"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[OLKv3]

This sure isn't MSsjB

It is.

But Toyotaro drew it different during Vegeta's fight with Beerus.

He's absorbing the ki in the 2nd panel and you can see when he's charging that there's barely any ki left. It's CSSB
Also this chapter, Vegeta appears stronger than Goku at the moment, makes sense since Goku was out of practice

[Kenneth La Torre]

It was already established by goku himself that he was holding back against toppo in a previous chapter. Goku and vegeta are equals as far as we know.

And toppo is fine in this chapter. He himself says that he underestimated vegeta, and he continues fighting. Thats all we get anyways. Only a couple of panels from vegeta and goku

[Rebel Instinct]

Also this chapter, Vegeta appears stronger than Goku at the moment, makes sense since Goku was out of practice

I'm glad you said this, I was just about to post something about this myself.

In chapter 27, Goku gets scratched by a bullet and mentions that he's out of shape. Meanwhile, Vegeta has been training with Whis and now rivals Goku at his peak in the Future Trunks arc. Later, Goku expresses interest in training with Whis again but before he has the opportunity, he gets caught up in the exhibition match and was forced to search for teammates immediately afterwards. Goku never got the chance to get back in shape before the Tournament of Power. It's this out of shape Goku that also fought Toppo during the exhibition match. We have no idea exactly how out of shape Goku is, but if Vegeta has a stronger showing than Goku did against the same foes using the same transformation, this is most likely the reason why.

And toppo is fine in this chapter. He himself says that he underestimated vegeta, and he continues fighting. Thats all we get anyways. Only a couple of panels from vegeta and goku

There's also this (thanks for translating, btw!). Toppo didn't know Vegeta was as strong as/slightly stronger than Goku and was caught off-guard by his power. The real testament to where Toppo stands against Vegeta comes later.

[BlueBasilisk]

What on Earth is going on with Vegeta's anatomy in that rushing panel? I keep looking at it but the head and shoulders make no sense.

I'm not really sure what Toyotaro is going for with the loose/dangling arm thing either. He also used that in the Trunks vs Whis and Goku and Zamasu promo art. If the arm was injured like Gohan vs Cell, then yeah, that'd make sense, but it doesn't seem to be in any of those.

[Meshack]

Vegeta is definitely stronger than Gokou during this arc but Gokou gets stronger with Ultra Instinct.

[jeffbr92]

Also I'm finding it funny once again people think the manga is going to adhere to the anime's events, especially when it comes to elimination.

Come on, it's not like the manga was always like that. Most people assumed stuff present in both medias were indeed in Toriyama outline, so many speculated U7 elimination order would be the case.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Vegeta stated himself that him and Goku are equals. I don't know where people are getting this idea that Vegeta is stronger when Vegeta himself says otherwise. People were trying to claim the same thing for the anime for no reason whatsoever. It wasn't true for the anime, it isn't for the manga.

[Exline]

It makes perfect sense that Vegeta should be above Goku since he has been training in secret with Whis. It's odd to think otherwise.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Vegeta stated himself that him and Goku are equals. I don't know where people are getting this idea that Vegeta is stronger when Vegeta himself says otherwise. People were trying to claim the same thing for the anime for no reason whatsoever. It wasn't true for the anime, it isn't for the manga.

they're getting the idea of the misinformation of MSSB vegeta bodying toppo, which was not the case as toppo said that he underestimated vegeta, and toppo continues the fight holding his own. People also seem to forget that goku stated that he underestimated toppo as well in The exhibition match a couple chapters ago.

[ToshioWrites]

Vegeta needed 6 month worth of training in Rosat, a rage boost and training hard af with whis from end of black arc to basically 2 days before ToP started just to be equal to Goku according to Whis and this is a Goku who learned mafuba in black arc instead of training and was rusty af from not training after the black arc and Beerus even commented on the shit shape he was in at the exhibition matches.

So either Goku was immensely more powerful than Vegeta at start of black arc or Toyotaro just doesn’t give a shit.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Vegeta needed 6 month worth of training in Rosat, a rage boost and training hard af with whis from end of black arc to basically 2 days before ToP started just to be equal to Goku according to Whis and this is a Goku who learned mafuba in black arc instead of training and was rusty af from not training after the black arc and Beerus even commented on the shit shape he was in at the exhibition matches.

So either Goku was immensely more powerful than Vegeta at start of black arc or Toyotaro just doesn’t give a shit.

Toyotaro doesnt care? You mean to tell me that you forgot that it was nearly the same thing in the anime, goku learning the mafuba instead of training (managed to overpower a casual fused zamasu by himself), goku getting rusty, to still end up equal to vegeta? Its more like they both dont care and the story requires them to be equal in the same form.

Also, just like the anime, goku trained in bewteen the hours they had until the TOP.

[ToshioWrites]

Vegeta needed 6 month worth of training in Rosat, a rage boost and training hard af with whis from end of black arc to basically 2 days before ToP started just to be equal to Goku according to Whis and this is a Goku who learned mafuba in black arc instead of training and was rusty af from not training after the black arc and Beerus even commented on the shit shape he was in at the exhibition matches.

So either Goku was immensely more powerful than Vegeta at start of black arc or Toyotaro just doesn’t give a shit.

Toyotaro doesnt care? You mean to tell me that you forgot that it was nearly the same thing in the anime, goku learning the mafuba instead of training (managed to overpower a casual fused zamasu by himself), goku getting rusty, to still end up equal to vegeta? Its more like they both dont care and the story requires them to be equal in the same form.

Also, just like the anime, goku trained in bewteen the hours they had until the TOP.

I have no expectations for the anime to have any sense of consistency in terms of how strong characters should be or are. Toyo for the most part handles that stuff better but in this case it just seems questionable but like you said its probably in toriyama's outline that he can't be stronger in blue

[Miracles]

People forget, Goku actually held back in the Black arc before their second arrival and then fought in exhibition matches before the TOP and then trained with Whis in both anime and manga. People are trying to make it sound as if Vegeta outworked Goku, he didn't Goku had actual battle experience.

[ToshioWrites]

People forget, Goku actually held back in the Black arc before their second arrival and then fought in exhibition matches before the TOP and then trained with Whis in both anime and manga. People are trying to make it sound as if Vegeta outworked Goku, he didn't Goku had actual battle experience.

He didn’t train with whis in the manga. He went to zeno place immediately after giving Beerus the food and no gravity chamber training. Also Goku didn’t spar with near as many people in the manga as he did in anime exhibition/recruitment arc.

We aren’t making anything up, Goku straight up says himself he didn’t train and is rusty. Beerus even worries about the shape he’s in after his fight with Toppo.

Also if you count 2 real fights with Toppo and Freeza and one short spar with 17 as real combat experience than what is Vegeta fighting against the actual God of Destrcuction of their universe ? In b4 “he got destroyed” yeah and Goku got dick kicked out of the ring by Toppo

[Miracles]

People forget, Goku actually held back in the Black arc before their second arrival and then fought in exhibition matches before the TOP and then trained with Whis in both anime and manga. People are trying to make it sound as if Vegeta outworked Goku, he didn't Goku had actual battle experience.

He didn’t train with whis in the manga. He went to zeno place immediately after giving Beerus the food and no gravity chamber training. Also Goku didn’t spar with near as many people in the manga as he did in anime exhibition/recruitment arc.

We aren’t making anything up, Goku straight up says himself he didn’t train and is rusty. Beerus even worries about the shape he’s in after his fight with Toppo.

Also if you count 2 real fights with Toppo and Freeza and one short spar with 17 as real combat experience than what is Vegeta fighting against the actual God of Destrcuction of their universe ? In b4 “he got destroyed” yeah and Goku got dick kicked out of the ring by Toppo

You're right about Goku not training in the manga but All Vegeta's training results in him only CATCHING UP to Son Goku.
Not to mention Vegeta quit his training early for Bra's birth. To say he should be stronger than Goku is making things up from the Vegeta fandom.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I see People here dont read the manga. Goku was CLEAR with everyone that he battled toppo and underestimated him, thats the reason he lost. He surely could have done more againat toppo had he known he was that strong. Probably as much as vegeta is doing right now

[LightBing]

The set up for the tournament is pretty clear. Goku was ahead of Vegeta in the previous arc, Vegeta trains with Whis and gets on Goku's level who didn't improve because he was working in the farm. Goku equal to Vegeta at the start of the ToP.

[Bergamo]

The set up for the tournament is pretty clear. Goku was ahead of Vegeta in the previous arc, Vegeta trains with Whis and gets on Goku's level who didn't improve because he was working in the farm. Goku equal to Vegeta at the start of the ToP.

I think people are confused because Goku got scratched by a bullet, which makes it seem like Goku not only didn't improve, but is significantly weaker than he was previously. This probably isn't the case, but I can see how people could conclude that Goku must be weaker than Vegeta.

[ToshioWrites]

[spoiler]Chapter starts with Hit regreting not being strong enough to defeat Jiren. Jiren and Goku stare at eachother.

Vegeta is shocked for Hit losing so easily, but Toppo thinks it's normal, no one can beat them (not with Jiren on their side at least)

Vegeta loses his temper and says he will beat Jiren. He says he's gonna prove himself stronger than Goku now.

Vegeta slaps Dyspo away and faces Toppo, who defend himself until Vegeta breaks his defenses. Toppo is surprised of Vegeta's incredible strength and their battle continues...

17 fights Botamo but his punches are useless, while Piccolo fights Jirasen.

Piccolo eliminates Jirasen and tries to tell 17 about Botamo's ability, but 17 already realized and punches Botamo so hard he's stretched to his limit, then he's shoot like a rubber band and falls off eliminated.

Gohan is fighting Methiop when he sees Jium and Napapa tag teamming against Piccolo. The 3 fighters of each universe work together, but only U7's team manages to eliminate the others.

Meanwhile, 18 and Ribrianne fight while Beerus and Heles talk. 18 is caught by Kakunsa and Rosie, while Ribrianne prepares her attack... but Kuririn cheers 18 from the stands and his face completely shocks Ribrianne.

The two girls talks and Ribrianne finally shoots her some ki blast, but she's too disconcerted after see Kuririn's (apparently) handsome face and does dogshit, 18 finally free herself and corners the 3 magical girls.

18 is gentile and allows the 3 girls to eliminate themselves before she does herself, and counts to 3 before attacking... when she reachs the 1, something hits 18 and falls off. The other girls are eliminated right away before being able to react to 18's sudden defeat.

Nobody understand what happened, but Quitela laughs as it was another victory for his fighters. The 17-Piccolo-Gohan aliance keeps fighting Universe 10's fighters and Murichim and Zircol are eliminated too.

Piccolo concentrates his senses and detects who eliminated the girls, it's Gamisars, an invisible fighter that he finish off easly, but he senses even another fighter and shoots at him... but the attack never hits somehow and the fighter eliminates Piccolo.

Without Piccolo, 17 and Gohan try to find the other fighter, but 17 is hit and throw away so far he interrups Jiren fight with Goku, who has been trying its hardest against Jiren with his SSB.

Dyspo comes to Jiren and they leave to help the team, while 17 tells Goku about the invisible fighters. He puts his hair behind his ears to hear better and finds out the enemy... who is Dhamon, a small (yet strong) bug-like creature, which explain how Piccolo was unable to hit him.

Goku praises Dhamon for being so strong despite his size and 17 eliminates him. Meanwhile, the Zenos are enjoying the tournament.

We see a big board with the results of the tournament (so far) and during this (and the previous) chapter, Universe 2's Hermila and Bikal, Universe 4's Caway and Majora and Universe's 10 Lillibue has been eliminated too. U2 only has 3 fighters left, U3 has 7, U4 has 4, U6 and 7 has 6, U10 has only one fighter (Obuni) left and U11's team is still intanct.[/spoiler]

[OLKv3]

Manga Jiren is a team player. That's gonna radically change the dynamic of Jiren and the final battle in general. Anime Jiren suddenly hated friends and thought team ups were a crutch for the weak by the finale. Then his backstory was essentially "I lost my family so all family ties are worthless REEE". Wonder how Toyo will handle this nicer Jiren