"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Sikat]

It wouldn't be the first time tho, we already had SSBe, kaioken, and various PLs.

The manga doesn’t have SSBE or SSB Kaioken.

[Thani]

It wouldn't be the first time tho, we already had SSBe, kaioken, and various PLs.

The manga doesn’t have SSBE or SSB Kaioken.

It does though. They're not named as such, but they appear on the manga.

[Sikat]

It wouldn't be the first time tho, we already had SSBe, kaioken, and various PLs.

The manga doesn’t have SSBE or SSB Kaioken.

It does though. They're not named as such, but they appear on the manga.

I don’t think we’re reading the same manga then, because they definitely do not.

[Koitsukai]

Yeah, V-Jump even named those forms, and showed the clear difference between the auras. Evolved Blue has been Vegeta's default form for the past two arcs. CSSB has no aura, Vegeta has one since the last portion of the ToP.

[Kinokima]

The manga doesn’t have SSBE or SSB Kaioken.

It does though. They're not named as such, but they appear on the manga.

I don’t think we’re reading the same manga then, because they definitely do not.

Yes they do and you can tell even more so from the colored manga.

[TKA]

Completely disagree. The point of this fight is show the results of both Vegeta's and Goku's training. However, what makes this markedly different how much Beerus' training has clearly changed Vegeta's attitude. And that's apparent in how he holds himself, how he reacts to Granolah which is markedly different from how Vegeta has held himself in the past. This is absolutely storytelling via action rather than simply focusing on exposition to get us through.

Let me put it another way.

When Yamcha fought the Saibamen, he showed their self-destruct technique, raised the stakes of the battle by dying instantly, and his death lowered the character count, thus pushing the battle closer to a conclusion. Story.

Krilling then destroyed all the Saibamen out of anger, caused by Yamcha's death. He reduced the Saibamen's numbers to 1, and pushed things forward. Story.

When Chaouzu then used the same technique the Saibaman used to kill Yamcha, the reader is tricked into thinking it might work, as it did on Yamcha. It did not, and Chaozu is now removed from the story. Story.

Tenshinhan seeing this, then reacts with a move we know is deadly. It fails and he dies. Reducing the character count and pushing the narrative forward. Story.

All of this serves to make the reader question how they will get out of this alive. The despair is sold well. Then Piccolo, Gohan and Krillin come up with a strategy to fight back. Gohan finally "mans up", as it were, progressing his development. Piccolo saves Gohan, and in doing so propels his character's growth. Piccolo dies, and the narrative moves forward.

Enter Goku, who sees all the bodies of his friends. Etc etc. I could go on, but the point has been made.

Now compare all of that with these past 3ish chapters. Goku shows up and powers up through each Saiyan form to fight Granolah. It looks like he's getting somewhere. Nope, it's actually a Granolah clone, and then Granolah incapacitates Goku. Except Granolah doesn't kill him or scar him in a way that causes any permanent or prolonged inactivity. Goku gets up this chapter and apart from some pain, is perfectly fine.

That's not a story. Well, it is a "story," in the sense that one or two things happen in sequence, but hardly compelling stuff.

But i recognize I'm comparing one of the greatest mangaka who have ever lived to a 40-something year old upstart, essentially. The sad thing is Toyotaro has done better story-based action in this same manga. Go back to the Goku Black fights in the Zamas arc, or the entire tournament of power. This is just mindless action to sell more product. Every manga or anime, or tv show or movie is to sell product, but craftsmanship matters; aiming higher matters.

[Sikat]

It does though. They're not named as such, but they appear on the manga.

I don’t think we’re reading the same manga then, because they definitely do not.

Yes they do

Repeating this doesn’t make it true. You are highly misinformed. I recommend reading the story for yourself and not believing the lies people tell you over the internet.

[emperior]

Completely disagree. The point of this fight is show the results of both Vegeta's and Goku's training. However, what makes this markedly different how much Beerus' training has clearly changed Vegeta's attitude. And that's apparent in how he holds himself, how he reacts to Granolah which is markedly different from how Vegeta has held himself in the past. This is absolutely storytelling via action rather than simply focusing on exposition to get us through.

Let me put it another way.

When Yamcha fought the Saibamen, he showed their self-destruct technique, raised the stakes of the battle by dying instantly, and his death lowered the character count, thus pushing the battle closer to a conclusion. Story.

Krilling then destroyed all the Saibamen out of anger, caused by Yamcha's death. He reduced the Saibamen's numbers to 1, and pushed things forward. Story.

When Chaouzu then used the same technique the Saibaman used to kill Yamcha, the reader is tricked into thinking it might work, as it did on Yamcha. It did not, and Chaozu is now removed from the story. Story.

Tenshinhan seeing this, then reacts with a move we know is deadly. It fails and he dies. Reducing the character count and pushing the narrative forward. Story.

All of this serves to make the reader question how they will get out of this alive. The despair is sold well. Then Piccolo, Gohan and Krillin come up with a strategy to fight back. Gohan finally "mans up", as it were, progressing his development. Piccolo saves Gohan, and in doing so propels his character's growth. Piccolo dies, and the narrative moves forward.

Enter Goku, who sees all the bodies of his friends. Etc etc. I could go on, but the point has been made.

Now compare all of that with these past 3ish chapters. Goku shows up and powers up through each Saiyan form to fight Granolah. It looks like he's getting somewhere. Nope, it's actually a Granolah clone, and then Granolah incapacitates Goku. Except Granolah doesn't kill him or scar him in a way that causes any permanent or prolonged inactivity. Goku gets up this chapter and apart from some pain, is perfectly fine.

That's not a story. Well, it is a "story," in the sense that one or two things happen in sequence, but hardly compelling stuff.

But i recognize I'm comparing one of the greatest mangaka who have ever lived to a 40-something year old upstart, essentially. The sad thing is Toyotaro has done better story-based action in this same manga. Go back to the Goku Black fights in the Zamas arc, or the entire tournament of power. This is just mindless action to sell more product. Every manga or anime, or tv show or movie is to sell product, but craftsmanship matters; aiming higher matters.

Facts. Even though I am liking the arc I cannot disagree with what you wrote.

The last two chapters in particular could have been easily condensed into just one chapter. I think pacing is the issue here more than everything else. Things sort of move forward but too slowly. Goku vs Granolah should have just been a fast appetizer before Vegeta vs Granolah, which seems like the fight which will push the story forward, and not a whole chapter.

The manga’s pacing has been problematic since Moro arc. I wonder if it is because Toyotaro is forced to pad it out for some reason, for example due to the movie planned for 2022 release or something else.

Of course he could do better but if the story has already been written I can see why he has a harder time than before, when he used to be behind the anime and could therefore pace the story however he pleased.

Like Moro, this too will read slightly better on a reread. I can’t complain though, cause the art keeps on improving as well as the choreography and panelling.

[mute_proxy]

The manga doesn’t have SSBE or SSB Kaioken.

It does though. They're not named as such, but they appear on the manga.

I don’t think we’re reading the same manga then, because they definitely do not.

It does have both SSBE and SSBKaioken, they're just not visually identical to the anime.
V-Jump had a little article a while back, here's a summary: https://twitter.com/cipher_db/status/12 ... 0934290432

[GodVegetto91]

I don’t think we’re reading the same manga then, because they definitely do not.

Yes they do

Repeating this doesn’t make it true. You are highly misinformed. I recommend reading the story for yourself and not believing the lies people tell you over the internet.

I don’t see you lasting very long on this forum with this attitude..

[FortuneSSJ]

First time a new form of someone from the main cast debuts first in DBS manga. Toyo did great with the reveal.

I'm still more impressed with how good Vegeta's dialogue was in this chapter. Not sure how many months/years will take to have something of this level again. I really liked it.

[DiscountDabi]

I don’t think we’re reading the same manga then, because they definitely do not.

Yes they do

Repeating this doesn’t make it true. You are highly misinformed. I recommend reading the story for yourself and not believing the lies people tell you over the internet.

Blue Kaioken and Blue Evolution. Both confirmed later in V-Jump

[Koitsukai]

I'm a little concerned with Goku being just fine... wasn't Granola meaning to kill them? Goku might not be able to fight again right now, but he sure is doing ok. He was out for that long either.

[LoganForkHands73]

Repeating this doesn’t make it true. You are highly misinformed. I recommend reading the story for yourself and not believing the lies people tell you over the internet.

Blue Kaioken and Blue Evolution. Both confirmed later in V-Jump

REEE NONONO, you're monstrously misinformed, these panels are nothing but fake fanmade Toei-lovin' propaganda! V-Jump is edited by manatees! You're believing liiiiieeeess!

I'm a little concerned with Goku being just fine... wasn't Granola meaning to kill them? Goku might not be able to fight again right now, but he sure is doing ok. He was out for that long either.

Don't think Goku was exactly doing fine in all fairness. He was barely able to move an inch without screaming in agony from the wound. Probably one of the best conveyances of long-term damage in the manga so far actually.

[Triggered Vegeta]

I'm a little concerned with Goku being just fine... wasn't Granola meaning to kill them? Goku might not be able to fight again right now, but he sure is doing ok. He was out for that long either.

Maybe the hardening properties of UI saved him? Took less damage due to that, my guess.

[DiscountDabi]

REEE NONONO, you're monstrously misinformed, these panels are nothing but fake fanmade Toei-lovin' propaganda! V-Jump is edited by manatees! You're believing liiiiieeeess!

I love this forum

[Sikat]

Yes they do

Repeating this doesn’t make it true. You are highly misinformed. I recommend reading the story for yourself and not believing the lies people tell you over the internet.

Blue Kaioken and Blue Evolution.

First image is just Goku powering up, not using a dated technique. Even if you are unable to understand Whis/Tenshinhan spelling that out, you have Jiren drawing parallels to Kale. Kale, to my knowledge, cannot and did not use the Kaioken technique.

SSB Goku powering up in the manga =/= Anime exclusive SSBKK transformation



Second image is not the anime exclusive transformation SSBE.

[Brettjr25]

You know, I thought I was over fusion but I think I have to see GoD Vegeta and MUI Goku fuse...

A power that rivals Zeno?!

[mute_proxy]

Spoiler:

Repeating this doesn’t make it true. You are highly misinformed. I recommend reading the story for yourself and not believing the lies people tell you over the internet.

Blue Kaioken and Blue Evolution.

First image is just Goku powering up, not using a dated technique. Even if you are unable to understand Whis/Tenshinhan spelling that out, you have Jiren drawing parallels to Kale. Kale, to my knowledge, cannot and did not use the Kaioken technique.

SSB Goku powering up in the manga =/= Anime exclusive SSBKK transformation



Second image is not the anime exclusive transformation SSBE.

Since you're ignoring it, here it is again. Screenshots from V-Jump, and the translation.

[Brettjr25]

I guess he realized his downloaded "chad" and "virgin" fan made post couldn't hold up to official scans and decided to bounce.