"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

kemuri07
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1005
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:09 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by kemuri07 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:34 am

There's a lot in this chapter that seems to suggest that Granolla's power up isn't as clear cut as one might think. The problem here is that Granolla's wish is short sighted. Like Monaito says: "You May be the strongest today, but you don't know who or what tomorrow will bring." It's the same problem that blinded Freeza. He was content for so long since he never thought that someone would actually be stronger than him.

There's a reason Granola is only given three years, and I imagine we will be seeing some sort of time skip.

User avatar
ssj3kakarot
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:47 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ssj3kakarot » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:08 pm

I wonder if Granola's power up is gonna lead to an even bigger threat? The only things making me give thought to this were a few lines in this latest chapter.

"You may be the strongest today, but you don't know who or what tomorrow will bring"

"Theres no better way to make new enemies pop outta the woodwork than by brandishing that sort of power"

The 1st line just makes me thing either Vegeta or Goku (or both) will just surpass him, which makes sense.

The 2nd line is what makes me think someone unknown might show up. Maybe the heeters use the Dragonballs? The one guy clearly knows about them.

Thoughts?
" I swear on that faith I can never back down now" - Goku

User avatar
Magnificent Ponta
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 899
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:25 pm
Location: Not on Tumblr, I guess

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:25 pm

ssj3kakarot wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:08 pmThe 2nd line is what makes me think someone unknown might show up. Maybe the heeters use the Dragonballs? The one guy clearly knows about them.

Thoughts?
I agree. As I said a few pages up, I think Gas may be the figure foreshadowed by lines like these ones, which may occur in the manner you suggest.

But my track record on predicting DB plot points is...not particularly strong :lol:

User avatar
Jiren The Alpha
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 391
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:46 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jiren The Alpha » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:27 pm

ssj3kakarot wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:08 pm I wonder if Granola's power up is gonna lead to an even bigger threat? The only things making me give thought to this were a few lines in this latest chapter.

"You may be the strongest today, but you don't know who or what tomorrow will bring"

"Theres no better way to make new enemies pop outta the woodwork than by brandishing that sort of power"

The 1st line just makes me thing either Vegeta or Goku (or both) will just surpass him, which makes sense.

The 2nd line is what makes me think someone unknown might show up. Maybe the heeters use the Dragonballs? The one guy clearly knows about them.

Thoughts?
Maybe Gas or 73 are gonna be the strongest in the universe?

User avatar
Grand Marshal 1
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1224
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:33 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:29 pm

Magnificent Ponta wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:25 pm
ssj3kakarot wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:08 pmThe 2nd line is what makes me think someone unknown might show up. Maybe the heeters use the Dragonballs? The one guy clearly knows about them.

Thoughts?
I agree. As I said a few pages up, I think Gas may be the figure foreshadowed by lines like these ones, which may occur in the manner you suggest.

But my track record on predicting DB plot points is...not particularly strong :lol:
I believe that if the Cerealian DBs are involved, so will 7-3. I mean it is possible that his story is over, but why use him in the first place? Just to link the 2 arcs? Something feels off. And if they don't end up using 7-3 more than getting info, conclude his story. I can't but just remind myself that an android with possibly forgotten Above GoD tier powers is somewhere around. The mean's to power are there, why introduce more?

But I'm not asking for 7-3 to get more invloved. His character was only for the Moro arc.
P O W E R

User avatar
Magnificent Ponta
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 899
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:25 pm
Location: Not on Tumblr, I guess

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:44 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:29 pmI believe that if the Cerealian DBs are involved, so will 7-3. I mean it is possible that his story is over, but why use him in the first place? Just to link the 2 arcs? Something feels off. And if they don't end up using 7-3 more than getting info, conclude his story. I can't but just remind myself that an android with possibly forgotten Above GoD tier powers is somewhere around. The mean's to power are there, why introduce more?

But I'm not asking for 7-3 to get more invloved. His character was only for the Moro arc.
I take the view that he's already been an absolutely essential accessory to Elec's plans.

They know about the Dragon Balls thanks to OG73-I, they know about Goku and Vegeta thanks to OG73-I, and they may know where Zuno is thanks to OG73-I. Elec has very firmly set out the idea that wielding information to its best advantage is superior to the kind of 'power' that is Dragon Ball's stock-in-trade. If he wanted to use OG73-I to fight, I suppose he could...but the powers he has only last 30 minutes, and then they're gone. Unless you have a freak like Moro on hand who can magic his way to taking those powers permanently (or some other hyper-convenient, not-as-yet established means of decanting the abilities into someone else), there's not a huge amount of use to be gained by that. Much better, from Elec's perspective, to figure out what he can learn about the Galaxy from a being who has been all over it.

Besides, the character is pretty much just one big shrug, to me. OG73-I was born a plot MacGuffin, and by God, he'll keep on being one as long as he's around - straight information is as fine a way to do that as copied abilities (in my opinion). He may get another run-out to do something more/else in this arc, but frankly, the precise manner of his MacGuffin-ness seems much of a muchness to me.
Last edited by Magnificent Ponta on Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
GodVegetto91
Banned
Posts: 2906
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:49 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:51 pm

Magnificent Ponta wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:20 pm I think this Chapter opens up some really intriguing possibilities.

I guess I'm most struck by the looming possibility that Granolah isn't going to the the 'Strongest in the Universe' referred to by the Oracle Fish, but rather that this might, in fact, end up being Gas. Monaito makes a big deal out of the idea that Granolah could be the strongest today, and surpassed tomorrow, and Oracle Fish remains extremely cagey as to who will be the strongest warrior that will shift the balance of Universe 7. It's indicated that this is Granolah at this moment, but Whis's statement - that it will 'cause turmoil' - seems both to be an expression of reservation with respect to Granolah and his power (since his own attitude towards it, as batistabus points out, has a pretty level character and limited scope right now) and more significant when considering the lengths others will go to in order to leapfrog Granolah as a result.

A great deal of fuss was made in Chapter 68 as to how bad it'd be for the Heeters if Granolah became stronger than Gas (and how inconceivable that would be, given Gas's allegedly extreme power despite being the youngest member of the family), and Elec specifically waves him off from fighting Granolah now. Given that the Heeters talk around their plans now - they want to become the Big Bosses and control Freeza's army, which plan Granolah's power now threatens. And their awareness of the Dragon Balls and their significance has grown over the last couple of Chapters, and right now Granolah saunters in and reveals that they can just make you the strongest being around - for a price. Gas was stronger to begin with, and presumably has the youth and potential to meet the 'condition' just as well as, or even better than, Granolah.

I can especially see the story going in this direction if Granolah manhandles Goku and Vegeta and the Heeters feel backed into a corner because he's now an imminent and unopposable threat to them. What's stopping the Heeters, in such a scenario, from using OG73-I's data to pay a visit to Earth (or else they could wait a while and go to Cereal), or find Zuno like they wanted and find out about the Super Dragon Balls and where they are (how many questions d'you think he'll allow Maki? I'm willing to guess the answer would be 'several'), and then to wish for Gas to become the strongest in the Universe? Then they'd be able to act on their desires, and the balance of Universe 7 really would be shifted. Granolah's wish wouldn't just be a Faustian Bargain for himself, but a Pandora's Box for the Universe.
I do like your theory.. But why wouldn’t they use OG73’s stored Merus’ Angel powers to somehow incorporate into Gas’ being with the best possible cutting edge science? I think they could easily write such a thing. They have 73 now. This is the perfect opportunity for them to finally use the full Angel power for REAL this time, without any drawbacks. Angels themselves are exempt from fighting (if they DO fight, they get erased!), but what if a mortal were to get Full Angelic powers? They’d still be allowed to fight at full power! All they need to do is reveal that 73 still has all the copied powers he stole in the Moro Arc stored inside him, and that Moro73 was unable to extract and utilize the full power of Angel Merus. They could write it so that Gas WILL be able to handle it with the very best cutting edge science or something. What do you think?

User avatar
TKA
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1109
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:10 pm

Whether it's Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, My Hero Academia, or whatever the fuck, the "I will shorten my lifespan for more power" is the most trite consequence you could give a character as a writer. These characters aren't real people. Their "lifespans" mean nothing. Granolah having 3 years left to live is the same as him having 20000 years left to live because this is a story, not a docu-series. Time doesn't work that way.

This is bad writing and invalidates a lot of Dragonball. There's absolutely no fucking reason going forward that anyone doesn't just wish to be stronger when a strong person shows up. This is exactly what I feared a month ago when this wish was made. Absolutely terrible.

Chapter's pretty bad too. Things slowed to a crawl.

Finally, watch the Snyder Cut. That shit's fire. Watched it 4 times already. Gonna watch it a 5th tonight.
The Creatives who inspire me: Akira Toriyama, George Lucas, Chris Nolan, J. R. R. Tolkien and Zack Snyder


http://i.imgur.com/XAnj7Yi.jpg

You saw Batman v Superman? Is it the Ultimate Edition? No? Then you haven't seen Batman v Superman. Also, the Snyder Cut is the greatest, non-deconstructionist ensemble comic book film ever made.

Kinokima
I Live Here
Posts: 2005
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:42 pm

TKA wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:10 pm Whether it's Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, My Hero Academia, or whatever the fuck, the "I will shorten my lifespan for more power" is the most trite consequence you could give a character as a writer. These characters aren't real people. Their "lifespans" mean nothing. Granolah having 3 years left to live is the same as him having 20000 years left to live because this is a story, not a docu-series. Time doesn't work that way.

This is bad writing and invalidates a lot of Dragonball. There's absolutely no fucking reason going forward that anyone doesn't just wish to be stronger when a strong person shows up. This is exactly what I feared a month ago when this wish was made. Absolutely terrible.

Chapter's pretty bad too. Things slowed to a crawl.

Finally, watch the Snyder Cut. That shit's fire. Watched it 4 times already. Gonna watch it a 5th tonight.
I didn’t dislike the chapter but I agree the consequence being a shortened life span in a series known for death not being an everlasting thing is just disappointing. The consequence should have been something that impacted Granolah more. Something that he would live to regret.

Maybe if it was you will die in a week I could feel the sense of urgency but 3 years in Dragon Ball really doesn’t mean much unless they are really going to push the story forward 3 years.

User avatar
Xeogran
I Live Here
Posts: 3056
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:04 am
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:23 pm

Kinokima wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:42 pm Maybe if it was you will die in a week I could feel the sense of urgency but 3 years in Dragon Ball really doesn’t mean much unless they are really going to push the story forward 3 years.
I still don't believe the time will move forward this much in just a single arc, not with how slow DBS has been taking it for all these years.

My theory is that Granolah will get caught off guard by Goku's technique beyond gods (UI of course) and retreat, only to try experimenting more on his body, while shortening his life span even more.

User avatar
Magnificent Ponta
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 899
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:25 pm
Location: Not on Tumblr, I guess

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:24 pm

I get the feeling that the 'consequence' being sold by the story isn't invested in the wish condition, but rather in the likely results of the wish having been actually granted: it's a bad wish made for the wrong reasons that is going to bring trouble for everyone, Granolah included. That he's accepted that he'll be on borrowed time is basically incidental.
GodVegetto91 wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:51 pm I do like your theory.. But why wouldn’t they use OG73’s stored Merus’ Angel powers to somehow incorporate into Gas’ being with the best possible cutting edge science? I think they could easily write such a thing. They have 73 now. This is the perfect opportunity for them to finally use the full Angel power for REAL this time, without any drawbacks. Angels themselves are exempt from fighting (if they DO fight, they get erased!), but what if a mortal were to get Full Angelic powers? They’d still be allowed to fight at full power! All they need to do is reveal that 73 still has all the copied powers he stole in the Moro Arc stored inside him, and that Moro73 was unable to extract and utilize the full power of Angel Merus. They could write it so that Gas WILL be able to handle it with the very best cutting edge science or something. What do you think?
Eh, I guess they could do that, but like I said to Grand Marshal 1, I'd be hard-pressed to care about OG73-I getting trotted out to be a MacGuffin in basically the same way that he was in the Moro arc. Gas could be given the powers by some conveniently available tech, but the direction I see at the moment is that the Heeters' interest is piqued by the Dragon Balls, and they wanted to find Zuno from the outset, so I guess moving back to 'powers in OG73-I' is a less satisfying direction for the story to take, for me (in theory - things that seem not great on paper can always be done well in the execution, I guess). I'd sooner wait and see how the early confrontations go and how the characters react to the unfolding situation - there may be an organic spot for OG73-I, but it doesn't seem that way to me right now.

User avatar
DiscountDabi
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 497
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:10 pm
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:04 pm

I think this chapter makes it pretty clear Elec is gonna use the Dragon Balls. And as obvious as it would be to make him wish for Gas to be stronger than Granolah (Something I still see happening in the Future), I think sticking with the Information is Power Idea and Manipulating people to get what he wants is far more compelling.

An Idea would be for him to wish to be All Knowing, to an extent even greater than that of Zuno. Unlimited Information on Everything. He would gain knowledge of The Gods and Zeno. He could be our cannon version of SBDH’s Hearts.

Once he finds out about Zeno from this Infinite Knowledge he would probably want to overthrow him. Thats just my take atleast

User avatar
TKA
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1109
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:27 am

This could be saved if the twist is Granolah's grand powerup only makes him about as strong as Piccolo after he absorbed Nail. That would make the wish much more palatable, and would be a hilarious, Toriyama-esque twist. We aren't familiar with any of these characters, so as far as we know these people could only be about as strong as everyone was during the early namek arc.
The Creatives who inspire me: Akira Toriyama, George Lucas, Chris Nolan, J. R. R. Tolkien and Zack Snyder


http://i.imgur.com/XAnj7Yi.jpg

You saw Batman v Superman? Is it the Ultimate Edition? No? Then you haven't seen Batman v Superman. Also, the Snyder Cut is the greatest, non-deconstructionist ensemble comic book film ever made.

User avatar
Xeogran
I Live Here
Posts: 3056
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:04 am
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:08 am

TKA wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:27 am This could be saved if the twist is Granolah's grand powerup only makes him about as strong as Piccolo after he absorbed Nail. That would make the wish much more palatable, and would be a hilarious, Toriyama-esque twist. We aren't familiar with any of these characters, so as far as we know these people could only be about as strong as everyone was during the early namek arc.
I thiought so too, but they had a panel of Whis reacting to Granolah to imply he's actually "current-era" strong

Kinokima
I Live Here
Posts: 2005
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:22 am

And not to mention I wouldn’t understand the point of making him not really that strong at this point. That doesn’t make sense with the wish or what was said by the Dragon.

User avatar
LightBing
I Live Here
Posts: 3848
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:47 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:54 am

The wish did nothing yet besides fast-tracking Granolah's self-destruction.

The story is not being subtle about his mistake.

First interaction with the Heaters (which was revealed are worked with Freeza) is being manipulated. He's going towards two characters training, wouldn't surprise me if he gets his ass-handed while serving as the perfect training dummy - he apparently has a better Hakai than Vegeta, I don't think that's a coincidence.
Monaito warning him is another red flag.

The wish did nothing.

User avatar
TheSaiyanGod
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1906
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:09 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:33 am

I see no reason why the wish has not been fulfilled. Why would the dragon lie about Granolah being the strongest in the universe? And Whis has also expressed concern about his presence. If before that there would not be many credible ways on how Granolah could become the strongest, this definitely will not be the case now that he only has 3 years left (assuming he did not actually become the strongest). What the story is making clear is that this power is not absolute (as we know well in DB) and how it probably will not be worth the price (since Granolah already has a target on his back because of that)

Kinokima
I Live Here
Posts: 2005
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:50 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:33 am I see no reason why the wish has not been fulfilled. Why would the dragon lie about Granolah being the strongest in the universe? And Whis has also expressed concern about his presence. If before that there would not be many credible ways on how Granolah could become the strongest, this definitely will not be the case now that he only has 3 years left (assuming he did not actually become the strongest). What the story is making clear is that this power is not absolute (as we know well in DB) and how it probably will not be worth the price (since Granolah already has a target on his back because of that)

Right I think it is more this. Granolah may be the strongest now but he used up all his potential and limited his life span. He rushed things and doesn’t has any more room for growth. Someone else can easily grow stronger.

User avatar
TKA
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1109
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:26 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:06 am

Xeogran wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:08 am
TKA wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:27 am This could be saved if the twist is Granolah's grand powerup only makes him about as strong as Piccolo after he absorbed Nail. That would make the wish much more palatable, and would be a hilarious, Toriyama-esque twist. We aren't familiar with any of these characters, so as far as we know these people could only be about as strong as everyone was during the early namek arc.
I thiought so too, but they had a panel of Whis reacting to Granolah to imply he's actually "current-era" strong
Yeah, that's the only hiccup.

But good God am I hoping anything happens that doesn't make this continue on the current path.
The Creatives who inspire me: Akira Toriyama, George Lucas, Chris Nolan, J. R. R. Tolkien and Zack Snyder


http://i.imgur.com/XAnj7Yi.jpg

You saw Batman v Superman? Is it the Ultimate Edition? No? Then you haven't seen Batman v Superman. Also, the Snyder Cut is the greatest, non-deconstructionist ensemble comic book film ever made.

User avatar
MCDaveG
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5533
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:54 pm
Location: Prague, Czechia
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MCDaveG » Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:09 pm

I really need to see where this is going... now!

But overal, wonder if they have some story plan or roadmap or if they are just going to hurl out character x is stronger than character y before, bit of story sauce, battle untile everyone grows tired from it.
I am missing some adventure or story goal in Dragon Ball now.
So far, Granolah is just an revenge-driven a-hole who will need to be put in his place, but the arc so far doesn’t serve any purpose, same as the Moro arc did. And sure, Goku and Vegeta will grow stronger, but I guess thy are past their character growth for me to care.
FighterZ: Funky_Strudel
PS4: Dynamixx88

Post Reply