"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:56 pm

Krillin1994 wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:28 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:58 pm
Tai Lung wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:49 pm I don't know why people take a comic gag seriously ... the same thing happened with yurin in the anime
A bunch of men saying "lol isn't the sexual harassment of women funny?" Is...not funny. Men making light of the horrors they put us through in real life is not funny. It's the abuser mocking the trauma of their victim, only now through the lens of our corrupt, male-controlled society.
Is it not reductive to equate finding things amusing on on fictional mediums means you find those things amusing in real life?

Is it not that same logic that sees those stuffy old politicians say violence in games and film breeds violent individuals.

I think obviously entertainment can be effective at sending messages and addressing issues, raising awareness for positive change.

But equally there’s no obligation of them to do so - the wider issues at large are things that need to be addressed through education of people in their younger years. It’s clear so many negative attitudes are learned behaviours, I.e racism

People need to have an awareness that just because they see something in entertainment doesn’t mean it’s to be replicated in real life.

A role of friends/family/peers/co-workers to call out friends on poor behaviour and let them know when things aren’t acceptable. Parents in particular should certainly make children aware in those formative years.

For example if I say I enjoy the role Leonardo Di Caprio played as a plantation owner in Django Unchained that doesn’t mean I condone slavery. Heck Smug Leo is one of the most popular memes. So is that problematic if people still enjoy it/find it funny despite all the racism that goes on in the world still?

Hopefully that’s not come off in a condescending way or anything, I made a post on one of the last pages touching on what I perceive the issues to be with that Zuno scene. But again I’m aware it’s not my place to decide what offends people, especially when I’m not marginalised a victim of injustice in this world as a cis white male.

I’m happy to listen to other’s opinions on this and have healthy discussion, always aware that there is always more I can learn on issues.
On mobile, will be terse:

Dragon Ball and JUMP Comics (both as a publishing arm and as a workplace) have very few roles for women and one of those most consistent roles is a misogynist role written and drawn by men. Some cool episodes for Caulifla, Kale and Ribrianne doesn't forgive the damage society, the publication and the creative staff have done in the past, present or future.

Your comparison to the demonization of other media for their general purpose violence ignores the specifics. I don't see a credible comparison between general fantasy (or even hyper-violence ala Mortal Kombat) violence and easily replicable attitudes toward women. After all, if I'm to replace the broad subject of women to, say, trans women we still see these large media influences in film and television that has made trans people--in particular trans women--fearful of transitioning or coming out for years. The documentary Disclosure as well as the several good YouTube videos like the Renegade Cut and even the Lindsay Ellis video on media portrayals of trans people do a great job of exploring this.

Anyway, I'm getting away from my original point. Media is how we normalize and spread ideas. Why do you think the DoD spends so much money on and lends so many resources to Hollywood films? It's because film and television are effective forms of propaganda. Similarly, we see women in very few types of roles on screen and behind screen in our media.

Well, this was supposed to be terse. I'll see about linking some articles on media representation another time.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:57 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:58 pm
Tai Lung wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:49 pm I don't know why people take a comic gag seriously ... the same thing happened with yurin in the anime
A bunch of men saying "lol isn't the sexual harassment of women funny?" Is...not funny. Men making light of the horrors they put us through in real life is not funny. It's the abuser mocking the trauma of their victim, only now through the lens of our corrupt, male-controlled society.
do you consider pepe le pew a sexual harasser? ...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:05 pm

About the last two chapters: Interesting never thought Dragon Ball would put out something like the Shinigami Eyes deal (skill/power in trade of your life span), but still expecting this to be undone cuz ya know Toyotaro is pretty bad trying to develop important plot points. Also nice little spotlight for Chichi it always good to see more of her character than a tiger mom like Toei always loved to present.
FortuneSSJ wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:22 pm I like the competition between Beerus and Whis. Unfortunately for Vegeta's/Beerus' team, Goku has the main character plot armor on his side.
I love how Vegeta fans are silly with these little arguments. I mean is not like Toriyama has any fault of you guys being delusional with one day Vegeta surpassing Goku to the point of making him (the main character, the only reason this show exists) irrelevant.

Also how that would happen anyway? Goku is being trained by Whis who is several times stronger than Beerus, geez at least try to find something convincing to have your dreams to make sense.
GodVegetto91 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:58 pmIt just sucks that the Dragon Ball Super Manga releases only ONCE A MONTH. This is the cause of all this suffering. The japanese dragon ball authorities should know that the fanbase of Dragon Ball is (largely) made up of people with patience issues, that need their weekly dose of dragon ball to fight off the depression. And yet they choose to release it only once a month anyway. It’s like they’re giving a big “fuck you!” to the fans who need it the most. And DBS Hype is only making it worse by intentionally leaking as little as possible, and he has been reducing it every month with small steps along the way. And the fact that the Manga only releases (once a month!) creates the situation where people are becoming restless, frustrated, and depressed when spoilers are taking a little longer than usual. (Thank Toyotaro’s monthly release schedule for that!) I have been saying this for MONTHS now, and sadly, these past few months it’s gotten worse and worse, to the point where I literally said: “This can’t go on any longer! Something HAS to happen! This situation is just WRONG.”

It sucks to be a Dragon Ball fan these days.
I've never read so much nonsense in this thread. If you think it sucks to be a DB fan these days then you would probably kill yourself due to the drought of content we had to go through for almost two decades (GT's end until BoG was announced). Also there's no reason for Super to be a weekly manga as unlike the anime it wasn't presented as the flagship of the series from the start. It is published on V-Jump primarily known for video games and promotional products.
Trouser wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:32 amIt irks me that Toyo always draw Goku like he's a retard. Vegeta is fine, but there's always something not right with Goku...
It irks me too, also how about him to actually try drawing Goku not like a teenager? The guy is almost on his 60's and yet Toyotaro draws him like he's a teenager. And before someone comes up with the dumb Saiyan slow aging excuse, that was how Goku was draw by Toriyama in the Boo arc (note the wrinkle on the last panel by the left):

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:19 pm

Tai Lung wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:57 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:58 pm
Tai Lung wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:49 pm I don't know why people take a comic gag seriously ... the same thing happened with yurin in the anime
A bunch of men saying "lol isn't the sexual harassment of women funny?" Is...not funny. Men making light of the horrors they put us through in real life is not funny. It's the abuser mocking the trauma of their victim, only now through the lens of our corrupt, male-controlled society.
do you consider pepe le pew a sexual harasser? ...
I haven't seen a Pepe Le Pew cartoon in twenty-five years so I wouldn't know anything about the character or the audience.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:27 pm

DiscountDabi wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:04 pm Ok, so at first with the Destruction Earring thing I was ready to write it off as another Dumb Toyotaro Decision and leave it at that.

Until it occurred to me that even though not all Gods of Destruction have the Earring, its never shown that any of those Gods who don’t have the Earring can’t use Hakai.

As long as you stick to Toyotaro’s Manga Continuity, it makes sense. So before the TOP, we see Beerus defeat Vegeta and say “You could probably be a God of Destruction in another Universe”

Vegeta at the time didn’t know Hakai, yet could be a God of Destruction in another universe. He could be just referring to his raw strength, but Its still something to consider. And its important to remember that the only God we see use Hakai without the earring is in the anime with Sidra.

We then see the Zen-Exhibition with The G.O.D’s fighting each other. If you notice, the one’s who don’t have the earring fought using their fists or other weapons, while the one’s who did have an earring use blasts a bunch. Again Implying that those Gods can’t use Hakai.

Then you have Toppo. In the Anime they gave him powers of destruction, but no such thing happens in the Manga despite the fact that he was still being trained to be a God of Destruction.

When It comes down to it, this detail with the earring when looking back on the past just kinda adds a bit of flavor to the Gods with the knowledge that not all of them actually can use Hakai.
Beerus said the earring was a symbol of those who can use Hakai, but that doesn't mean that it is a mandatory accessory. Some GoDs use it and others don't, but I'm pretty sure they can all use Hakai (it wouldn't make sense for them to be Gods of Destruction and not be able to use the signature technique of that position). I interpret this as just an interesting bit of information.

Toppo was a candidate for the GoD position, but he was still in training, we don't know if he had already learned Hakai (although he never had the opportunity to use it anyway since he was not allowed to kill in the tournament)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:49 pm

Kinokima wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:23 am
GodVegetto91 wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:48 am
GalaxyBusterBuu wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:41 am You think the Heeters are gonna wish for Gas to be the strongest in the universe at the expense of his life-span so that he can fight Granolah? I mean, I don't see how he could catch up at his current level, he'll need a massive boost and the old man isn't dead yet so they can still use the balls once they get them.
Gas likely has FAR more potential than Granolah naturally. And to the other guy who replied to you, we don’t know the Heeters’ lifespans, so there’s literally no way we can comment on that right now. So the Dragon might be able to make him “the strongest” in the universe JUST by unlocking his latent potential. (Without reducing his lifespan.)
I think Gas has the potential to be much stronger than Granolah if they make that wish but I think for that type of wish there always has to be some cost

Anyways I don’t know if the Heeters will make that particular wish and maybe Elec is clever enough to come up with something else but I wonder if he is the type of character to use his brother like that in the end.
Not if your natural latent potential already surpasses that of the current strongest mortal in the universe..

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:50 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:32 am
GodVegetto91 wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:25 am I hope Dragon Ball Super doesn’t get “cancelled” because of the whole Macki scene xD (Pun intended.)

Sorry, I just HAD to! xD
It won't be. JUMP doesn't care about women at all and the wealthy almost never, ever face consequences for their actions.

Just like in real life creepy men will continue to be able to sexually harass us women in these comics for children and face no consequences because that's what the creators find appropriate and funny for their comic aimed at kids.
Did you forget about Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein???

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:04 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:50 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:32 am
GodVegetto91 wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:25 am I hope Dragon Ball Super doesn’t get “cancelled” because of the whole Macki scene xD (Pun intended.)

Sorry, I just HAD to! xD
It won't be. JUMP doesn't care about women at all and the wealthy almost never, ever face consequences for their actions.

Just like in real life creepy men will continue to be able to sexually harass us women in these comics for children and face no consequences because that's what the creators find appropriate and funny for their comic aimed at kids.
Did you forget about Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein???
Did you forget how I used the word 'almost'? Because a vast majority of those chuckle fucks wind up with comebacks six months later.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:16 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:04 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:50 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:32 am

It won't be. JUMP doesn't care about women at all and the wealthy almost never, ever face consequences for their actions.

Just like in real life creepy men will continue to be able to sexually harass us women in these comics for children and face no consequences because that's what the creators find appropriate and funny for their comic aimed at kids.
Did you forget about Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein???
Did you forget how I used the word 'almost'? Because a vast majority of those chuckle fucks wind up with comebacks six months later.
Oh my bad then.. Fair enough!😉

Yes, I agree with you then. They all get away with things because they themselves are the ones who own all the judges, police stations, and authorities in general. These are in THEIR bags!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JewyB » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:17 pm

So,how's about that Goku y'all?

He's pretty good at dodging now, i hear.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:19 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:46 pm
DiscountDabi wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:04 pm Ok, so at first with the Destruction Earring thing I was ready to write it off as another Dumb Toyotaro Decision and leave it at that.

Until it occurred to me that even though not all Gods of Destruction have the Earring, its never shown that any of those Gods who don’t have the Earring can’t use Hakai.

As long as you stick to Toyotaro’s Manga Continuity, it makes sense. So before the TOP, we see Beerus defeat Vegeta and say “You could probably be a God of Destruction in another Universe”

Vegeta at the time didn’t know Hakai, yet could be a God of Destruction in another universe. He could be just referring to his raw strength, but Its still something to consider. And its important to remember that the only God we see use Hakai without the earring is in the anime with Sidra.

We then see the Zen-Exhibition with The G.O.D’s fighting each other. If you notice, the one’s who don’t have the earring fought using their fists or other weapons, while the one’s who did have an earring use blasts a bunch. Again Implying that those Gods can’t use Hakai.

Then you have Toppo. In the Anime they gave him powers of destruction, but no such thing happens in the Manga despite the fact that he was still being trained to be a God of Destruction.

When It comes down to it, this detail with the earring when looking back on the past just kinda adds a bit of flavor to the Gods with the knowledge that not all of them actually can use Hakai.
I didn't even bother to check if the other GoDs had earrings. Interesting, Quitela the one implied to be on Beerus' level doesn't have one. Only the cat twins, Rumshi and Liquir do. 4 out of 12... and Vegeta. When Beerus spoke about the technique of the hakaishin, I felt he was talking about more than 4 out of 12.
This doesn't mean 8 hakaishin can't use hakai, we've seen Vermoud hakai a girl, so maybe it's just a lack of mastery to earn the earring. They can hakai shit out of existence (something even Goku almost does on his first try) but can't tone it down like Vegeta just learned how to.

Or, it's just some crappy item a couple of hakaishin share to feel better than the rest, or because they actually are and the top 4 get to wear a golden earring. I guess Vegeta is the 5th top user in that case, he is even allowed to proudly go show it around the universe.

Also, who gives out the earrings? the angels? do the GoDs go buy one whenever they master hakai? why did Beerus had one to spare? does he keep the box with all the earrings and hands it out when someone uses the technique?
Oddly enough Belmod (Vermoud) actually does have the earring. I didn’t notice it at first but he does have it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:07 am

DiscountDabi wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:19 pm
Koitsukai wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:46 pm
DiscountDabi wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:04 pm Ok, so at first with the Destruction Earring thing I was ready to write it off as another Dumb Toyotaro Decision and leave it at that.

Until it occurred to me that even though not all Gods of Destruction have the Earring, its never shown that any of those Gods who don’t have the Earring can’t use Hakai.

As long as you stick to Toyotaro’s Manga Continuity, it makes sense. So before the TOP, we see Beerus defeat Vegeta and say “You could probably be a God of Destruction in another Universe”

Vegeta at the time didn’t know Hakai, yet could be a God of Destruction in another universe. He could be just referring to his raw strength, but Its still something to consider. And its important to remember that the only God we see use Hakai without the earring is in the anime with Sidra.

We then see the Zen-Exhibition with The G.O.D’s fighting each other. If you notice, the one’s who don’t have the earring fought using their fists or other weapons, while the one’s who did have an earring use blasts a bunch. Again Implying that those Gods can’t use Hakai.

Then you have Toppo. In the Anime they gave him powers of destruction, but no such thing happens in the Manga despite the fact that he was still being trained to be a God of Destruction.

When It comes down to it, this detail with the earring when looking back on the past just kinda adds a bit of flavor to the Gods with the knowledge that not all of them actually can use Hakai.
I didn't even bother to check if the other GoDs had earrings. Interesting, Quitela the one implied to be on Beerus' level doesn't have one. Only the cat twins, Rumshi and Liquir do. 4 out of 12... and Vegeta. When Beerus spoke about the technique of the hakaishin, I felt he was talking about more than 4 out of 12.
This doesn't mean 8 hakaishin can't use hakai, we've seen Vermoud hakai a girl, so maybe it's just a lack of mastery to earn the earring. They can hakai shit out of existence (something even Goku almost does on his first try) but can't tone it down like Vegeta just learned how to.

Or, it's just some crappy item a couple of hakaishin share to feel better than the rest, or because they actually are and the top 4 get to wear a golden earring. I guess Vegeta is the 5th top user in that case, he is even allowed to proudly go show it around the universe.

Also, who gives out the earrings? the angels? do the GoDs go buy one whenever they master hakai? why did Beerus had one to spare? does he keep the box with all the earrings and hands it out when someone uses the technique?
Oddly enough Belmod (Vermoud) actually does have the earring. I didn’t notice it at first but he does have it.
“Exerpeince”???!

How can they fuck up like that?!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:17 am

GodVegetto91 wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:07 am
DiscountDabi wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:19 pm
Oddly enough Belmod (Vermoud) actually does have the earring. I didn’t notice it at first but he does have it.
“Exerpeince”???!

How can they fuck up like that?!
How did seemingly everyone miss that? I didn’t even notice. :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by caire » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:11 am

Yuji wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:50 pm
Embarrassing post considering the holier-than-thou tone you present yourself with, next time read things more carefully.

No, I claimed that a broader analysis of women's portrayal in media and Julie's tirade on the rich lay beyond the scope of Dragon Ball, this thread, and quite frankly this entire forum. That's what is "not that deep." You can analyze and critique the Zuno scene without extrapolating from it a reductive and pseudo-intellectual critique on industrial capitalism and patriarchal influence on art as a whole.

Now if you want to engage in a Marxist critique of Dragon Ball or whatever else, then I'm all for it, I love freedom. I engaged in a critique of property rights and copyright law in a different thread (not something I'm particularly proud of, but I'm illustrating the point that I'm a different kind of person than the caricature you've already constructed), but I oppose this particular discussion on principle because of various reasons, but I'll name three. Number one is that it doesn't breed discussion; I've lurked enough time in this forum before to know that anyone coming into a discussion of the sort already has their mind made up and nobody is looking to actually engage with the opposing view but just go on a self-satisfied and close-minded rant (see Julie's posts); number two is that most users engaging with that sort of critique, on both sides, quite frankly lack the necessary qualifications and emotional stability to discuss it with the degree of depth they try to discuss it at. And number three is that, as I said above, it's a kind of discussion that lays outside the scope of the forum; oftentimes these discussions last for 10+ pages and by the end Dragon Ball hasn't been mentioned beyond the first few pages, and the atmosphere of the thread had gotten so vitriolic that the moderators close it.

Now, again, if you want to engage in the critique all the same, then go for it, I am not "telling people they can't discuss things" because last time I checked I am not a moderator, I am merely giving my opinion in the same fashion as everyone else.

Finally, and because this degree of pompous ignorance really ticked my buttons, it is absolutely, objectively and demonstrably false that you can't critique anything without an awareness or acknowledgement of the culture and society around it. To so confidently say the contrary is, without getting into a lecture here, to ignore the degree of importance and influence various schools of criticism of the 20th century had, namely formalism, and to a lesser extent the New Critics and certain applications of semiotics. I too prefer to engage in post-structuralist modes of analysis, but formalist critiques have their own inherent merit.
I am aware of the application of critical theories to fictional media and I do agree that those schools of criticism are absolutely valid to apply to dragon ball. However, something that I've found very often in the field that I work in (which is academic) is a holier-than-thou attitude that this comment absolutely smacks of: "I haven't been directly affected by this issue, but nevertheless you poor silly women are just too ~emotional~ to understand it - you simply have to look at it critically!"

As I said, those schools of thought absolutely should be considered and applied, including to incidents like this, and it makes for a genuinely interesting critique of the series. But right now, the case is merely that we just get tired of seeing this shit, and considering the past few years we're tired in general. That may not be an academic or unemotional viewpoint, but it doesn't make the point any less valid.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:13 am

DiscountDabi wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:19 pm
Koitsukai wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:46 pm
DiscountDabi wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:04 pm Ok, so at first with the Destruction Earring thing I was ready to write it off as another Dumb Toyotaro Decision and leave it at that.

Until it occurred to me that even though not all Gods of Destruction have the Earring, its never shown that any of those Gods who don’t have the Earring can’t use Hakai.

As long as you stick to Toyotaro’s Manga Continuity, it makes sense. So before the TOP, we see Beerus defeat Vegeta and say “You could probably be a God of Destruction in another Universe”

Vegeta at the time didn’t know Hakai, yet could be a God of Destruction in another universe. He could be just referring to his raw strength, but Its still something to consider. And its important to remember that the only God we see use Hakai without the earring is in the anime with Sidra.

We then see the Zen-Exhibition with The G.O.D’s fighting each other. If you notice, the one’s who don’t have the earring fought using their fists or other weapons, while the one’s who did have an earring use blasts a bunch. Again Implying that those Gods can’t use Hakai.

Then you have Toppo. In the Anime they gave him powers of destruction, but no such thing happens in the Manga despite the fact that he was still being trained to be a God of Destruction.

When It comes down to it, this detail with the earring when looking back on the past just kinda adds a bit of flavor to the Gods with the knowledge that not all of them actually can use Hakai.
I didn't even bother to check if the other GoDs had earrings. Interesting, Quitela the one implied to be on Beerus' level doesn't have one. Only the cat twins, Rumshi and Liquir do. 4 out of 12... and Vegeta. When Beerus spoke about the technique of the hakaishin, I felt he was talking about more than 4 out of 12.
This doesn't mean 8 hakaishin can't use hakai, we've seen Vermoud hakai a girl, so maybe it's just a lack of mastery to earn the earring. They can hakai shit out of existence (something even Goku almost does on his first try) but can't tone it down like Vegeta just learned how to.

Or, it's just some crappy item a couple of hakaishin share to feel better than the rest, or because they actually are and the top 4 get to wear a golden earring. I guess Vegeta is the 5th top user in that case, he is even allowed to proudly go show it around the universe.

Also, who gives out the earrings? the angels? do the GoDs go buy one whenever they master hakai? why did Beerus had one to spare? does he keep the box with all the earrings and hands it out when someone uses the technique?
Oddly enough Belmod (Vermoud) actually does have the earring. I didn’t notice it at first but he does have it.
Whatcha know? he doesn't have one in the anime, which were the images I looked at before I wrote my comment.

I guess you could be right, and Vegeta is 6th behind Vermoud. It's really impressive.
But like another poster said, it wouldn't make sense if 7 hakaishin lacked hakai, which seems to be THE hakaishin ability, maybe it's about who mastered the full technique, using hakai without destroying the target. Vegeta can use it in battle, maybe Sidra can't.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Yuji » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:17 am

caire wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:11 am

I am aware of the application of critical theories to fictional media and I do agree that those schools of criticism are absolutely valid to apply to dragon ball. However, something that I've found very often in the field that I work in (which is academic) is a holier-than-thou attitude that this comment absolutely smacks of: "I haven't been directly affected by this issue, but nevertheless you poor silly women are just too ~emotional~ to understand it - you simply have to look at it critically!"

As I said, those schools of thought absolutely should be considered and applied, including to incidents like this, and it makes for a genuinely interesting critique of the series. But right now, the case is merely that we just get tired of seeing this shit, and considering the past few years we're tired in general. That may not be an academic or unemotional viewpoint, but it doesn't make the point any less valid.
Now this is just making assumptions on my identity and the things I've experienced or have been affected by. I don't think I've mentioned once in my post history my upbringing or identity, which really just bolsters my point. Like I said, you're free to do whatever you want, as I am free to express my distaste for moralistic rants that bring more harm to the causes you're trying to promote. Optics is important and going on unhinged, pseudo-intellectual tirades every time something slightly problematic happens in media, sometimes going as far as shoehorning unrelated topics into every discussion because you feel an understandable yet off-putting attachment to said issues (see Julie when she talks about trans issues), isn't good optics to anyone who doesn't already agree with you (and it isn't even good optics for the people who do, case in point: myself).

I don't know where you work/study at or which field, but in my experience academia has been the exact opposite. Still elitist, but not in the way you describe it. Now this is the last post I make on the subject because my original intent was precisely not to derail the thread and I've ended up contributing to doing that.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:23 am

Vegeta doesn’t wear the earring in End of Z. It might be that some Gods of Destruction don’t feel like wearing it all the time too. Out-of-universe explanation is that they just came up with this earring lore.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Yuji » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:28 am

emperior wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:23 am Vegeta doesn’t wear the earring in End of Z. It might be that some Gods of Destruction don’t feel like wearing it all the time too. Out-of-universe explanation is that they just came up with this earring lore.
I just took it as something Beerus made up on the spot to signal to Whis that he's his pupil now, who retorts simply by signing Goku's shirt. A bit of banter between the two, not necessarily a confirmation of an in-universe role.

Considering Toyotaro's penchant for making little things matter in the long run, it may end up being something important later though.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:42 am

Koitsukai wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:13 amBut like another poster said, it wouldn't make sense if 7 hakaishin lacked hakai, which seems to be THE hakaishin ability, maybe it's about who mastered the full technique, using hakai without destroying the target. Vegeta can use it in battle, maybe Sidra can't.
You could potentially add Arack (Universe 5) and Heles (Universe 2) to the mix as wearers - Arack doesn't have ears, but instead wears some sort of rings over his, erm, whiskers, which might count as his version of this apparel; I don't think we've ever seen Heles's ears from under her hairdo in the Manga, so she may also wear one. It's probably likelier she does, now that the earring is 'a thing'.

So the ones confirmed not to wear the earring at this point are Iwne (Universe 1), Mosco/Mule (Universe 3), Quitela (Universe 4), Sidra (Universe 9), and Geene (Universe 12). I think it's interesting that most of the confirmed 'not-wearers' are sets of twins (1-12 and 4-9), which may have some significance; Mosco/Mule makes sense on his own as Mule doesn't have ears, and it doesn't make a great deal of sense to have his robot outer shell wearing an earring, either.

At this stage, I'd guess that it seems likelier to just be a simple question of choice whether they wear it or not.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:53 am

Magnificent Ponta wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:42 am
Koitsukai wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:13 amBut like another poster said, it wouldn't make sense if 7 hakaishin lacked hakai, which seems to be THE hakaishin ability, maybe it's about who mastered the full technique, using hakai without destroying the target. Vegeta can use it in battle, maybe Sidra can't.
You could potentially add Arack (Universe 5) and Heles (Universe 2) to the mix as wearers - Arack doesn't have ears, but instead wears some sort of rings over his, erm, whiskers, which might count as his version of this apparel; I don't think we've ever seen Heles's ears from under her hairdo in the Manga, so she may also wear one. It's probably likelier she does, now that the earring is 'a thing'.

So the ones confirmed not to wear the earring at this point are Iwne (Universe 1), Mosco/Mule (Universe 3), Quitela (Universe 4), Sidra (Universe 9), and Geene (Universe 12). I think it's interesting that most of the confirmed 'not-wearers' are sets of twins (1-12 and 4-9), which may have some significance; Mosco/Mule makes sense on his own as Mule doesn't have ears, and it doesn't make a great deal of sense to have his robot outer shell wearing an earring, either.

At this stage, I'd guess that it seems likelier to just be a simple question of choice whether they wear it or not.
I sure hope so. Really no need to nerf the Gods of Destruction like this.

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