"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:29 am

I previously said people are taking this hereditary kindness thing much too literally.

This puts it well. Courtesy of Cipher.

Boy do I wish Dragonball discussion wasn’t often times so infantile. If people can’t agree on the barebones of just the plot, it makes more substantial discussion nigh impossible.

You can’t talk about the pro immigration, anti-imperialist, pro-BLM aspects of Batman v Superman if you’re stuck in endless debates about whether Thug #483 got killed by Batman or not.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:07 am

PurestEvil wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:21 am I infer that a reason why Bardock was portrayed “too heroically” was because the backstory was provided by Monaito, who would view him more positively.
It cannot be this. We as readers are being shown exactly what happened. If all we got was a story told by Monaito in a few panels without a flashback, then I could agree with you.

By the way, technically Bardock didn’t save anyone. He just spared them. Goku is still theoretically the only one he saved.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PurestEvil » Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:31 am

emperior wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:07 am
PurestEvil wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:21 am I infer that a reason why Bardock was portrayed “too heroically” was because the backstory was provided by Monaito, who would view him more positively.
It cannot be this. We as readers are being shown exactly what happened. If all we got was a story told by Monaito in a few panels without a flashback, then I could agree with you.

By the way, technically Bardock didn’t save anyone. He just spared them. Goku is still theoretically the only one he saved.
I wasn’t saying Monaito was lying about everything, it was more about him either omitting some possibly bad stuff Bardock did or not knowing about them.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:01 am

PurestEvil wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 6:31 am I wasn’t saying Monaito was lying about everything, it was more about him either omitting some possibly bad stuff Bardock did or not knowing about them.
Monaito wasn't in the church scene with Granolah and his mom and yet we saw it. Your argument doesn't really work when you consider this.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jiren The Alpha » Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:51 am

Remember when people were saying that Dragon Ball had one dimensional characters and a simple story? With the way people are debating, it doesn't look like that the story and characters are THAT simple :lol:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PurestEvil » Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:53 am

Jiren The Alpha wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:51 am Remember when people were saying that Dragon Ball had one dimensional characters and a simple story? With the way people are debating, it doesn't look like that the story and characters are THAT simple :lol:
The only people saying that DB characters are one dimensional are people who dislike DB (non fans).
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Luso Saiyan » Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:44 am

LoganForkHands73 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:35 pmI think the only option at this point is to accept that this Bardock ain't the same guy from the TV special.
He never was. I never understood why, after all these years of Toriyama's comments on the character, a significant number of people continue to pretend that either he is or that he should be.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:53 am

It took me a while, but I think I prefer this design for Bardock's outfit. He looks really damn cool here (and in Minus, even if I didn't appreciate it as much when the thing came out). I really love the square shoulder pads. Wearing Monaito's cloak was pretty dang cool, too.

The Saiyan invasion is kept short, but there are some surprisingly brutal elements. The obvious one is the firing squad on the Namekians, but there's a panel of a Cerealian father breaking down and seeming to abandon his wife and son...oof. In Minus, Bardock and Leek were just clearing out monsters (although, they were intelligent enough to hold guns).

I know the Appule from the Bardock special was a look-a-like, but I wonder if this could be the real one...

We get to see Granolah's ultimate attack fired off here by Flayk (What's the pun here? Bran Flakes or something? My first thought was flax, but the cereal seems more likely). I think this was a pretty clever way to give the fans something cool they were deprived of earlier. Obviously it's nowhere near as strong as Granolah's, but it's cool to see moon destruction make a return, and Leek's scar is an interesting tidbit.

No problems with Bardock's characterization here. While the other apes are rampaging, he's scouting. When he appears infront of Muzeli and Granolah in his untransformed state (in the full page spread), we can already see he's conflicted. Showing mercy like this isn't something he's done before, but he's doing it on a whim, and he follows his gut. The mother and child remind him of his wife and son. Kakarrot is innocent and weak, but perhaps Bardock sees himself in his son (partially because they look nearly identical), and he gains a bit of empathy. The relationship between Bardock and Gine in Minus is a bit more intimate than what we see in this chapter, and perhaps these events result in increased closeness between the two.

Speaking of future implications, it seems plausible that this will lead directly into the existing Freeza lore. Maybe this is how Freeza learns about the mysterious power of the Namekians, and thus begins the search for the illusive Planet Namek. Perhaps Bardock's actions lead to Freeza feeling the need to destroy the Saiyans in the first place.

I think enough has been said about Vegeta's line, including by myself. But...one more: I wonder if Goku inherited standing up to Freeza from his father???/?

When reading the spoilers, I was somewhat concerned with how a clash with Heata would allow everyone to go their separate ways. The reason is because Oil wonders if Bardock overheard their plan to overthrow Freeza. With mutually-assured destruction a play, there's a chance for a deal where everyone walks away (...well...except Muzeli...and everyone else on Cereal...).
OLKv3 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:01 am Because Granolah would've rushed off to kill the Heeters, and gotten killed. Saiyans were an easier boogeyman to blame, since they're supposed to be extinct/have no chance of ever arriving again
I think you nailed it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mr Baggins » Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:48 am

batistabus wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:53 am It took me a while, but I think I prefer this design for Bardock's outfit. He looks really damn cool here (and in Minus, even if I didn't appreciate it as much when the thing came out). I really love the square shoulder pads. Wearing Monaito's cloak was pretty dang cool, too.
Same here, personally, but I think each design suits their characters. Modern Bardock's shoulder padding gives him a bit of a softer, more refined look, whereas OG Bardock's exposed shoulders and Rambo-style headband jointly lend to a rougher, more warrior esque vibe. They still look like Saiyan brutes, but the tiniest design details can make a world of difference.

The cloak reminded me of a couple of recent DB Heroes designs. Might be an intentional shout-out, given Toyotaro's professional roots.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:31 pm

Mr Baggins wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:48 am
batistabus wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:53 am It took me a while, but I think I prefer this design for Bardock's outfit. He looks really damn cool here (and in Minus, even if I didn't appreciate it as much when the thing came out). I really love the square shoulder pads. Wearing Monaito's cloak was pretty dang cool, too.
Same here, personally, but I think each design suits their characters. Modern Bardock's shoulder padding gives him a bit of a softer, more refined look, whereas OG Bardock's exposed shoulders and Rambo-style headband jointly lend to a rougher, more warrior esque vibe. They still look like Saiyan brutes, but the tiniest design details can make a world of difference.

The cloak reminded me of a couple of recent DB Heroes designs. Might be an intentional shout-out, given Toyotaro's professional roots.
Totally. Here's a cool interview where Nakatsuru speaks about how Bardock's design was inspired by Seven Samurai: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... nakatsuru/

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:53 pm

batistabus wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:53 am When reading the spoilers, I was somewhat concerned with how a clash with Heata would allow everyone to go their separate ways. The reason is because Oil wonders if Bardock overheard their plan to overthrow Freeza. With mutually-assured destruction a play, there's a chance for a deal where everyone walks away (...well...except Muzeli...and everyone else on Cereal...).
I wonder about that. What could possibly have happened to Gas to leave him so scarred and tormented after all this time? Just a lost battle does not seem enough.

We also know Monaito might have used the Dragon Balls back then, because at the beginning of the arc one ball had been missing for like 40 years.

What if Bardock actually killed Gas, and then Monaito bullshitted everyone into thinking he could revive him with his powers, but instead used the Dragon Balls?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:11 pm

Thani wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:45 pm But the point is precisely that he's acting out of character. He himself acknowledges that.

Bardock doesn't act like that, he doesn't know why he's acting like that and is surprised with himself that he's going to the lengths he's going for people he don't care about.

It's Gine's and Goku's influence rubbing off on him and reawakening the measure of humanity that is present - but suppressed by their culture - in every saiyan.

It's really as simple as that.
valid point but he no need for another flashback or for bardock to accompany them to another place
feels extremely cheesy

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:20 pm

emperior wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:53 pm
batistabus wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:53 am When reading the spoilers, I was somewhat concerned with how a clash with Heata would allow everyone to go their separate ways. The reason is because Oil wonders if Bardock overheard their plan to overthrow Freeza. With mutually-assured destruction a play, there's a chance for a deal where everyone walks away (...well...except Muzeli...and everyone else on Cereal...).
I wonder about that. What could possibly have happened to Gas to leave him so scarred and tormented after all this time? Just a lost battle does not seem enough.

We also know Monaito might have used the Dragon Balls back then, because at the beginning of the arc one ball had been missing for like 40 years.

What if Bardock actually killed Gas, and then Monaito bullshitted everyone into thinking he could revive him with his powers, but instead used the Dragon Balls?
It could be possible, but the DBs being used without the Heatas knowing about it probably couldn't happen.

I think Bardock took Gas hostage and forced a deal with the Heatas. There was definitely a deal between them, Toyo gave Bardock some leverage for a reason, and he never told Eleccs' plan. And I feel the Heatas never stuck to their part of the deal.

Granolah may have been involved with Elecc just like Geets ended up involved with Freeza.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:27 pm

emperior wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:53 pm I wonder about that. What could possibly have happened to Gas to leave him so scarred and tormented after all this time? Just a lost battle does not seem enough.
We also know Monaito might have used the Dragon Balls back then, because at the beginning of the arc one ball had been missing for like 40 years.
What if Bardock actually killed Gas, and then Monaito bullshitted everyone into thinking he could revive him with his powers, but instead used the Dragon Balls?
Koitsukai wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:20 pm It could be possible, but the DBs being used without the Heatas knowing about it probably couldn't happen.
I think Bardock took Gas hostage and forced a deal with the Heatas. There was definitely a deal between them, Toyo gave Bardock some leverage for a reason, and he never told Eleccs' plan. And I feel the Heatas never stuck to their part of the deal.
Granolah may have been involved with Elecc just like Geets ended up involved with Freeza.
Either way, Gas is a bit...off. Seems like we'll find out soon. It's definitely possible that the DBs were used in the past. Even if a wish wasn't made, it seems that Monaito may have used them as a distraction for Granolah, who became obsessed with finding them but eventually gave up.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PurestEvil » Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:32 pm

Tai Lung wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:11 pm valid point but he no need for another flashback or for bardock to accompany them to another place
feels extremely cheesy
Yes! That was the term I was looking for! I know this is a kid's manga, but surely they could have toned the sappiness down a bit...
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Trouser » Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:35 pm

batistabus wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:53 am It took me a while, but I think I prefer this design for Bardock's outfit. He looks really damn cool here (and in Minus, even if I didn't appreciate it as much when the thing came out). I really love the square shoulder pads. Wearing Monaito's cloak was pretty dang cool, too.
Same here. I really like that every armor has blue and yellow colors (and now dominant is green). It's army after all, so everyone should look the same or similarly. I never liked that in the previous materials Saiyans and Frieza goons had armors with different colors, it was a mess in my opinion.
But the bandana... I cannot forgive (though I'm not sure if current design would look good with red bandana...).

edit:
New design with bandana looks... Weird.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PurestEvil » Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:54 pm

Trouser wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:35 pm edit:
New design with bandana looks... Weird.
Hold on. Those legs look...so weird...
Is Saiyan's leg meant to have muscles shaped as loaves of bread?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Trouser » Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:42 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:54 pm Hold on. Those legs look...so weird...
Is Saiyan's leg meant to have muscles shaped as loaves of bread?
I don't know... Probably... Not? :lol: It's drawing from the Broly movie (but it could be redrawn by someone else, I found it on google).
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by nato25 » Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:32 pm

batistabus wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:31 pm
Mr Baggins wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:48 am
batistabus wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:53 am It took me a while, but I think I prefer this design for Bardock's outfit. He looks really damn cool here (and in Minus, even if I didn't appreciate it as much when the thing came out). I really love the square shoulder pads. Wearing Monaito's cloak was pretty dang cool, too.
Same here, personally, but I think each design suits their characters. Modern Bardock's shoulder padding gives him a bit of a softer, more refined look, whereas OG Bardock's exposed shoulders and Rambo-style headband jointly lend to a rougher, more warrior esque vibe. They still look like Saiyan brutes, but the tiniest design details can make a world of difference.

The cloak reminded me of a couple of recent DB Heroes designs. Might be an intentional shout-out, given Toyotaro's professional roots.
Totally. Here's a cool interview where Nakatsuru speaks about how Bardock's design was inspired by Seven Samurai: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... nakatsuru/
That interview is still so relevant today. Was a great read.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ObnoxiousNamek » Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:50 pm

Well…..

Personally I’ve never really cared for Bardock that much as a character OG or Minus & feel he should have played an Uncle Ben type of role in the series. If not for the sake of the old fans that want to remember Bardock for how he used to be then for the sake of not having the fandom get into an uproar over his portrayals


These developments are rushed tho If you were given more time with this version of Bardock I.e (a small side manga explaining things) these recent revelations would be easier to swallow for some.You could show how his wifes ideology softened his heart & even go into why she is like that to begin with.

Questions I have that are hopefully explained in the future:

How does Vegeta know Bardock and him being soft hearted.

Who is the older Namekian that gave Monaito the balls someone that seems to be a equivalent of Guru from Namek seems pretty important to not get a hand waved esque death.

What is the Heaters wish? Supreme Knowledge?

Art is okay only nitpick I wish Toyo would cut down on the number of character head turns it gets noticeable after awhile lol. Secretly I wish the Bardock Mizuli baby’s momma thing kinda happened just to see the reactions. I almost thought it did was going to on 14 before I went to the next page

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