"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Super Murjin
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Super Murjin » Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:33 pm

I hope what we saw was a small part of the chapter and that there is still more to uncover :|

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:49 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:02 pm Why are we still doing this thing where Goku and Vegeta take turns fighting their opponent? It’s so tiresome at this point.
That's just what they do, they're rivals. I don't see that ever changing.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dbzfan94 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:52 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:02 pm Why are we still doing this thing where Goku and Vegeta take turns fighting their opponent? It’s so tiresome at this point.
Because thats all the writers know what to do, I guess. It's honestly beyond stale.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ssj3kakarot » Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:32 pm

Why did the writers decide to make Goku a dick-for-brains when it comes to fighting? Dbz Goku was always forgiving and naive, but he didn't let his guad down like they portray him in Super. Further, Whis trains him in a technique/form that makes him essentially never let his guard down, and yet they still give him the dick-for-brains treatment.

It's similar to how Vegeta always is getting hyped, then failing short, all this build up , then no real pay off. Sure, Dbz was like that in many regards, Goku goes to Namek, trains under 100x gravity, just to have his body swapped, etc, etc. But there was still the pay off.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:35 pm

Why is everyone assuming Goku let his guard down and dropped out of UI? From the Spoilers it just looks like Goku beat him in UI and then the real Granolah One tapped him and knocked him into base. Am I missing something?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by precita » Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:10 pm

The Super manga is basically just tired fanfiction at this point.

If the anime ever comes back and adapts these stories, they need a huge overhaul.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jmass97 » Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:55 pm

DiscountDabi wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:35 pm Why is everyone assuming Goku let his guard down and dropped out of UI? From the Spoilers it just looks like Goku beat him in UI and then the real Granolah One tapped him and knocked him into base. Am I missing something?
This. This seems to be the case and I hope it is. People love jumping the gun with little information for whatever reason.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:08 pm

ssj3kakarot wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:32 pm Why did the writers decide to make Goku a dick-for-brains when it comes to fighting? Dbz Goku was always forgiving and naive, but he didn't let his guad down like they portray him in Super. Further, Whis trains him in a technique/form that makes him essentially never let his guard down, and yet they still give him the dick-for-brains treatment.

It's similar to how Vegeta always is getting hyped, then failing short, all this build up , then no real pay off. Sure, Dbz was like that in many regards, Goku goes to Namek, trains under 100x gravity, just to have his body swapped, etc, etc. But there was still the pay off.
Would you rather he defeated every opponent with ease and never got hurt? That sounds boring to me.

With that being said, I don't think he was really letting his guard down here, I think Granolah is just that powerful.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ssj3kakarot » Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:20 pm

UpFromTheSkies wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:08 pm
ssj3kakarot wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:32 pm Why did the writers decide to make Goku a dick-for-brains when it comes to fighting? Dbz Goku was always forgiving and naive, but he didn't let his guad down like they portray him in Super. Further, Whis trains him in a technique/form that makes him essentially never let his guard down, and yet they still give him the dick-for-brains treatment.

It's similar to how Vegeta always is getting hyped, then failing short, all this build up , then no real pay off. Sure, Dbz was like that in many regards, Goku goes to Namek, trains under 100x gravity, just to have his body swapped, etc, etc. But there was still the pay off.
Would you rather he defeated every opponent with ease and never got hurt? That sounds boring to me.

With that being said, I don't think he was really letting his guard down here, I think Granolah is just that powerful.
What sounds boring is him always doing the same thing and not learning from it, something that Goku has always been amazing at. I'm all for him getting hurt, I'm all for him being overpowered, and even beat, because he always comes back and wins. And yes, Goku will come back from this and win. Goku learns from his mistakes and betters himself BECAUSE of it. Hit was the pressure point guy, and Goku evolved. Then with UI, it is suppose to harden his body to an unbelievable level. Remeber Moro easily punched through his chest, then UI GOku just tanked it like it was Kuririn?

It could very well be Goku thought he beat Granny, lowered UI, then whammie. Otherwise, it just has a lame vibe him being in the literally best shape of his life, and he lets his guard down in the "Anti-can't-let-your-guard-down technique". I'm hoping that after the full chapter it is that Goku dropped his Silver hair, and lights out.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by superfan2024 » Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:43 am

MCDaveG wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:49 am When GT ended on TV, I was sad and wanted more... now, 20 years later, I am actually bored to hell with a series I loved ever since.
I miss the gradual progression and designs from the past manga and Super was actually fun chapter in the 10 years period after Buu.
I hope they really do something, because the manga is losing me steadily from the middle of Moro arc
Thumbs down, big time. Change my mind.
Honestly... in a sense, I feel the exact same way. Truly the last time I've been extremely hyped for DB content was the DBS Broly movie and it left me satisfied. Unfortunately, there's just something so off about the manga, it just feels to me like there's nothing really progressing or nothing substantially cohesive between the arcs.

This is a saying all of us have heard countless times, but really, we need to get to EoZ and beyond. The 10 year gap is way past its point imo, I really want a little change :D
I'd much rather see Goku be a mentor to Oob, teaching him abilities and helping him master his powers. I'd much rather see a few arcs where the main cast gets to travel throughout the universes, exploring and fighting new enemies, especially for the universes that weren't present in the ToP. Yes, we got new transformations, but SSG was already futile as soon as RoF came around, and SSB is there? I guess? Ultra Instinct's first appearance in the anime was very exciting because it was finally a chance to see something unique for Super and DB as a whole. But the Moro arc has sort of dwindled my hype for the form already, and knowing Goku is gonna take an L with the form against Granolah this chapter just furthers it. Yes, there's more to come with the form/technique as shown from the last few chapters, but ehhh.

On the plus side, at least Granolah seems 10x more intriguing as an antagonist than Jiren and Moro combined. It was stated that this arc took more time in regards to pre-planning than the last, so I really hope Toriyama/Toyotaro has some good stuff in favor for us, and I really hope the ending of the arc doesn't bomb. I am anticipating Freeza's inevitable appearance.

This arc isn't bad right now (I mean it just only begun), so i'll be optimistic and hope things go well.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:41 am

I've really gotta dash some of these concerns here, because some of this stuff is just bad faith critisism. People saying its repetitive with "Goku drops his guard and loses" which we don't know if thats what actually happened, "Vegeta is gonna fight and get humiliated" which we also don't know is gonna happen because we don't know what the last page for this chapter is. For all we know Granolah their fight could be cut off before it even starts by the Heeters summoning the dragon or something like that.

The point is, at least wait until you know something is bad to complain about it. This happens everytime. People say something Is bad and when its revealed to be not so bad then people don't acknowledge that they jumped the shark. And it happens again, and again, and again and thats the real repetetive thing here.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PurestEvil » Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:55 am

DiscountDabi wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:41 am I've really gotta dash some of these concerns here, because some of this stuff is just bad faith critisism. People saying its repetitive with "Goku drops his guard and loses" which we don't know if thats what actually happened, "Vegeta is gonna fight and get humiliated" which we also don't know is gonna happen because we don't know what the last page for this chapter is. For all we know Granolah their fight could be cut off before it even starts by the Heeters summoning the dragon or something like that.

The point is, at least wait until you know something is bad to complain about it. This happens everytime. People say something Is bad and when its revealed to be not so bad then people don't acknowledge that they jumped the shark. And it happens again, and again, and again and thats the real repetetive thing here.
THANK YOU! I am sick of seeing fans angrily stir the pot before the fucking chapter is released and jumping to conclusions like Kangaroos. I know that it is maddening to wait a month every release, but this gossip is useless.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DiscountDabi » Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:21 am

PurestEvil wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:55 am
DiscountDabi wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:41 am I've really gotta dash some of these concerns here, because some of this stuff is just bad faith critisism. People saying its repetitive with "Goku drops his guard and loses" which we don't know if thats what actually happened, "Vegeta is gonna fight and get humiliated" which we also don't know is gonna happen because we don't know what the last page for this chapter is. For all we know Granolah their fight could be cut off before it even starts by the Heeters summoning the dragon or something like that.

The point is, at least wait until you know something is bad to complain about it. This happens everytime. People say something Is bad and when its revealed to be not so bad then people don't acknowledge that they jumped the shark. And it happens again, and again, and again and thats the real repetetive thing here.
THANK YOU! I am sick of seeing fans angrily stir the pot before the fucking chapter is released and jumping to conclusions like Kangaroos. I know that it is maddening to wait a month every release, but this gossip is useless.
Exactly. We even see more panels of Granolah and Vegeta talking so its likley Vegeta is gonna try to talk Granolah down before fighting. I'd like to remind everyone that asside from Goku and Vegeta not fighting togethor and Goku Losing, This is going acording to plan for the heeters. They expected that Granolah would be blinded by revenge and wouldn't see the forest for the Trees. He is acting exactly as he should.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:22 am

I'm going to throw my hat in with the "what's the fuss?" group, here. There are a few things that we pretty much always knew about Granolah and the character of the fight:

1. Granolah is a precision fighter thanks to his eye.
2. This fight was always going to be about whether that super precision could overcome Goku's current wielding of Ultra Instinct.
3. Granolah's abilities are amped beyond everyone because that's what he wished for.

People were pretty hyped about points 1 and 2, as I recall, but it seems that actually putting them together with point 3 in a narrative moment has caused a litany of criticisms about it - I can't really understand why; it's what we ought to be getting, particularly in the First Act of the story.

I still have concerns about the pacing of the arc, but I don't get the negativity, particularly about the moment under discussion here. But then, I never really do. It seems like some people just get off on it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by FlpShimizu » Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:31 am

Magnificent Ponta wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:22 am It seems like some people just get off on it.
Yes, they do. The state of the world actually reflects how much people get off on hating anything or anyone.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jack Bz » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:32 am

Bad faith criticisms of leaks is the most consistent thing about the super manga for sure. There's always much less vitriol when leaks don't happen.

That said, I was secretly hoping for Goku to beat Granolah here just for how unexpected that would be.

I also have a problem with not being able to avoid being hit in vital points being the weakness of ultra instinct that Toyo/Toriyama have come up with, considering this panel from the ToP:

Image

I hope it can be elaborated on a bit more.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:07 am

Jack Bz wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:32 am I also have a problem with not being able to avoid being hit in vital points being the weakness of ultra instinct that Toyo/Toriyama have come up with, considering this panel from the ToP:
I hope it can be elaborated on a bit more.
Retcon, just like Goku's Hakai being not mastered despite the fact he pulled it successfully on Zamasu were it not for him taking Mai as a hostage.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:12 am

I don’t think the Whis thing is a retcon. Remember Granolah had a special eye. In the end Granolah’s special eye is more precise than Goku’s UI. At least at this moment. Granolah though has reached his peak. Goku most certainly has not.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:14 am

Jack Bz wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:32 amI also have a problem with not being able to avoid being hit in vital points being the weakness of ultra instinct that Toyo/Toriyama have come up with
I don't think this has been expressed as one of the weaknesses of Ultra Instinct. It is one of Goku's weaknesses as a biological creature, and the fact that Granolah is able to identify them and attack them successfully despite Ultra Instinct ("even a flawless fighter cannot hide his vital points") is one of Granolah's most significant strengths, fully in keeping with his introduction as a precision-based fighter, only amped to the nth degree.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:22 am

And I don't think it's a matter of Goku, using Ultra Instinct, being unable to avoid having his vital points hit, it's just that he apparently can't avoid Granolah's attacks...at all

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