"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:33 pm

HeroR wrote:
Miracles wrote:
HeroR wrote:
A story needs more than ‘you follow them for a long time’ to make people care. Otherwise you get Designated Hero. So no, I really don’t care about U7 since Toyo just assumes that I should, which is horrible writing.
The characters are already developed. These are the same characters that we've cared about all along and all of a sudden you guys don't care. Very peculiar.
One) you shouldn’t just assumed everyone watched Dragon Ball or Dragon Ball Z since Super brought in many new fans who are not emotionally invested. Two) it’s bad writing not to give any emotional development or even scenes because you’re taking advantage of the reader’s nostalgia.
We see emotional scenes and development for new viewers. We see Freeza's cunning and ruthlessness and hate for Saiyans, we see Goku's selfish desire for power when he objects to join Hit against Jiren, We see Kale's motivations, Obuni's speech, etc. There are always snippets of these characters inner selves and the majority of the people watching this most likely already know this about these characters from DB. The point is YOU yourself, a DB viewer, saying there is no emotional investment is flat out wrong.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:33 pm

HeroR wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Compared to the epic arcs of Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, it was relatively short. And those fights you named as awesome I personally found meh. Although, it better than most of Toyo gave us outside the of god royal. Which is better than the entire TOP so far despite it being two chapters.

That’s factually incorrect. We had Gohan training to defend his family and Piccolo telling him that’s the wrong mindset. We had 17 and 18 have a heart-to-heart in the middle of the tourument about why they wanted the Super Dragon Balls. Roshi willing to give his life to ensure U7 won. 18 saving 17 since he was stronger than her and their best chance to survive. Vegeta given the last of his energy to Goku and putting his trust in him. All these moments, whether you think they were well done or not, were built to make us care about U7 beyond ‘we followed them for a long time’. Especially since there are new fans who haven’t read Dragon Ball for decades and wouldn’t have that emotional investment. Even Toriyama got this, which is why we had character moments to the last manga page instead of him going ‘you know these characters’.
I guess that's fair, but Toriyama eventually stopped stressing the fact that people were dying. The Cell arc ended with, "Btw, everyone is alive again." The real reason I care about the tournament is because I want to see Ultra Instinct. Everything else is secondary.
Not completely true, since Buu killing people were treated as a big deal with Bulma tearing the cast a new one about wishing Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo back after Buu killed them when they were trapped in Hypobolic Time Chamber.
Miracles wrote:
HeroR wrote:
A story needs more than ‘you follow them for a long time’ to make people care. Otherwise you get Designated Hero. So no, I really don’t care about U7 since Toyo just assumes that I should, which is horrible writing.
The characters are already developed. These are the same characters that we've cared about all along and all of a sudden you guys don't care. Very peculiar.
One) you shouldn’t just assumed everyone watched Dragon Ball or Dragon Ball Z since Super brought in many new fans who are not emotionally invested. Two) it’s bad writing not to give any emotional development or even scenes because you’re taking advantage of the reader’s nostalgia.
It's treated as a big deal when there is an active murderous psychopath. There isn't really a villain in this arc, so there isn't a reason to constantly point out the looming danger. They had a page that showed everyone on the u6 team unsettled after seeing the first universe erased, but as it stands, u7 has the most members left, so it's much to soon to have any intense character moments.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:43 pm

Bergamo wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Bergamo wrote: I guess that's fair, but Toriyama eventually stopped stressing the fact that people were dying. The Cell arc ended with, "Btw, everyone is alive again." The real reason I care about the tournament is because I want to see Ultra Instinct. Everything else is secondary.
Not completely true, since Buu killing people were treated as a big deal with Bulma tearing the cast a new one about wishing Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo back after Buu killed them when they were trapped in Hypobolic Time Chamber.
Miracles wrote: The characters are already developed. These are the same characters that we've cared about all along and all of a sudden you guys don't care. Very peculiar.
One) you shouldn’t just assumed everyone watched Dragon Ball or Dragon Ball Z since Super brought in many new fans who are not emotionally invested. Two) it’s bad writing not to give any emotional development or even scenes because you’re taking advantage of the reader’s nostalgia.
It's treated as a big deal when there is an active murderous psychopath. There isn't really a villain in this arc, so there isn't a reason to constantly point out the looming danger. They had a page that showed everyone on the u6 team unsettled after seeing the first universe erased, but as it stands, u7 has the most members left, so it's much to soon to have any intense character moments.
I never said they have to constantly point out the danger. Not even the anime did that. What I'm saying is is that the manga has done nothing to make us care who the winning is. Everything just feels like going through the motions. We need more than some unsettled scenes. Like, sorry to used the anime again, but when Cali and Kale were knocked out and only the Namekians were left, we saw U6 go into panic mode and it remained until they were erased. U6 was also started to unhinged after Hit got knocked out.
Miracles wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Miracles wrote: The characters are already developed. These are the same characters that we've cared about all along and all of a sudden you guys don't care. Very peculiar.
One) you shouldn’t just assumed everyone watched Dragon Ball or Dragon Ball Z since Super brought in many new fans who are not emotionally invested. Two) it’s bad writing not to give any emotional development or even scenes because you’re taking advantage of the reader’s nostalgia.
We see emotional scenes and development for new viewers. We see Freeza's cunning and ruthlessness and hate for Saiyans, we see Goku's selfish desire for power when he objects to join Hit against Jiren, We see Kale's motivations, Obuni's speech, etc. There are always snippets of these characters inner selves and the majority of the people watching this most likely already know this about these characters from DB. The point is YOU yourself, a DB viewer, saying there is no emotional investment is flat out wrong.

That's not really emotional development so much as showing Freeza's character, the same with Goku and Hit (which is honestly a really stupid scene since Goku never had a problem teaming up in the original manga when the odds called for it).

There is really none, especially when Toyo goes on to knocked out four universes in one chapter with no breathing room. And again, it's not good writing to just assumed the reader knows these characters because you're banking on the nostalgia on those who grew up with Dragon Ball.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:52 pm

HeroR wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Not completely true, since Buu killing people were treated as a big deal with Bulma tearing the cast a new one about wishing Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo back after Buu killed them when they were trapped in Hypobolic Time Chamber.



One) you shouldn’t just assumed everyone watched Dragon Ball or Dragon Ball Z since Super brought in many new fans who are not emotionally invested. Two) it’s bad writing not to give any emotional development or even scenes because you’re taking advantage of the reader’s nostalgia.
It's treated as a big deal when there is an active murderous psychopath. There isn't really a villain in this arc, so there isn't a reason to constantly point out the looming danger. They had a page that showed everyone on the u6 team unsettled after seeing the first universe erased, but as it stands, u7 has the most members left, so it's much to soon to have any intense character moments.
I never said they have to constantly point out the danger. Not even the anime did that. What I'm saying is is that the manga has done nothing to make us care who the winning is. Everything just feels like going through the motions. We need more than some unsettled scenes. Like, sorry to used the anime again, but when Cali and Kale were knocked out and only the Namekians were left, we saw U6 go into panic mode and it remained until they were erased. U6 was also started to unhinged after Hit got knocked out.
Miracles wrote:
HeroR wrote:
One) you shouldn’t just assumed everyone watched Dragon Ball or Dragon Ball Z since Super brought in many new fans who are not emotionally invested. Two) it’s bad writing not to give any emotional development or even scenes because you’re taking advantage of the reader’s nostalgia.
We see emotional scenes and development for new viewers. We see Freeza's cunning and ruthlessness and hate for Saiyans, we see Goku's selfish desire for power when he objects to join Hit against Jiren, We see Kale's motivations, Obuni's speech, etc. There are always snippets of these characters inner selves and the majority of the people watching this most likely already know this about these characters from DB. The point is YOU yourself, a DB viewer, saying there is no emotional investment is flat out wrong.

That's not really emotional development so much as showing Freeza's character, the same with Goku and Hit (which is honestly a really stupid scene since Goku never had a problem teaming up in the original manga when the odds called for it).

There is really none, especially when Toyo goes on to knocked out four universes in one chapter with no breathing room. And again, it's not good writing to just assumed the reader knows these characters because you're banking on the nostalgia on those who grew up with Dragon Ball.
I don't know if this fits with what you're talking about, but Champa seems hysterical when Hit gets knocked out and when Kale wrecks his team, and he says that Kefla is his team's only hope at winning. There's also a really nice scene with Goku hanging off the edge of the arena. Goku says, "My name is Son Goku!" and then he has a look of terror on his face as Jiren shatters his pride and nearly knocks him off the arena.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sun Jul 29, 2018 6:54 pm

HeroR wrote:That's not really emotional development so much as showing Freeza's character, the same with Goku and Hit (which is honestly a really stupid scene since Goku never had a problem teaming up in the original manga when the odds called for it).

There is really none, especially when Toyo goes on to knocked out four universes in one chapter with no breathing room. And again, it's not good writing to just assumed the reader knows these characters because you're banking on the nostalgia on those who grew up with Dragon Ball.
No, new viewers been getting in tuned with the characters since BOG. Those scenes in the TOP allow the audience to get connected with the characters even more. It is an emotional investment. Toyo wasting Universes in quick succession shows the fierce dynamism of what an actually royale is suppose to be.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Omniboy » Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:05 pm

HeroR wrote:
Omniboy wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote:
Honestly this is how I felt about the TOP as a whole.

That's what I'm thinking. The anime is not really all that different to the manga in that regard.
I can’t really agreed with that

I took it back.
I should retract my statement in saying that both mediums are nothing but fighting. They do have aspects that to try lend to themselves to being more than just that. Whether or not they land for me is up for debate.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by 1345521 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:25 pm

PFM18 wrote:
1345521 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:In the manga continuity it cannot be deduced that Jiren>Beerus yet because in this continuity Beerus>Belmod so Whis saying that Jiren>Belmod doesn't automatically mean that he's stronger than Beerus. And there's no implications of it like the 109/110 episodes and the statement that 3rd UI Omen~Beerus. I'm sure it will be made clear later but as of now it is unclear whether Beerus or Jiren are stronger in the manga.
I know right, it's also just amazing how fodder GoD (in sntrength) like belmod is stronger then berrus in the anime. While in the manga. Berrus is nothing short of an absloute BEAST.
Yeah it's blatant fan service and doesn't contribute to the story in any way. And it diminishes the build up of Jiren unlike in the anime.
:evil: ...
At least Jiren in the manga has a persoanility and is giving more expostion then his garbage anime counterpart. Toyotaro made berrus and Jiren better in the manga...Hm....I wonder what conclcusions we can make :think: ....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Pokesamus217 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:45 pm

1345521 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
1345521 wrote: I know right, it's also just amazing how fodder GoD (in sntrength) like belmod is stronger then berrus in the anime. While in the manga. Berrus is nothing short of an absloute BEAST.
Yeah it's blatant fan service and doesn't contribute to the story in any way. And it diminishes the build up of Jiren unlike in the anime.
:evil: ...
At least Jiren in the manga has a persoanility and is giving more expostion then his garbage anime counterpart. Toyotaro made berrus and Jiren better in the manga...Hm....I wonder what conclcusions we can make :think: ....
He started doing that, then he decided to make Jiren a carbon copy of his anime counterpart, which causes all of his actions in the manga to make no god damn sense.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:48 pm

Pokesamus217 wrote:
1345521 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Yeah it's blatant fan service and doesn't contribute to the story in any way. And it diminishes the build up of Jiren unlike in the anime.
:evil: ...
At least Jiren in the manga has a persoanility and is giving more expostion then his garbage anime counterpart. Toyotaro made berrus and Jiren better in the manga...Hm....I wonder what conclcusions we can make :think: ....
He started doing that, then he decided to make Jiren a carbon copy of his anime counterpart, which causes all of his actions in the manga to make no god damn sense.
I personally believe that manga Jiren and anime Jiren have always been the same character, but what actions don't make sense?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by 1345521 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:56 pm

Pokesamus217 wrote:
1345521 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Yeah it's blatant fan service and doesn't contribute to the story in any way. And it diminishes the build up of Jiren unlike in the anime.
:evil: ...
At least Jiren in the manga has a persoanility and is giving more expostion then his garbage anime counterpart. Toyotaro made berrus and Jiren better in the manga...Hm....I wonder what conclcusions we can make :think: ....
He started doing that, then he decided to make Jiren a carbon copy of his anime counterpart, which causes all of his actions in the manga to make no god damn sense.
How in the world is he an carbon copy. Mnaga Jiren is shown in dialouge to be more smarter..at least is more sophsticated then Jiren in the anime who barley can speak, or speak one-liner sentences like he's above speech speech. Jiren in the manga actaully trust his teamates and talks to them. Jiren is an hero, while anime is..IDK what what he is. Some journey-man looking dude....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Pokesamus217 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:10 pm

Bergamo wrote:
Pokesamus217 wrote:
1345521 wrote: :evil: ...
At least Jiren in the manga has a persoanility and is giving more expostion then his garbage anime counterpart. Toyotaro made berrus and Jiren better in the manga...Hm....I wonder what conclcusions we can make :think: ....
He started doing that, then he decided to make Jiren a carbon copy of his anime counterpart, which causes all of his actions in the manga to make no god damn sense.
I personally believe that manga Jiren and anime Jiren have always been the same character, but what actions don't make sense?
In the manga Jiren makes it clear that he doesn’t want to be active in the tournament due to him not wanting to feel that the other universes dying is his fault, which really doesn’t work with Jiren activly trying to eliminate people early on, and him refusing to help his team when they’re in danger.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:18 pm

Pokesamus217 wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
Pokesamus217 wrote: He started doing that, then he decided to make Jiren a carbon copy of his anime counterpart, which causes all of his actions in the manga to make no god damn sense.
I personally believe that manga Jiren and anime Jiren have always been the same character, but what actions don't make sense?
In the manga Jiren makes it clear that he doesn’t want to be active in the tournament due to him not wanting to feel that the other universes dying is his fault, which really doesn’t work with Jiren activly trying to eliminate people early on, and him refusing to help his team when they’re in danger.
Jiren wasn't really shown to be actively trying to eliminate large amounts of people. If he was, then they would have all been defeated. Jiren has only been shown explicitly trying to eliminate 2 people, and they were both actively attacking him. Jiren obviously compromised his morals a little bit, as he is obviously not going to try to eliminate no fighters.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by 1345521 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:21 pm

Pokesamus217 wrote:
Bergamo wrote:
Pokesamus217 wrote: He started doing that, then he decided to make Jiren a carbon copy of his anime counterpart, which causes all of his actions in the manga to make no god damn sense.
I personally believe that manga Jiren and anime Jiren have always been the same character, but what actions don't make sense?
In the manga Jiren makes it clear that he doesn’t want to be active in the tournament due to him not wanting to feel that the other universes dying is his fault, which really doesn’t work with Jiren activly trying to eliminate people early on, and him refusing to help his team when they’re in danger.
When did Jiren say that in the manga, and even then that make sense and is well within his character since he really hesitated. But then of not, it also makes sense because he'll do anything to get that wish-even to against his morals.

He didn't go to help his teamates because um..he has faith his teamates will get it done. Hence why he said it is "unessecary". He just saw his team took out a monster who soloed 4 universes, now he's confident they can take out kefla. It's why he was shocked kefla pushed then back to him. Jiren in the manga is very differnt then anime jiren it's not even funny.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by 1345521 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:26 pm

Bergamo wrote:
Pokesamus217 wrote:
Bergamo wrote: I personally believe that manga Jiren and anime Jiren have always been the same character, but what actions don't make sense?
In the manga Jiren makes it clear that he doesn’t want to be active in the tournament due to him not wanting to feel that the other universes dying is his fault, which really doesn’t work with Jiren activly trying to eliminate people early on, and him refusing to help his team when they’re in danger.
Jiren wasn't really shown to be actively trying to eliminate large amounts of people. If he was, then they would have all been defeated. Jiren has only been shown explicitly trying to eliminate 2 people, and they were both actively attacking him. Jiren obviously compromised his morals a little bit, as he is obviously not going to try to eliminate no fighters.
Exactly. Jiren could have easily done a hulk smash and the force wave of that would have eliminated so many fighters in the first 5 seconds. But he went very easy so he didn't have to take on the gult of universal erasure, plus he has very good teamates, one being a GoD candidate so why bother? Save your energy for the real threats. Goku has been doing the same thing, he's just been like standing around the arena barley fighting anyone except jiren. I love how manga goku is trying to win instead of having just a jolly time, one reason I love manga goku way more then his anime counterpart.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:31 pm

Image
Image
I’m still thinking about jirens unnecessary line ... popular interpretation is that he doesn’t care about his teammates, at my first reading i understood as ... too late ..... Jiren can see the future :crazy:
But anyways , people freaked out in the comments saying that Jiren doesn’t care , and nobody cared about goku denying help to hit in order to get rid of the main enemy in this tournament , I’m just saying ....
I’m not sure about the intention of those panels that I attach .. goku saying go help your teammates in a battle royale ? Doesn’t he die to fight Jiren a.s.a.p ?
Toyo have a big task with Jiren from now on let’s see how he’ll do it .
For the next chapter will be great not to put the focus in just one battle ... there’s 3 battles on the way , gohan-kefla , topo-vegeta, goku-Jiren , and let’s see how the rest of them pair ...
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Omniboy » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:35 pm

Pokesamus217 wrote: In the manga Jiren makes it clear that he doesn’t want to be active in the tournament due to him not wanting to feel that the other universes dying is his fault, which really doesn’t work with Jiren activly trying to eliminate people early on, and him refusing to help his team when they’re in danger.

But Jiren agrees to fight after he learns that his wish can be granted. It was only before Belmond promised Jiren a wish if he wins the tournament, that he protested to fighting in the tournament and eliminating other people.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:48 pm

Jiren is a flawed hero with a strong commitment to justice, admirable principles on the surface and questionable values that begin to fall apart under closer scrutiny, especially when presented with circumstances that would tempt him to abandon his resolve. This is literally explained and foreshadowed in his very own introductory chapter.

The problem with the anime is that it never did a good job of portraying the "on the surface" part, which doesn't make him a convincing Pride Trooper at all. Here, all aspects of his character are clearly presented to the reader from the start with an intelligible picture in mind.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:07 pm

You know the thing I like about this arc in the manga is that truly feels like a time limited Battle Royale, in the anime it was ridiculous that they pretented to convice the audience that the final battle (3 episodes) lasted 3 minutes.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:21 pm

I don't know if Toyotaro will do Frieza/17/Goku vs Jiren. The last arc ended with Trunks defeating Merged Zamas, but in the manga he was defeated by Goku, so that may happen again.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:51 pm

Kanassa wrote:Something as simple as 18 showing Ribrianne how shallow her outlook on love was or Goku partially training Caulifla as they fought or Piccolo having a crisis of self-confidence or the universes having a moment to react to their total annihilation give emotional weight to a fight.
There is no "emotional weight" when characters have to go distinctly out of character for these moments to work. 18, the very cold, callous person who doesn't let her emotions out talking about love? Piccolo, the most resolute, no-nonsense member of the cast having his self-confidence shaken? Goku training someone in the middle of a tournament with these stakes?

No, I'm not going to sit here and nitpick your choice of example. Yes, I have no doubt that these moments pulled on the heartstrings—that's what they're designed to do. However, I don't find these things compelling when they're being delivered by characters who have no business doing so. It's about as effective as Pee Wee Herman delivering an anti-drug PSA.
I should view Goku fighting Jiren as more than 'The protag punches a rather antagonistic wall', there's little dynamic or reason to be invested.
But... that's not Dragonball. Remember the first Tenkaichi Budokai? The whole point of that Goku vs "Jackie Chun" was so Goku would learn that there are stronger people out there. That's been a consistent theme throughout the series. I can't speak to what Jiren's relationship with Goku will be, given that the arc is still very much underway, but I wouldn't be disappointed if that central theme of Dragonball was all there was to this fight.
That's why the episode with Roshi managed to make people go 'Oh shit' even though every single one of them knew there was no way in hell Roshi was dying.
I don't care about pointless melodrama though. I had quit the anime long before Roshi got his spotlight episodes, but I know what happens in them. I'm not impressed nor am I enthused. The leaps in logic and power level consistency (and thus, the erasure of tension) necessary for those moments to work make me not enjoy them on any level.
The Manga's action means nothing because it has very little in it, the enemies are no more than just roadblocks in the story when they should feel like more.
In the manga, Gowasu believed in Zamas so much that he approached him and begged him to change his ways, getting impaled through the stomach for it. In the manga, he sees his failings as a teacher and acts to fix those errors. In the anime, he sits in the background drinking tea and godtubing.

That's just one example where I feel the manga takes the characters and presents them in a logical, believable and coherent manner.
The anime, even in it's worse moments, remembered that action is meaningless if it doesn't make efforts to make you give a shit.


Is that why we got almost a year of filler fights in the tournament of power with characters whose very designs alone tell us not to care? It's all just bloated nonsense of (often contradictory) shallow moments.
If the characters aren't given moments to be characters, the line making you care about them in battle becomes thin. The conflict of the Trunks arc becomes hard to give a shit about when the character barely seem to treat it with any seriousness (Other than 'He's strong!') with Trunks's emotional moments taking place off screen.
Did you miss the entire chapter where Trunks recounted how he protected his time from Buu and the losses incurred? Did you miss him explaining to Vegeta how his mother worried about him? Or when he kissed Mai? How about when Zamas had to face the fact that he wasn't better than the mortals despite being a god? What about all the gods of destruction actually having characters this time around instead of existing just to give exposition?

Seems to me like you're willfully ignoring all of these character milestones.
Yes, the manga is more consistent in it's characters, because it does so little with them that it's pretty damn hard to mess it up.
No, let me tell you why the manga is more consistent. It's because there's 2 people writing it: Toriyama and Toyotaro. The anime, at any given time, has dozens of people rotating in and out throwing their own ideas, interpretations and sensibilities into the melting pot. That's why the anime is so wildly inconsistent, even on an episode to episode basis.

The manga, on the other hand, is consistently and coherently-written. It has nothing to do with the manga not doing anything with the characters; we've seen that it's actually quite the opposite. The manga made Kibito of all people play a significant role in the Zamas arc, and gave (Future) Kaioshin a chance to shine by sacrificing himself for the greater good. The manga doesn't give fluff moments to characters; it enhances them.
The Creatives who inspire me: Akira Toriyama, George Lucas, Chris Nolan, J. R. R. Tolkien and Zack Snyder


http://i.imgur.com/XAnj7Yi.jpg

You saw Batman v Superman? Is it the Ultimate Edition? No? Then you haven't seen Batman v Superman. Also, the Snyder Cut is the greatest, non-deconstructionist ensemble comic book film ever made.

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