"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Magnificent Ponta]

The reason I bring this up is because it's something Goku did to Yakon, by allowing him to eat so much of his energy knowing he'd just explode. I'm hoping he figured out somehow that he can't take in any more energy, and that by doing so he'll essentially kill himself. This way he won't look so bad giving him the bean and fully healing him.

I'd also like to point up the (admittedly relatively small) possibility that he may be looking to get Merus back from nonexistence this way; if Moro's made a complete back-up of him, it may be that Vegeta can split him off (since we don't really know how the complete back-up option of OG73-I's power really 'works').

I suppose wanting to bring back Merus is possible because otherwise going through all of this just to have Moro destroy himself when Goku was beating Moro in the first place seems ridiculous and it could still backfire

But does Goku even know that Merus could still be copied? I guess it hinges on that

I thought there was an interesting beat in Chapter 62, where Gohan explains OG73-I's copy ability to Goku, and Goku thinks about it for a moment.

It could be nothing, of course (and this was also before Merus even got involved), but it seemed like Goku was treating it as information that was somehow more significant than simply what Gohan had to say about it.

Also, Goku notes in Chapter 64 that the real 'lesson' he's learned is that he isn't fighting alone, and that people like Merus did what they did for the sake of the Universe; this would be a neat way of rounding that off by repaying the favour - Merus would get his existence back from having been willing to stake it all and entrust the resolution to others.

[Matches Malone]

Merus would get his existence back from having been willing to stake it all and entrust the resolution to others.

If 7-3 is an android, couldn't Goku get the back up file after Vegeta separates them and have Bulma build an android body to put it in ?

[Magnificent Ponta]

Merus would get his existence back from having been willing to stake it all and entrust the resolution to others.

If 7-3 is an android, couldn't Goku get the back up file after Vegeta separates them and have Bulma build an android body to put it in ?

Also possible, I guess - OG73-I is basically a "macguffin" in any case, so he can basically be used however the plot requires. It really depends on whatever precise ending has been cooked up.

[Galan007]

It would actually be an excellent way to reconcile Goku's seeming stupidity here, if he essentially allowed Moro to return to full power as a means of resurrecting Merus(by way of Vegeta's Forced Spirit Fission.)

Honestly hope that's how it plays out.

[Xeogran]

as a means of resurrecting Merus(by way of Vegeta's Forced Spirit Fission.)

God I hope not. This would mean no conflict between Whis-Beerus-Grand Priest, and that's what I'm looking forward to the most after this arc ends.

Merus is also one of the only characters who can die for good because he's new and wasn't seen at EoZ. Reviving him would be such a copout

[Kodoshin]

It would actually be an excellent way to reconcile Goku's seeming stupidity here, if he essentially allowed Moro to return to full power as a means of resurrecting Merus(by way of Vegeta's Forced Spirit Fission.)

Honestly hope that's how it plays out.

Honestly with all the elements laid bare I'm confident that this will end up being the case. That'd be an actual satisfying conclusion after so many "false finishes". Whoever worked this out - good job.

[SupremeKai25]

Since this is Dragon Ball, where death doesn't matter, it wouldn't surprise me if Merus somehow comes back.

[Kinokima]

It would actually be an excellent way to reconcile Goku's seeming stupidity here, if he essentially allowed Moro to return to full power as a means of resurrecting Merus(by way of Vegeta's Forced Spirit Fission.)

Honestly hope that's how it plays out.

Honestly with all the elements laid bare I'm confident that this will end up being the case. That'd be an actual satisfying conclusion after so many "false finishes". Whoever worked this out - good job.

I don’t think anyone should be confident about anything at this point but I agree it’s a good theory

[Jack Bz]

Would be an incredibly strange implication if Merus is pulled out of Moro via spirit fission. Wouldn't that mean that could have happened when Merus was still alive and there be two Meruses? Could Vegeta have spirit fissioned another version of himself after having his neck grabbed?

[Matches Malone]

Would be an incredibly strange implication if Merus is pulled out of Moro via spirit fission. Wouldn't that mean that could have happened when Merus was still alive and there be two Meruses? Could Vegeta have spirit fissioned another version of himself after having his neck grabbed?

There isn't other versions of people within 7-3, just back up copies of them. This means (theoretically) that Goku could take that back up file (be it for Merus or anyone else) and have Bulma put it inside an android body.

[Jack Bz]

Would be an incredibly strange implication if Merus is pulled out of Moro via spirit fission. Wouldn't that mean that could have happened when Merus was still alive and there be two Meruses? Could Vegeta have spirit fissioned another version of himself after having his neck grabbed?

There isn't other versions of people within 7-3, just back up copies of them. This means (theoretically) that Goku could take that back up file (be it for Merus or anyone else) and have Bulma put it inside an android body.

Oh right, I see. That would be a surprisingly black mirror-ish concept for Dragon Ball

[Magnificent Ponta]

Would be an incredibly strange implication if Merus is pulled out of Moro via spirit fission. Wouldn't that mean that could have happened when Merus was still alive and there be two Meruses? Could Vegeta have spirit fissioned another version of himself after having his neck grabbed?

Next manga arc: Copy Vegeta arc. Imagine the salt

But ultimately, I think the idea rests more on it being left pretty open as to what the difference might be between copying abilities and making a 'complete back-up', as Moro doesn't trouble to draw out the full implications of how that's done or what it might be.

[Matches Malone]

I'm surprised we haven't gotten the full chapter breakdown by now, the wait is killing me.

Who put this together has a great memory.

[SupremeKai25]

It's fitting that Toyotaro would pay homage to Lord Slug, since Moro has the personality and motivations of a Z movie villain.

[Lionel]

That image of Moro's earth-integrated distorted face and gaping maw are pretty grotesque. Is it some kind of illusion or the real world? As others have pointed out, if Toyotaro was looking to expand Moro's repertoire and make him more of an eye-catcher then it's too little too late. Many fans are already hoping for the arc to end so we can transition over to bigger and better things. I feel the same way though I am curious to see how this will all turn out.

About the extent of my interest with respect to the fight is just how the group is going to manage to escape destruction after Goku apparently snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. You've had a myriad of proposed options for combating this new and repetitively improved Moro -- i.e Goku and Vegeta teaming up, Beerus intervening, Goku/Vegeta/Beerus three pronged assault, Gogeta/Vegetto improvisation, Whis finally unshackling himself from the sidelines and stepping in, or Zeno being summoned using the button. Care to place your expectations in one of those scenarios?

[HeroR]

Sailor Moon Crystal had similar production issues despite it being bi-monthly. And most new series starts as manga in Japan. There are very few anime originals that isn’t based on a manga or legecy series.

That and Toei actually didn’t have much say in Super’s rush production since the actual owners of Dragon Ball pushed the series so fast. Toei just didn’t help with the issue.

Is there any evidence that the actual owners pushed the series so fast? This Toei employee that AnimeAjay talked to didn't mention that and it sounded like Toei was talking responsibility:

Spoiler:

"When we started Dragon Ball Super, Toei Animation thought it could be made easily. Because they have made it before and have succeeded. But that was a mistake. They did not make enough preparations, which caused trouble many times. And they negatively affected the overall quality. As you know, the quality of Dragon Ball Super was low. Three story arcs were needed to rebuild it. Toei Animation has learned a lesson. Dragonball is not an easy title, so it cannot be made without enough preparation. They need to have enough time to make it again. Please think positively that this year is absolutely necessary for preparation."

I don't think it's a coincidence that two of their most popular franchises, DB and Sailor Moon, had poor production during their revivals because I haven't heard this happening to Toei's newer franchises. My argument was that a completely new series is unlikely to last long or standout if the production was that poor because not many anime last over two cours. I'm sure there are some with an equally bad production but I never seen them on any best of list when I look for something to watch. What happened with DBS definitely wasn't ideal since they admit they want to avoid it from happening again.

it really isn’t up to Toei to make a new Dragon Ball series with Toriyama. That actually falls into the owners if SJ since Toei is just an animation partner. It’s obvious that Super was rushed because of the success of Resurrection ‘F’ and they wanted to strike when the iron was hot. While Toei probably could have and should of pushed for more time, everyone was eager to get Dragon Ball back on TV ASAP. Also not helping that outside of exceptions, Dragon Ball has always been done on the cheap.

Toei in general had animation/production issues in all their series around early 2010s. One Piece had production issues since after Thriller Bark that wasn’t completely fixed until Wano. I did hear some of that was because Toei had too many running series at once and stretched itself too thin. Sailor Moon, One Piece, and Dragon Ball Super are the obvious examples because of their popularity. Although in Sailor Moon’s case, it had issues with making the character models true to the original manga work in animation. Namely, those models are not animation friendly.

I don’t think Dragon Ball Super is on any ‘best of’ list, I don’t pay attention to such things so I can be wrong.

[Matches Malone]

Care to place your expectations in one of those scenarios?

This is my prediction from most to least likely:

Goku and Vegeta teaming up.
Goku, Vegeta, & Beerus teaming up.
Fusion dance.
Beerus taking care of things alone.
Whis finally doing something.
Zeno being summoned, but after what he did to Trunks' timeline, I doubt they'll risk it.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Unless Moro becomes the universe or something, Zeno shouldn't be called. At least I think. Unless Moro becomes some black hole capable of sucking the multiverse away, Whis at worst, should do something to the best of his ability.

[Matches Malone]

Unless Moro becomes the universe or something, Zeno shouldn't be called. At least I think. Unless Moro becomes some black hole capable of sucking the multiverse away, Whis at worst, should do something to the best of his ability.

I really hope things don't go that far, as I was never a fan of Zamasu doing that. I know DB can get crazy, but that's a bit much for me.

[Jiren The Alpha]

Since this is Dragon Ball, where death doesn't matter, it wouldn't surprise me if Merus somehow comes back.

Tell that to Trunks timeline.