"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:43 am

Thani wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:19 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:14 pm
Mister_Popo wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:08 pm Yes, i agree some form of explaination could at least be given how he got the powers and magic, i don't entirely disagree with that.
I'm only saying there are no guarantees.

Why?
I don't think the basic plot suggests anything about it, because otherwise it probably would have been in the manga as well.
The 'weak backstory' of Jiren fe however was included in the story by Toriyama.

What is Beerus exact backstory or Hits? How did they became so powerful?
These are basically the big antagonists of the BOG and U6 arcs respectively.
We know Beerus is a God of Destruction, and they tend to become very powerful, but for such a lazy cat he seems to be one of the most feared Gods and probably even the strongest God.
We know Hit has been an assassin for a long time and born a 1000 years ago, but how did he get that Time-skip technique, that pushed Goku into Blue Kaiokien times ten?
How can this be?
We have no exact explaination yet for that either.
Right, but keep in mind that Beerus and Hit are still relevant in the storyline, they aren't dead, so there might be some reveals in the future. Meanwhile Moro's story is over, he was a one-time villain like Cell and (I assume, you never know) Zamasu. He's dead, his arc is over, what's left to reveal now?

Also, I haven't read the manga of the ToP arc, but I doubt the backstory for Jiren there was as weak as in the anime. It was literally a generic 2 minutes flashback crammed into the Jiren vs. Android 17 fight. Yikes.

At least, I hope it's not as bad, but you never know with Toyotaro.
Oh, I can answer you that. Jiren's a superhero from U11, that's it. His master was killed by a demon and was friends with Belmod, and that's about it.

Jiren just trained really hard for his strength in order to obtain his master's approval (the one thing he never got before Master Gicchin died). The irony is that Jiren's master only wanted him to learn teamwork. Also, all other pride troopers refers to Gicchin as "Master" as well, which implies they all trained with him.
Right, but good will can only bring you so far. Why is it that Jiren, a member of a weak, pathetic species living in filthy huts, attained a power that rivals the Destroyers? Is he like a prodigy or mutant ala Frieza? What kind of training did he do?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by goku the krump dancer » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:32 am

If a character serves their purpose, not every little thing needs to be explored or explained.
It's not too late. One day, it will be.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:45 am

Any predictions for the next chapter? Mine is that Beerus gets stripped of his GoD role and perhaps replaced by someone more cruel... ~~inb4 Frieza~~

At least that's what I'd write the next arc about. Time to get heavily involved into the Destroyers, they've been passive for too long.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by theherodjl » Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:13 am

I wonder if Daishinkan will reprimand Beerus or reprimand Goku & Co or perhaps even both? He has definite cause to punish both due to their laziness, carelessness, and incompetence exhibited in a matter that led to an Angel's sacrifice. EoZ seems to imply that everything all still turns out fine but I wouldn't be surprised if that ends up being Goku's delirious dream, possibly brought on by whatever repercussions Daishinkan or another divine being had enacted upon him.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Gt91 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:18 am

Xeogran wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:45 am Any predictions for the next chapter? Mine is that Beerus gets stripped of his GoD role and perhaps replaced by someone more cruel... ~~inb4 Frieza~~

At least that's what I'd write the next arc about. Time to get heavily involved into the Destroyers, they've been passive for too long.
Nice idea.
I've been thinking about a different path for Goku and Vegeta, angelic powers for Goku and God of destruction for Vegeta, but i don't know how they could, considering the situation (Grand Priest is mad).
There'll be consequences for Beerus, i'm sure of it. Maybe it's time to change the cards on the table.

p.s. Maybe the Grand Priest will remove the god power from Goku/Vegeta as well. Who knows.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:43 am

Xeogran wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:45 am Any predictions for the next chapter? Mine is that Beerus gets stripped of his GoD role and perhaps replaced by someone more cruel... ~~inb4 Frieza~~

At least that's what I'd write the next arc about. Time to get heavily involved into the Destroyers, they've been passive for too long.
Whatever you expect lower your expectations.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:44 am

You guys think everyone Moro and his henchmen killed will be resurrected next chapter? I assume they will but for some reason I think it might not happen after Vegeta freed the people absorbed by Moro including most of the Nameks. I imagine that would affect their mortal score if that's still a thing. Out of the 26 planets with mortal life, Moro likely cleared out most of them and Freeza probably conquered a few so there be might fewer than ten left.
Matches Malone wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:35 pmI think DB is currently too big for that, so chances are the manga is safe for the next few years at least.
I checked other V-Jump series and DBS appears to be longest so far followed by Boruto. That doesn't really give us an idea of long it'll last but Boruto is intended to go on for around 30 volumes and its sales aren't far behind the DBS manga's.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:31 am

emperior called it, I was wrong: https://twitter.com/DbsHype1/status/1334518167088095232

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:26 pm

batistabus wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:31 am
emperior called it, I was wrong: https://twitter.com/DbsHype1/status/1334518167088095232
Nice to know it! I forgot about this explanation I gave as to why I was so sure of it being a Toriyama correction.
I appreciate how you pointed this out. By the way, I found your reasoning at the time entirely logical and you even acknowledged how Toriyma-like the ear was, and you even concluded with “Maybe I’m wrong”.

In fact I’m wondering if other drawings which I suspect were corrected by Toriyama actually weren’t. Because I believe there are a few more corrections by Toriyama which Toyotaro hasn’t included in his volumes, for example I am still quite sure that Toriyama touched the Beerus at the end of the chapter where he corrected the Goku, but this wasn’t mentioned.

My theory is that Toyotaro only talks about Toriyama’s corrections when they are major ones, or when he feels like he can tell a bit of a story about said correction (example “Sensei taught me how to bow!” When he pointed out Jaco’s correction).

I am also 100% sure that the Uub appearing in the latest chapter has been heavily corrected by Toriyama, and I believe it’s very likely that if I’m right it will be pointed out in the next volume because Toyotaro will be able to say something about how there are very few references for Uub.

But I also believe the shot where Goku is amazed by the Genkidama, the one where his hair has highlights, has been corrected by Toriyama as that Goku looks way too similar to the one he drew for Battle of Gods’ poster, so unless Toyotaro heavily referenced that, then I have reasons to assume Toriyama corrected it.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:28 pm

It's also worth noting that they're generally looking to fill exactly two pages worth of content to fit the proper 192 total pages (you ultimately need a page count that's divisible by 4 for the binding on these). With regular chapters running 45 pages, when you include the standard table of contents, interstitial illustrations for the back of pages, etc., they're typically running two pages short. That's why you get two pages of corrections, or a two-page Jump Victory Carnival bonus chapter, or a two-page interview, etc.

So yeah: you're definitely not seeing ALL of the corrections, because there are likely more than two pages' worth!
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:51 pm

VegettoEX wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:28 pm It's also worth noting that they're generally looking to fill exactly two pages worth of content to fit the proper 192 total pages (you ultimately need a page count that's divisible by 4 for the binding on these). With regular chapters running 45 pages, when you include the standard table of contents, interstitial illustrations for the back of pages, etc., they're typically running two pages short. That's why you get two pages of corrections, or a two-page Jump Victory Carnival bonus chapter, or a two-page interview, etc.

So yeah: you're definitely not seeing ALL of the corrections, because there are likely more than two pages' worth!
Right, this absolutely makes sense. I wonder how many more corrections Toriyama provided all throughout Super, then. Maybe in the future we will finally get more details about the extent of his involvement, both with the anime and the manga.

Either way, I am very happy to see Toriyama correcting more than just the new characters. I had been waiting for him to fix one of Toyotaro’s base Gokus for a long time. Not because I dislike how Toyotaro draws Goku (even though I am not the biggest fan when he draws base Goku with a fat face and short hair) but because we have few drawings of modern Toriyama, especially of base Goku.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:41 pm

So, we got a bit of a timeline check here. So as everyone here knows during the events of the Broly Movie Chelai used the Earth Dragon Balls to Send Broly Back to Vampa. Now, during Goku and Moro’s fight Gohan Mentions that they have the Dragon Balls on the lookout ready to go. So that would mean a year has passed since then. So lets break this down.

Start of the Arc, Goku and Vegeta are with the Galactic Patrol for a Week. Spending 3 days knocked out by Moro on Namek. After that there was a 2 month Timeskip before Moro invaded Earth. So that means that the start of the arc was bare minimum 9 months and 3 weeks since the Broly Movie.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:50 pm

DiscountDabi wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:41 pm So, we got a bit of a timeline check here. So as everyone here knows during the events of the Broly Movie Chelai used the Earth Dragon Balls to Send Broly Back to Vampa. Now, during Goku and Moro’s fight Gohan Mentions that they have the Dragon Balls on the lookout ready to go. So that would mean a year has passed since then.
Not necessarily. Only one wish was used in the Broly Movie, so it could be as little as 4 months before they can be used again.

Since Buu hibernates for 2 months every year and fell asleep only immediately before the Tournament of Power, you have 2 months between then and the start of the Moro arc (well, technically, the end of the week Goku and Vegeta spent with the Galactic Patrol and on Namek), another week for Vegeta to get to Yardrat and a few more days between then (Goku and Merus leave to train "a few days" later than Vegeta arriving at Yardrat), a brief but unspecified extra length of time leading up to the first confrontation on Earth, plus another 2 months that Jaco manages to wangle out of Shimorekka - and you should just about have all the time you need for the Dragon Balls to be activated again.

You'd have to say the Broly Movie happened within a couple of weeks of the Tournament of Power, but I don't think there's anything against that. Goku tells Merus the fight with Broly happened "recently", so within the last couple of months sounds like a good fit.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by pepd » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:46 pm

Colored manga Broli
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I don't take in consideration this release, but is interesting to note that, while SS “Full Power” seems to have a green coloration, when looked with Color Picker tool, apart from one neck lock of hair, his hair is yellow.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cipher » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:30 pm

I definitely admire the color version's consistency in sticking to the idea of yellow-haired Broly only, I suppose.

The only real bit of oddness is keeping the bright green on Kefla.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:05 pm

There is no need to compare cell with moro literally cell makes fun of moro in just one panel ...
and it is perhaps the worst of moro he did not evolve at all in his objectives being much flat than other villains

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:37 pm

I haven't posted much of my thoughts on this chapter yet, so I'll do that now.

I'm kind of confused by Vegeta suggesting that leaving the ground will prevent Moro from absorbing their energy. Is that specific to EarthMoro? Why doesn't Vegeta fly when he's using blasts to activate Forced Spirit Fission? Surely Moro can absorb flying opponents if he decides to, but he was losing his mind. Is this the "passive" form of absorbing that Moro used in the Dai Kaioshin flashback?

Said it about the drafts, but I really enjoyed Moro's expressions this chapter. In the end, I don't think they made him seem quite large enough, but whatever. Migatte no Gokui continues to look great. If this gets animated, I hope they don't ruin it with the aura we saw in the anime's ToP. The lack of aura (especially one as visually busy as the anime's take) better conveys the tranquility.

The Beerus tease is was effective. It tempts me to imagine that this will actually lead into the next arc...which has me very interested. How harsh will Beerus' punishment be? Why did Whis set Beerus up?

I thought Gohan vs Seven-three was one of the standout fights of this arc. Goku vs EarthMorosHands gives us some more of what worked there.

I liked Vegeta's role in this chapter. He's very useful in an atypical way, and he's able to adjust on the fly. Good idea, Piccolo. Everyone deciding to free Goku seemed kind of cheesy to me at first, but I think it fits for Dragon Ball.

I've read some takes online saying that Goku uses the power of friendship to win the battle. Essentially, Goku used the power from all of his allies to defeat Moro. That's not true. The power from Vegeta+Gohan+Piccolo+Tenshinhan+Kuririn+Yamcha+Chaozu+etc. could not reach Migatte no Gokui and was burned like a firework. It's all Oob (with maybe some help from Dai Kaioshin).

The rest of the chapter from here is just fantastic. I love it so much. Some of Toyotaro's best work. As someone who always wanted to see more of Oob (aka not GT), this was just so exiting. Some seem really pleased with the justification for a post-Super Goku realistically getting excited over the reincarnation of Boo. I don't think this was necessary in that sense, but it's a neat and creative retcon.

The amount of God Power held by Oob really makes the Dai Kaioshin seem Dai compared to the rest of the Kaioshin, including Zamasu. The existence of the multiple Kaioshin of Universe 7 has never really jived with other universes. Is Gowasu actually a Dai Kaioshin? If so, why not refer to him as such? Or was the Dai Kaioshin of Universe 7 a true anomaly among Kaioshin? If all Shinjin from all universes hail from the same domain, perhaps he simply stood above all, and his Universe 7 distinction was incidental. Or does Oob just have shonen prodigy power that has made his God Ki grow so much?

I would not have liked Goku's giant form if the entire fight was a Megazord Battle, but I do like the way it was implemented. I don't expect we'll see this again...I view it as problem solving for that specific scenario. Loved the two-page spread.

Moro will be back next chapter.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by marumuju » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:18 am

emperior wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:51 pm Right, this absolutely makes sense. I wonder how many more corrections Toriyama provided all throughout Super, then. Maybe in the future we will finally get more details about the extent of his involvement, both with the anime and the manga.
Taking into an account that Toriyama seems to correct characters' expressions and postures on a page even by volume 11 of the manga... Toriyama has probably combed through every page of the manga and corrected every thing he finds he has something to add on. This doesn't indicate the correction always leads to a better result, although many times it does.

I don't think we'll get a fuller account than the occasional snippets we have now because the volume of the corrections is too big to present in any reasonable capacity (or the corrections are so minute that it doesn't make sense to present them). I do not know about anime, but I guess Toriyama is generally a bit more lax in that department.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The Undying » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:29 am

Skar wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:44 am That doesn't really give us an idea of long it'll last but Boruto is intended to go on for around 30 volumes and its sales aren't far behind the DBS manga's.
30 volumes is some good length. Here's to hoping Super gets a similarly decent run, despite this arc being the manga's lowest point thus far in my view.
pepd wrote: Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:46 pm I don't take in consideration this release, but is interesting to note that, while SS “Full Power” seems to have a green coloration, when looked with Color Picker tool, apart from one neck lock of hair, his hair is yellow.
Not to beat a dead horse, but I'll beat it anyway: I still think the colorists have it wrong here. Broly's shirtless form in general (not just the green hair, though people tend to fixate on it) was a Shintani thing, not a Toriyama thing, yet it's still included in the manga. I don't know why they didn't just make his hair green and remain faithful to his "Full Power" design as intended. Admittedly, it bothers me more than it should.

But there's a lot of baffling choices like this in the color editions. It's clear that the manga proper's just saying "Hey, this movie? It happened! Go watch it!" without particularly trying to change the reader's perception of visual congruence between mediums.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:36 am

I don’t particularly care about the colored manga and I feel that neither should you.

First of all, it clearly borrows most of the colors from the anime, even though in my opinion Toyotaro and not even Toriyama would have ever gone with that approach.

Sure, they sort of tried to use Toyotaro’s colors when they had a reference, but I am quite sure he wasn’t involved at all with the color manga (I am not even sure if Toriyama too was involved with the choices of the Full Color DB manga).

So I don’t really care if they used green or yellow for full power Broly. Realistically they should have used green as they did for Kefla, and that would have been much more appropriate considering how involved Toriyama himself was with the movie which means he must have approved FP Broly having green hair.
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