and using Kaioken to reduce that power loss even further. But .... no! The guy who trained with Kaio the longest doesn't deserve nice things.

Daizenshuu 4 refers to Tenshinhan as a descendant of a group of aliens called the Three-Eyed Clan (三つ目人). So your idea has some basis in official material.

In the first American Shonen Jump issue, Toriyama answered a question about Ten's 3rd eye:

In certain parts of Asia, beings with a third eye on their forehead are thought to be godlike and are said to possess the power of true seeing. It seems that Tenshinhan, who was raised by the evil Tsuru-Sen'nin [Crane Hermit], lost the ability to use the myriad powers of his third eye for good purposes.

If Tenshinhan hasn't regained the ability to use these repressed powers at this point, I don't think there's anything he could do to get them back. Also, Toriyama's statements should always be taken with a grain of salt until they actually manifest themselves in the series.

I love Tenshinhan, but at this point, a gag fight is about as best as we can expect from him. I'm fine with that.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Why do I have the strangest feeling that the writers will have Moro grab Merus's neck at some point? Because if Merus doesn't break the code, him being here is going to be a bit of problem cause Moro might get curious and wonder 'Hm, weird guy, wonder if he's hiding something' and try to grab him.

I feel like Whis let Merus slip in under the pretense of 'Don't get me screwed over by Father and keep in line with our angel laws.' Because Merus dying is on Whis, so he'll be in hot water if Merus uses his full power. The last thing Whis needs is Merus dying and having the full blown ire of the Grand Priest on him. As long as Merus sticks to using his gun(I feel like Merus has been doing the ki bullet thing for a while, which is why it likely worked on Goku and Vegeta, so if he didn't get in trouble for that he's fine with Moro).

I feel if Merus keeps himself in line but for whatever reason gets grabbed(most likely voluntarily because he's AN ANGEL for gods sake and do I need to explain why one of the most OP races in DB should be able to dodge someone?) The Z fighters are screwed and only Beerus would have the legal right to kill Moro.

I'm still holding hope Beerus gets involved. If Merus is on Earth, Beerus is likely there as well or close by with Whis, if all else fails Beerus should rise up and take a stand if Moro can't be killed. Even if Beerus didn't care about the Z fighters(despite them being the only reason he isn't erased due to the TOP, Moro is an obvious threat to his position as a destroyer and the chance of Moro having angel powers if he got his hands on Merus is a risk for both Whis and Beerus because of what type of powers angels have.)

The risk is too great for someone like that to live and given Moro's drained most of universe 7, who knows what he'll do if he wins, he'll drain everything of life and Universe 7 will be a lifeless wasteland. The last thing we need is Moro finding a way to other universes, else Beerus's problem will become the other universe's problem.

[BWri]

In certain parts of Asia, beings with a third eye on their forehead are thought to be godlike and are said to possess the power of true seeing. It seems that Tenshinhan, who was raised by the evil Tsuru-Sen'nin [Crane Hermit], lost the ability to use the myriad powers of his third eye for good purposes.

If Tenshinhan hasn't regained the ability to use these repressed powers at this point, I don't think there's anything he could do to get them back. Also, Toriyama's statements should always be taken with a grain of salt until they actually manifest themselves in the series.

Yeah, he's been good for a lot longer than Piccolo and Vegeta, so I imagine there's more to it, unless he needs a completely pure heart or something. Despite being in the story for so long Tien along with Yamcha remain complete enigmas. There's plenty of storytelling potential for both characters, especially Tien with his heritage.

I love Tenshinhan, but at this point, a gag fight is about as best as we can expect from him. I'm fine with that.

As long as he gets to occasionally do something and isn't embarrassed during or right after, I'm fine with it. Otherwise, a respectful sendoff would be nice.

[LoganForkHands73]

Ok so here's a question: what's the deal with Toyotaro drawing characters with hunchbacks so often?

[MCDaveG]

Ok so here's a question: what's the deal with Toyotaro drawing characters with hunchbacks so often?

What do you mean? Can you point out some examples? I know that Moro is kind leaned forward when in his goat original form,
but outside of that, I have no idea.

[Locust]

Ok so here's a question: what's the deal with Toyotaro drawing characters with hunchbacks so often?

A lot of mangaka tend to develop visual tropes (if that's the right word?) they're fond of, and subconsciously repeat them in their characters
(I did this myself for a while until I realised "oh I sure create a lot of characters that are olive skinned, have scars and upwards turned eyes....")

I don't think there's anything too deep going on here