"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[JulieYBM]

Eh, she's okay. The hair style isn't doing much for me.

[Jinto]

What would be great if Bardock is the one that killed Granolah's parent but decided to spare the child but I guess they're going for the "a saiyan spared us so they can be good sometime".

[Grimlock]

Eh, since Toyotaro already made the mistake to say Vegeta was a kid by the time the Saiyans attacked, I won't be surprised if the reason Bardock spared the kid turns out to be Goku.

You're as innocent as my child. Go on, you do what it takes to survive. I'll make sure to say these same words to him as well.

(This would also cause huge problems to the timeline, but who cares, right?)

[FortuneSSJ]

Eh, since Toyotaro already made the mistake to say Vegeta was a kid by the time the Saiyans attacked, I won't be surprised if the reason Bardock spared the kid turns out to be Goku.

"You're as innocent as my child. Go on, you do what it takes to survive. I'll make sure to say these same words to him as well".

(This would also cause huge problems to the timeline, but who cares, right?)

Toriyama defintely doesn't. And when the original author doesn't care about retcons you shouldn't either. It''s good for your mental health.

[Grimlock]

Toriyama also doesn't care about power level, yet countless of discussions and threads about that, so...

[FortuneSSJ]

Toriyama also doesn't care about power level, yet countless of discussions and threads about that, so...

Yeah and that's why I don't care about power levels either. There's no point, because there will always be retcons and nonsense in DB.
As long as it's entertaining, I will keep watching/reading.

[theherodjl]

Who else have had to constantly re-adjust their personal PL lists over & over because power levels just aren't consistent, like ever??? Either a 20-33% greater difference in power is enough to dominate/kill your opponent or it isn't: The story just cannot decide if that's the case or if its instead, far more flexible than that and reliant on a myriad of variables that cannot possibly all be accounted for in more than a handful of instances.

[omaro34]

That old Namekian Monaito had 40 years to tell Granolah that it was a Saiyan who saved them. That part doesn’t make sense right now, but maybe this will be answered when the chapter comes out.

[Jinto]

Toriyama cares about PL as in power consistencies/scaling, this is why he scrapped giving them a number in namek saga. It's his way of saying "this will get messy so now we go by the character's feeling".
It stayed consistent from there.
The only problem with nowadays PL is Beerus who should've been surpassed since TOP arc.

[DiscountDabi]

Hot take Incoming: Akira Toriyama was carried by his editors. The Buu Saga shows that. Its the only arc in Z thats written by an unrestricted Toriyama and its Trash. We know Toyotaro is capable of good writing so if you gave Toyotaro more freedom while hiring a good editor you'd get a better manga.

Its time for Toriyama to go tbh. He's dragging down the franchise.

[LightBing]

Hot take Incoming: Akira Toriyama was carried by his editors. The Buu Saga shows that. Its the only arc in Z thats written by an unrestricted Toriyama and its Trash. We know Toyotaro is capable of good writing so if you gave Toyotaro more freedom while hiring a good editor you'd get a better manga.

Its time for Toriyama to go tbh. He's dragging down the franchise.

Hot take indeed. If it was for his editors Goku would probably never grow up like current Trunks and Goten, hell they'll probably would never allow him to age much to matter.

Anyway, Toriyama's role is unique. Toyotarõ has his own editor and both choose what to send to Toriyama, who then makes notes. By then Toyotarõ is already "influenced".

From what we've learned Toriyama isn't all that strict, in limited information we got he seems more concerned about the gags than story.

The only thing Toriyama might be affecting with gravity is the time period.
If he uttered the line "I don't care about writing after the original manga ended" and by consequence forcing us to be stuck.

If the above is the case, everyone involved is already crippled greatly from the get go.

The biggest culprit for Dragon Ball modern mediocrity is the suits. Broly, Freeza, Mirai Trunks, Bardock..., there's a trend here.
Remake stuff, played it safe and inject that sweet nostalgia into everyone veins.

[Xeogran]

The biggest culprit for Dragon Ball modern mediocrity is the suits. Broly, Freeza, Mirai Trunks, Bardock..., there's a trend here.
Remake stuff, played it safe and inject that sweet nostalgia into everyone veins.

At least they weren't playing it safe with Freeza in ToP, because his character was different there to all the other times and it turned out great. But now he's absent for way too long, when he could be used to spice up the story.

[Lord Beerus]

The biggest culprit for Dragon Ball modern mediocrity is the suits. Broly, Freeza, Mirai Trunks, Bardock..., there's a trend here.
Remake stuff, played it safe and inject that sweet nostalgia into everyone veins.

At least they weren't playing it safe with Freeza in ToP, because his character was different there to all the other times and it turned out great. But now he's absent for way too long, when he could be used to spice up the story.

Freeza coming back (TWICE, no less) was 100% Toriyama's idea. He's just as guilty as the like of Toei, Toyotaro, Shueisha and Bandai for pandering to the fandom and appealing to nostalgia. Not to mention Dragon Ball Minus exists partly as a shameless marketing tool for Battle Of Gods and also because Toriyama had a fondness for the TV special (without really understanding why that story worked as well as it did and why Bardock was such a compelling character to begin with).

[Omori]

About the timeframe when the Saiyan attack on Cereal happened: Both 40 and 50 years ago have been mentioned a few times.. And I think both are just rounded numbers which we shouldn't take too exactly. I agree that it is confusing as it's inconsistent. But if we talk about past events in real life, we probably do the same though.

Anyway, technically we might even be already in Age 781 by now.. Attack on Cereal maybe 736-739 (depending on if the actual destruction is Age 737 or 739)..
So something between 42 and 45 years... and they rounded in both directions..
That's my take on it so far. Let's see if we get more clarity at some point.

[Jiren The Alpha]

Hot take Incoming: Akira Toriyama was carried by his editors. The Buu Saga shows that. Its the only arc in Z thats written by an unrestricted Toriyama and its Trash. We know Toyotaro is capable of good writing so if you gave Toyotaro more freedom while hiring a good editor you'd get a better manga.

Its time for Toriyama to go tbh. He's dragging down the franchise.

Dragon Ball Super: Broly, the highest-grossing Dragon Ball movie and Fukkatsu no F the second highest, how is that dragging down the franchise? And Toyataro being a good writer? All the interesting ideas in this arc are from Toriyama. And ones again, if Toyotaro was writing a manga with no connection to Dragon Ball, nobody would know who he is and nobody would care about him, because hes writing is below average.

[LightBing]

At least they weren't playing it safe with Freeza in ToP, because his character was different there to all the other times and it turned out great. But now he's absent for way too long, when he could be used to spice up the story.

Freeza's unnecessary return has been mitigated by his later appearances(let's hope this arc bring him into the fold again).
I agree with you that he's not been used enough and it's more of a back-pocket device instead of an ever present enemy.

Someone like Vegeta should be salivating to kill Freeza for the smallest crime, regardless if Goku doesn't care.

Freeza coming back (TWICE, no less) was 100% Toriyama's idea. He's just as guilty as the like of Toei, Toyotaro, Shueisha and Bandai for pandering to the fandom and appealing to nostalgia. Not to mention Dragon Ball Minus exists partly as a shameless marketing tool for Battle Of Gods and also because Toriyama had a fondness for the TV special (without really understanding why that story worked as well as it did and why Bardock was such a compelling character to begin with).

At least Freeza has been used further in the story. It still doesn't remove the fact FnF is the worst arc/movie in Super by a good margin.
Toriyama isn't untouchable but BoG gave us fresh concepts, characters and transformations, the most in all of Super.

The problem with Toriyama is that he seems to role with it, probably ignoring the intentions behind the suggestions of bringing Broly and such for a future arc/movie.

Regarding Minus, it's so innocuous I never understood why people make a big deal about it. Personally I prefer the portrayal of the character there since it doesn't make him special and it doesn't insert a plot device directly into his head.
Rather have a low class Saiyan with a brain and a sense of fatherhood.

Toriyama is and will always be a plus for Dragon Ball, in general.
Letting people of the leash creatively like Toyotarõ would probably the best for the franchise. Toyotarõ unfortunately is so "respectful" of Dragon Ball that even with liberty he would have a hard time doing anything significant.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Hot take Incoming: Akira Toriyama was carried by his editors.

1) Toriyama was still responsible of the execution of the final product, his editors were not the ones who drew how the story was executed.

The Buu Saga shows that. Its the only arc in Z thats written by an unrestricted Toriyama and its Trash.

2) A correlation does NOT imply a causation.

[Izanagi]

Hot take Incoming: Akira Toriyama was carried by his editors. The Buu Saga shows that. Its the only arc in Z thats written by an unrestricted Toriyama and its Trash. We know Toyotaro is capable of good writing so if you gave Toyotaro more freedom while hiring a good editor you'd get a better manga.

Its time for Toriyama to go tbh. He's dragging down the franchise.

Dragon Ball Super: Broly, the highest-grossing Dragon Ball movie and Fukkatsu no F the second highest, how is that dragging down the franchise? And Toyataro being a good writer? All the interesting ideas in this arc are from Toriyama. And ones again, if Toyotaro was writing a manga with no connection to Dragon Ball, nobody would know who he is and nobody would care about him, because hes writing is below average.

Toriyama didn't write Broly, or at least, he didn't write the entire script. It was too short to make a movie out of, so Akio Iyoku decided to also adapt Minus to make it longer.

"The scenario we received at first, Toriyama-sensei himself said, “I think it might be a bit short…?”… And so from there we added several plot points. And then it ended up being unexpectedly long. (Laughs)"

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

Toriyama didn't write Broly, or at least, he didn't write the entire script. It was too short to make a movie out of, so Akio Iyoku decided to also adapt Minus to make it longer.

That's not true. Toriyama wrote all of Broly. He received suggestions by Iyoku. His first draft was short, then after some revisisions he came back with a script that was around 3 hours long. Iyoku's role for the film was similar to Torishima's role for the original serialisation of the manga. He's more of a story supervisor.

[Jinto]

If I'm not wrong, Toriyama's original script for Broly was enough to make a 2+ hour movie, "short" here is subjective.

Toyotaro isn't a bad writer, he is a fanfic writer ie not working on a universe he created and knows it, this result in a writing that play it safe.