"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:21 pm

Magnificent Ponta wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:19 pm
Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:08 pm Sparing Moro is too risky. Whose to say he won't come back and drain the earth once recovered. Even if it was possible to slowly change Moro, it'd be too dangerous because realistically only Goku and Vegeta can hurt him in his current form and if he's brought back to 100% fully healed he could just bide his time and wait to strike. He could just pull a Frieza or pretend he surrenders before killing everyone.

Hell, Goku has killed people for less and Moro will always be a threat so long as he breathes. He is pure evil and there is nothing redeemable about him. If they wanted to make Moro a sympathetic villain they should've done so in the beginning, and seeing as Moro is meant to be pure evil it would make no sense to swap the narrative. Even then, Goku would realistically be like 'Moro wait, we can wish your hunger away, no biggie.'
See, with a few minor adjustments for the specific narrative, you could replace 'Moro' with 'Piccolo' here, and we'd just get something Goku's already done before in Dragon Ball.

In fact, given the similarities of character between Moro and Piccolo, and the fact that various story beats through the Daimao and 23rd Budokai arcs are reflected in this arc too, I think a lot of the things Goku's talking about and resolving to do seem to be echoes of these things he's already done.
Two problems:

Piccolo was never as evil as his dad and he fought Goku fairly despite not caring for tournament rules. That and he couldn’t kill Piccolo without killing Kami and shutting down the Dragon Balls.

Second problem, Goku kept Piccolo alive as a rival and a strange understanding that Piccolo wouldn’t kill anyone until the day he could kill him.

Moro is more akin to Freeza or Cell, who Goku only spared at first because he wanted Freeza to suffer in defeat. Even then, Freeza even on Namek is a warrior. As Goku pointed out himself, if Freeza wanted to, he could have fired a second shot at Namek and blew up the planet and Goku couldn’t stop him. Freeza, however, wanted to fight and beat Super Saiyan Goku somewhat fairly. Even Cell had some warrior aspects despite getting his power from eating people. That isn’t Moro. He isn’t a warrior nor does he pretend to be like Cell. He’s a parasite with no honor. His way of getting stronger is to eat planets.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:40 am

Jiren The Alpha wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:22 pmWhat's good about Toyataro? he copies and traces poses, his dialogues are bad and his character portrayal are worst, i discredit Toyataro because an amature does not belong in the "pro league". Toriyama said nice thing about GT too but he dosen't follow it when he makes new stories and i don't thing he is going to follow the manga (look at broly movie) or the anime.

Toyotaro is that guy that got a job because he was the only one that show up to the interview.
You're free to have this opinion but what I meant by discrediting him is that you're coming up with exaggerated claims like he traces most of the chapter and Toriyama only likes him because Toyotaro is a fan. It's hard to tell if you believe these especially this newest one that he's the only one who showed up to the interview. DB is one of the most popular shonen series of all time so it's unlikely he was the only option they had. If he was somehow the only option at the time, there's no reason to give him a more active role and keep him around this long.

I agree that Toriyama doesn't follow the manga or anime continuity and seems to follow his own outlines. I'm not sure if you're arguing he only doesn't care about the manga or also doesn't care about the anime either.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Shineman » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:52 am

Jiren The Alpha wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:22 pm
Skar wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:52 pm
Jiren The Alpha wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:28 pmToriyama properly likes Toyataro personally because hes a fan of him or maybe he don't care about the manga that much. but having a fanfic DB writer write and draw Dragon Ball was a bad idea.
Was Toriyama lying in interviews about his opinion of the manga and had Toyotaro help design some of the Gods of Destruction only because he's a fan? You can criticize the manga without trying to completely discredit Toyotaro as a writer or artist.
What's good about Toyataro? he copies and traces poses, his dialogues are bad and his character portrayal are worst, i discredit Toyataro because an amature does not belong in the "pro league". Toriyama said nice thing about GT too but he dosen't follow it when he makes new stories and i don't thing he is going to follow the manga (look at broly movie) or the anime.

Toyotaro is that guy that got a job because he was the only one that show up to the interview.
One can offer critique on Toyotaro’s writing and drawing ability as we progressed through the manga in an efficient manner. Nothing wrong with that.

Your comment, however, is the exact opposite of such. You sprout out words, but don’t get into explicit details on the why. It seems that you have lots to say on the manner, so how about actually offer more than just “Toyotaro is a hack!” sentiments over and over again? It’s tiring, boring and its clear that you’re not invested nor interested anything more in the conversation.

At the very least, you could’ve provided why you think Toyotaro isn’t suited for the manga, aside from accusatory statements with little-to-no basis.

[hr]

With that said, it been a while since I last posted here, and decided to give the manga a bit of a break, so I can binge read the entire thing (last time was Moro on Namek, I believe). That way, speculation and thoughts won’t be all over the place, since I have the next chapter right away to explain and put more details on the “cliff-hangers” that the chapters tend to do.

So far, I thought it was decent. I think Moros could’ve been build up a bit more, and frankly, I could care less about secondary characters getting into battle with the bunch of grunts. Felt that either needed to be shorten a lot more, or outright cut. But that just me being nitpicky since I have a distaste for that for any medium that does it.

Merus and Goku aspect can be a bit jarring—maybe more elements of their relationship seen in the manga can be much more appreciated. It make senses in the manga in-universe, since Goku and Merus spent months together, so I don’t question Goku feeling some type of way about it. I just question that the reader never got that chance to devolve into that as well.

Calback to the Super Saiyan transformation is quite interesting to say at the least. The entire arc was giving some “Namekish” kind of vibe. I wonder if Moro will be ended up killing Krillin when he comes back with the beans? Assuming that Moro isn’t dead, how would he counter UI since he’s getting wrecked pretty hard here.

I’m curious to see how this end, and the consequences of achieving perfected Ultra Instinct (good or bad). The arc isn’t bad, and I don’t think it’s entirely bland either. It got some good elements, themes going on and clearly some dedication for Goku’s arc. But I do think it suffers the same issues as previous Dragon Ball content, mainly old movie medium and several old story beats (we gotta train for this bad guy!). And as expected, Moro completely losing his mind at the thought of losing was a typical Dragon Ball villain fashion. Either way, I think putting it off was a good idea on my part.

Anyways, on forth to the next chapter!

By the way, does anyone have an insight of how Merus is pronounced? I have an idea... but I'm pretty sure I'm 100% wrong on its pronunciation.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cipher » Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:14 am

By the way, does anyone have an insight of how Merus is pronounced? I have an idea... but I'm pretty sure I'm 100% wrong on its pronunciation.
His name is a joint pun on the Japanese surume--dried, shredded squid--keeping in line with other seafood names within the Galactic Patrol, and mezcal, keeping in line with the alcohol-based names for angels.

Either way, the anglicized name of "Merus" (off of the Japanese Merusu) would be pronounced "Meh-rus," if one wanted to preserve his puns.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:24 am

I wonder if there’s the possibility that Moro could possibly be “redeemed” through becoming a God of Destruction and if Merus could be brought back to become his Angel.

I know this has been a fan theory for as long as this arc has been going on, but I wouldn’t mind such a development.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ChronoTwigger » Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:27 am

Frieza practically killed himself after Goku told him to receed the path of evil.
Piccolo Daimao was killed in a struggle to survive in an actual fight.
Cell shown some battle tendency directly straight from Goku himself.
For Buu, after the entire Earth genocide, Goku wished for reincarnation giving him explictly another chance.
Zamasu was executed by Beerus when possible, not by him. Later, execution was actually impossible whatever.
!!!He forced Crilin to spare Vegeta!!!!

Goku will NEVER execute a begging/struggling MAIN opponent, he does duel people. Always. According his powers, he could destroy entire worlds, but instead he does duel people, without that you don't have Dragonball.

Probably Vegeta before conversion couldd have done that.
Is Dragonball, is not Demon Slayer.

That's the fact you can't ignore: Dragonball and mostly Goku doesn't do the most rational thing, but the most "dragonballish" thing.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:18 am

Funny how this is the most “Goku” Goku has been in years and yet people still complain, showing how much they don’t understand the character.

As has already been pointed out, Goku doesn’t like to kill, especially not a defenseless opponent he’s already beaten up so easily.
It’s also quite possible that he wants to keep beating up Moro over and over until maybe he realizes how outclassed he is and decides to leave.
And it seems like this change in Goku’s attitude has sparked when Moro begged for help.

Moreover, Goku is probably not satisfied enough with the fight and wants to go on for as long as he can.

Maybe, for once, they could let Moro get back to full power and still be overwhelmed by Ultra Instinct once again, to show how superior the technique is? That would be a reversal of expectations I wouldn’t mind.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:18 am

Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:48 pmAt least King Piccolo kept his destruction on Earth. He isn't a multiversal threat like Moro could be if allowed to live.
Kinokima wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:38 pmPiccolo Jr was spared but if Goku killed him Kami would have died. Not to mention Piccolo Jr never actually killed anyone unlike Moro who has killed souls for millennia.
HeroR wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:21 pmPiccolo was never as evil as his dad and he fought Goku fairly despite not caring for tournament rules.
Guys, guys. Come on now.

I'm well aware that Moro has a broader scope of action/is more dangerous/is more likely to take a kid's lunch money than Piccolo was. I'm not saying they're the same (though frankly, "at least Piccolo fought fairly at the Budokai" is an argument I wasn't expecting to see, since he takes a hostage, nearly kills all the attendees on 3 separate occasions, figures on having obliterated Goku mid-match more than once, and gloats about it...).

What I'm saying is that the story and character beats we've seen so far for Moro find a clear echo in how things were with Piccolo Daimao/Piccolo Jr., and so it shouldn't be a major cause of shock or objection if Goku ultimately reacts to these beats in a similar way to how he reacted back then, all the way down to feeding him a Senzu Bean and letting him go, in spite of all rational objection. He might not. But he very well might.

When I re-read the 23rd Budokai arc and see exchanges like these...
(DB #188)
Goku: The outcome o' th' match hasn't been decided yet!! Don't interfere or they're gonna disqualify me!
Kami: The...match...?
Kuririn: He's still thinkin' about th' match?!! If he doesn't beat Piccolo, the whole world is finished!!
Roshi: Heh... Goku never was one to think much about the global situation. The only thing that really gets him excited...is fighting an opponent worthy of him...

(DB #189)
Kami: Son Goku! Give up this stubborn insistence on seeing who can win this tournament! If we don't defeat him now, we'll regret it later!!
Goku: I'll regret it more if I give up now! I'm sorry, but you gotta understand - it's th' pride of a martial artist.
Kami: But...
Tenshinhan: Kami-Sama... I must beg you as well... Please let Goku do this his way. The world he's defending is one he's already saved once. Surely he's earned the right...

(DB #194)
*Goku feeds Piccolo a Senzu*
Piccolo: Heh heh heh...you never learn. Your naivete will be your death. The Great Demon King shall withdraw... for now. But the day shall come for you to die... and your world to pass into this grasp!
Kuririn: Why didn't you seal him in that jug?! Moron!!
Piccolo: Ha ha ha ha!! Enjoy this life... until I return to take it!!
Goku: Train hard, Piccolo! Get as strong as you can... and I'm gonna try to pass that strength - by one full level!

Kami: My dear Son Goku... won't you take my place? The two of you will be very happy in Heaven as God and Goddess.
Goku: Me...be a God?! Y-you've got to be kidding!! That place was boring enough for a little while!! It'd kill me if I tried t' live there!! Forget it!! (...)
Kami: But Son Goku! No-one else could replace me! This is Godhood! You can become a God!
Goku: Nyaaa!
...then I see a lot of the sentiments that are being played with in the latest Chapter of Super: Goku isn't brooking interference (even from Gods) on how he's going to handle this, and he's staking his actions on his pride as a warrior and the defender of Earth - his evil opponent is apparently beaten, but the one thing he's said that seems to have stuck with Goku in the latest issue is his jibe about how Goku must think himself a God; Goku's already been clear that he doesn't want to be perfected, he doesn't want to be a God; he wants to get stronger and find new things to push him to new strength.

The objections being made that it would be very dangerous, foolish and potentially ruinous for Goku to let Moro go are all theoretically true...but they were all perfectly true when he did it for Piccolo, as well. And yet, at the time it was another symbol of Goku's development in that he was able to take that peril on and encourage it as a spur to his own personal growth. Why would he act differently, or see things differently now? The threat is bigger, but Goku has grown to meet it. Don't be surprised if you see Goku deliberately shift the balance of this encounter in a way that doesn't resolve it just because it'll make him keep growing.
ChronoTwigger wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:27 amThat's the fact you can't ignore: Dragonball and mostly Goku doesn't do the most rational thing, but the most "dragonballish" thing.
Precisely.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jiren The Alpha » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:13 am

When i read Toyotaro's manga, i don't feel like I'm reading Toriyama's manga, it feels like I'm reading a fanfic.

For example the way Vegeta was written in this arc, how he "feel bad" about his past and he had to make for it, would Toriyama write that? i know that Toyotaro is not Toriyama but still, he is supposed to be his "successor".

i already said why he should not write for Dragon Ball, his tracing of the original manga and his tracing of other medias(Captain America and now Naruto), the only talant i see is his ability to copy others and he still gets away with it because he writes for Dragon Ball, if he wrote his own original story people wouldn't even thing he was decent and forget about him.

but lets just end it her, i wish i could enjoy the manga but watching Toyotaro write Dragon Ball is like watching a 3 year old kid trying to imitat a boxer.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:18 am

emperior wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:18 am Funny how this is the most “Goku” Goku has been in years and yet people still complain, showing how much they don’t understand the character.

As has already been pointed out, Goku doesn’t like to kill, especially not a defenseless opponent he’s already beaten up so easily.
It’s also quite possible that he wants to keep beating up Moro over and over until maybe he realizes how outclassed he is and decides to leave.
And it seems like this change in Goku’s attitude has sparked when Moro begged for help.

Moreover, Goku is probably not satisfied enough with the fight and wants to go on for as long as he can.

Maybe, for once, they could let Moro get back to full power and still be overwhelmed by Ultra Instinct once again, to show how superior the technique is? That would be a reversal of expectations I wouldn’t mind.
Moro is pure evil, and thus certainly far beyond redemption. Goku should know that already by now.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:44 am

Huh, did people forget that Goku straight up told Vegeta to kill Black? And when Black was defenseless and beaten up nonetheless, and Black unlike Moro had good intentions (which means he was more deserving of forgivness or redemption if anything).

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:17 am

Jiren The Alpha wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:13 amWhen i read Toyotaro's manga, i don't feel like I'm reading Toriyama's manga, it feels like I'm reading a fanfic.

For example the way Vegeta was written in this arc, how he "feel bad" about his past and he had to make for it, would Toriyama write that? i know that Toyotaro is not Toriyama but still, he is supposed to be his "successor".
To be honest, I get that feeling a lot in DBS in general that some ideas or execution feels like a fanfic or I've seen before in a fanfic and never thought it would make its way to official DB. It's subjective and depends on what you've experienced before I guess. Vegeta wanting to redeem himself isn't one for me and feels more like what I've seen in some sequels that try to give an already developed character something new to work towards. I agree it's unlikely to be something Toriyama would write since he never brought it up in the original manga and Vegeta was at peace when it ended.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:38 am

HeroR wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:57 pm
Cipher wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:00 pm Re: "Fight as an Earthling":

"I'm not going to finish this out as a member of the Galactic Patrol (even though I just called myself one), since that would require me to execute him, but find a way to end things as an individual Earthling/martial artist," would be my reading.

Re: Why the hesitation over Moro and not over [other character Goku has killed]: Let's say there's no "feeling killing the strong guy is a waste" sentiment going on here. Goku has never executed downed, begging opponents. He's fought to kill plenty of times, but the killing always came before the fight could totally run out in the opponent, in do-or-die moments. Kill-to-win rather than kill-after-winning. Admittedly, it's a convenience of the story that we've never seen him put in a similar situation since Namek, but that's also what makes it intriguing cropping up now. (Though it's not a complete retread of Goku's moment with Freeza, as his dynamic with Moro is quite different.)

My reading is that he simply wants to give Moro a chance to go down fighting, but we won't know until next month.
But Goku killed two foes who were running away. That’s almost as bad as killing a down foe. And the lesson of Resurrection ‘F’ was you have to kill some times, even if someone seems defeated. Goku also begged Gohan to kill Cell when Cell was crippled and had no chance at winning so he wouldn’t have the chance to do anything.
And yet, after the Cell saga, Goku didn't kill Boo (even though he could) because he wanted to leave the fate of the entire Earth (and the universe) in the hands of two children.

After RoF, Goku also didn't use all of his power against Black in his first fight (knowing that he was an enemy that destroyed Trunks' timeline), and spared Freeza after the fight against Broly.

Heck, moments before he told Gohan to kill Cell, he literally gave a Senzu to the enemy who was about to fight his son. Goku is not consistent and doesn't always makes the most rational decisions. I don't see him killing in cold blood someone completely surpassed and defeated that is begging for mercy

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:26 am

Still, I imagine if Goku decides to give Moro the chance to fight one last time and die fighting that it will backfire on everyone. If Moro gets healed, who's to say he won't try killing someone? I get Goku doesn't like killing defenseless people but come on, Moro is a pure evil monster and if he doesn't' die, universe 7 will crumble. Fucking hell, look at SupremeKai25's post, Goku basically said,'Fuck my turn, kill the fucker Vegeta!' When Black was basically defenseless and unable to fight back.

Moro needs to die regardless, because if he's free to roam the galaxy he'll drain like in Universe 7 and turn it into a barren wasteland. Sparing him is too risky because if he leaves Earth, who knows what he'll do. Imagine the hell that would happen if Moro found a way to other universes, all Moro would have to do is kill the Supreme Kai's and he'd be free to do whatever the hell he wanted unless the Zeno's noticed the multiverse stopped working(considering how they are it's unlikely.)
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The Bastard. » Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:55 am

HeroR wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:51 pm
The Bastard. wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:27 pm
emperior wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:02 pm I think fighting as an Earthling means fighting to best someone, not to kill them. It means fighting as a martial artist.

Seems like Goku wants to beat Moro into unconsciousness.
I honestly wouldn’t mind it if Moro got redeemed. Maybe Goku could continuously beat him up over and over, even going as far as giving him a senzu after each beatdown, so that Moro can realize how outclassed he is and decide to leave Earth and stop eating planets and become more of a martial artist.

I still think this is going to end with Moro dead and most likely by Vegeta’s hand, somehow.
People here saying that Goku should kill Moro and shouldn't let him live because bla bla bla, do these people actually watch dragon ball? If Goku didn't kill Freeza and Tambourine in the first go round until he was provoked to do so do they really think he will change when it comes to Moro? Such a disconnect between what they think DB is and what DB actually is in practice.
He did tried to kill Tambourine the first time. He literally couldn’t because he was too tired from fighting Tien. And he didn’t kill Freeza because he saw keeping him alive being worst than death. It wasn’t a mercy.
He didn't kill Tambourine because he didn't want to, point being 10 seconds after he gut punches him and he tries a sneaky behind the back attack he is obliterated by a Kamehameha.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The Undying » Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:33 pm

ChronoTwigger wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 6:27 am That's the fact you can't ignore: Dragonball and mostly Goku doesn't do the most rational thing, but the most "dragonballish" thing.
100% nailed it.

Frankly, this litany of unfounded criticism is nothing new. "Why isn't Beerus stepping in?", "Hurry up and execute him, Goku!", etc.

Dragon Ball's main cast is mostly comprised of selfish, often hypocritical shitheads who frequently make terrible decisions, and Dragon Ball is at its best when it's using those choices to facilitate the story. That's what makes DB unique, fun, and interesting. Having the protags eliminate bad guys in the most practical, straightforward manner possible isn't.

If I wanted a generic superhero manga, I'd read My Hero Academia.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:58 pm

Yeah, what would be the fun in seeing Goku just go for the kill? I get it that some do not like Moro. I don’t like him too. But it would be a terribly narrative if he had died this chapter just like that, and just because Goku is GP. What happened is much better and much more Dragon Ball.

Also, Goku told Vegeta to finish Black not to kill him. Maybe he meant to kill, but it can be interpreted as “knock him out”. But anyways Goku also told Gohan to kill Cell so it seems like he has no problems telling others to do the deed but doesn’t like to do it himself unless pushed for it.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:40 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:38 am
HeroR wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:57 pm
Cipher wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:00 pm Re: "Fight as an Earthling":

"I'm not going to finish this out as a member of the Galactic Patrol (even though I just called myself one), since that would require me to execute him, but find a way to end things as an individual Earthling/martial artist," would be my reading.

Re: Why the hesitation over Moro and not over [other character Goku has killed]: Let's say there's no "feeling killing the strong guy is a waste" sentiment going on here. Goku has never executed downed, begging opponents. He's fought to kill plenty of times, but the killing always came before the fight could totally run out in the opponent, in do-or-die moments. Kill-to-win rather than kill-after-winning. Admittedly, it's a convenience of the story that we've never seen him put in a similar situation since Namek, but that's also what makes it intriguing cropping up now. (Though it's not a complete retread of Goku's moment with Freeza, as his dynamic with Moro is quite different.)

My reading is that he simply wants to give Moro a chance to go down fighting, but we won't know until next month.
But Goku killed two foes who were running away. That’s almost as bad as killing a down foe. And the lesson of Resurrection ‘F’ was you have to kill some times, even if someone seems defeated. Goku also begged Gohan to kill Cell when Cell was crippled and had no chance at winning so he wouldn’t have the chance to do anything.
And yet, after the Cell saga, Goku didn't kill Boo (even though he could) because he wanted to leave the fate of the entire Earth (and the universe) in the hands of two children.

After RoF, Goku also didn't use all of his power against Black in his first fight (knowing that he was an enemy that destroyed Trunks' timeline), and spared Freeza after the fight against Broly.

Heck, moments before he told Gohan to kill Cell, he literally gave a Senzu to the enemy who was about to fight his son. Goku is not consistent and doesn't always makes the most rational decisions. I don't see him killing in cold blood someone completely surpassed and defeated that is begging for mercy
Him not killing Buu was so the future generations wouldn’t depend on him because he was dead, despite Buu being awake being partly his fault. He didn’t spare Buu out of the goodness of his heart and expected Gotenks to kill Buu.

Goku not going all out against Black has nothing to do with him sparing him or not since he didn’t. He never offered Black the chance to just walk away and even told Vegeta to kill Black after Black was beating into submission. In the anime, Goku was ready to kill Black even when when thought Black was unconscious.

Also, that was Gogeta not Goku who spared Freeza in Broly. Gogeta and any Fusion is their own person.

He gave Cell a Senzu for almost the same reason he let Freeza go to full power on Namek. To have a fair fight and to show them that they couldn’t win regardless of what they did. It wasn’t a mercy or him being nice.

See above, Goku told Vegeta to kill Black when he was beating and defenseless. In the anime, he tried to kill Black when he was beating into a building. Goku has and tried to kill in cold-blood and even ordered other people to do the same.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

HeroR
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:43 pm

The Bastard. wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:55 am
HeroR wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:51 pm
The Bastard. wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:27 pm

People here saying that Goku should kill Moro and shouldn't let him live because bla bla bla, do these people actually watch dragon ball? If Goku didn't kill Freeza and Tambourine in the first go round until he was provoked to do so do they really think he will change when it comes to Moro? Such a disconnect between what they think DB is and what DB actually is in practice.
He did tried to kill Tambourine the first time. He literally couldn’t because he was too tired from fighting Tien. And he didn’t kill Freeza because he saw keeping him alive being worst than death. It wasn’t a mercy.
He didn't kill Tambourine because he didn't want to, point being 10 seconds after he gut punches him and he tries a sneaky behind the back attack he is obliterated by a Kamehameha.
Goku did try to kill Tambourine and did kill him when he was literally retreating. And Tambourine never tried to take Goku’s back. He shot that month blast when Goku was facing him.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:47 pm

Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:26 amMoro needs to die regardless, because if he's free to roam the galaxy he'll drain like in Universe 7 and turn it into a barren wasteland. Sparing him is too risky because if he leaves Earth, who knows what he'll do. Imagine the hell that would happen if Moro found a way to other universes, all Moro would have to do is kill the Supreme Kai's and he'd be free to do whatever the hell he wanted unless the Zeno's noticed the multiverse stopped working(considering how they are it's unlikely.)
Goku sparing Moro is an obvious possibility and what most people are predicting so I don't think Toyotaro would consider it much of a cliffhanger. Maybe he expects us to assume Goku will spare Moro then surprises us next chapter?

I could be wrong since this is only my interpretation of Goku's development. Goku was more willing to kill in DB like he when he wiped out most of the RR Army and King Piccolo's sons despite many of them being weaker than him. I think he became more merciful after training with Kami since he was willing to let Nappa and the Ginyu Force live. He also showed Freeza mercy after he accidentally sliced himself in half. He spared Piccolo and Vegeta because he wanted to fight them again but also because he didn't want Kami to die as well and Vegeta was retreating from the battle.

Goku told Trunks he was going to kill Freeza and Cold had Trunks not intervened and we know he successfully did so in the future timeline. That might've been a turning point for Goku or a "I'm getting too old for this" moment and he realized some people are too evil to let live which is why he encouraged Gohan to kill Cell and wanted the kids to finish off Buu. Compare Goku's reaction when Vegeta killed Jeice to when he killed Pui Pui. Goku told Vegeta told Vegeta it wasn't necessarily to kill Jeice but Goku didn't shoe any remorse towards Pui Pui. This also carries over to DBS since he had no problem with trying to kill Zamasu and Goku Black and asked Beerus if Zeno could deal with them.

I think it would be in-character for Goku to consider Moro evil enough to kill at this point. Like I said, I could wrong and Goku spares him anyway. Goku sparing someone and it backfiring has already been done so I hope Toyotaro has something else in mind.

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