"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[GodVegetto91]

I hope Dragon Ball Super doesn’t get “cancelled” because of the whole Macki scene xD (Pun intended.)

Sorry, I just HAD to! xD

[Koitsukai]

Granolah is fighting a UI user and a hakai user, I don't want to call them masters of those techniques, but they seem to be pretty advanced. And while it is possible to fight UI and hakai (anime only) with raw strenght and nothing more, I think 'Toritaro' is going for the fight we can't have. Goku and Vegeta won't fight each other, so to test their technique against their rival's, Granolah having both of them solves this problem, which isn't a problem.

[TKA]

I hope Dragon Ball Super doesn’t get “cancelled” because of the whole Macki scene xD (Pun intended.)

Sorry, I just HAD to! xD

It won't be.

People need to realize there's a difference between a character being a sexual abuser and a work promoting sexual abuse. The story, both times Zuno has interacted with women, made it clear that it isn't okay and it's gross. Characters are allowed to be flawed.

Zuno can be the Harvey Weinstein of Dragonball. Everyone knows he's a creep, but he's too important to come out against.

[GalaxyBusterBuu]

You think the Heeters are gonna wish for Gas to be the strongest in the universe at the expense of his life-span so that he can fight Granolah? I mean, I don't see how he could catch up at his current level, he'll need a massive boost and the old man isn't dead yet so they can still use the balls once they get them.

[Krillin1994]

Just thinking about Granolah’s wish, he immediately went for power without even floating whether the dragon could revive his race.

Obviously shows how tunnel vision he has become on his revenge quest, so won’t be surprising to see him just attacking Goku/Vegeta without much in the way of talking to them.

People saying Goku and Vegeta wouldn’t 2 v 1 him.

Obviously they wouldn’t at first, but if they’re getting smashed around individually by someone who is stronger than them and wants to kill them, then they will team up as they’ve shown time and time again now.

[Koitsukai]

You think the Heeters are gonna wish for Gas to be the strongest in the universe at the expense of his life-span so that he can fight Granolah? I mean, I don't see how he could catch up at his current level, he'll need a massive boost and the old man isn't dead yet so they can still use the balls once they get them.

Granolah got away with that because he has a 200-year lifespan, the Heaters might not live that long. If it's possible, I think they'll try to use whatever 7-3 has stored inside to power up Gas, although the android might've served its purpose by providing the intel to get to Zuno.
We have no idea how the Heaters' race works, they might have other ways to improve their power.

I hope they don't do it through a wish, and choose to power up in a different manner.

[GodVegetto91]

You think the Heeters are gonna wish for Gas to be the strongest in the universe at the expense of his life-span so that he can fight Granolah? I mean, I don't see how he could catch up at his current level, he'll need a massive boost and the old man isn't dead yet so they can still use the balls once they get them.

Gas likely has FAR more potential than Granolah naturally. And to the other guy who replied to you, we don’t know the Heeters’ lifespans, so there’s literally no way we can comment on that right now. So the Dragon might be able to make him “the strongest” in the universe JUST by unlocking his latent potential. (Without reducing his lifespan.)

[Kinokima]

You think the Heeters are gonna wish for Gas to be the strongest in the universe at the expense of his life-span so that he can fight Granolah? I mean, I don't see how he could catch up at his current level, he'll need a massive boost and the old man isn't dead yet so they can still use the balls once they get them.

Gas likely has FAR more potential than Granolah naturally. And to the other guy who replied to you, we don’t know the Heeters’ lifespans, so there’s literally no way we can comment on that right now. So the Dragon might be able to make him “the strongest” in the universe JUST by unlocking his latent potential. (Without reducing his lifespan.)

I think Gas has the potential to be much stronger than Granolah if they make that wish but I think for that type of wish there always has to be some cost

Anyways I don’t know if the Heeters will make that particular wish and maybe Elec is clever enough to come up with something else but I wonder if he is the type of character to use his brother like that in the end.

[GalaxyBusterBuu]

You think the Heeters are gonna wish for Gas to be the strongest in the universe at the expense of his life-span so that he can fight Granolah? I mean, I don't see how he could catch up at his current level, he'll need a massive boost and the old man isn't dead yet so they can still use the balls once they get them.

Gas likely has FAR more potential than Granolah naturally. And to the other guy who replied to you, we don’t know the Heeters’ lifespans, so there’s literally no way we can comment on that right now. So the Dragon might be able to make him “the strongest” in the universe JUST by unlocking his latent potential. (Without reducing his lifespan.)

I think Gas has the potential to be much stronger than Granolah if they make that wish but I think for that type of wish there always has to be some cost

Anyways I don’t know if the Heeters will make that particular wish and maybe Elec is clever enough to come up with something else but I wonder if he is the type of character to use his brother like that in the end.

Well he is a villain. He dose seem to care more about profits than anything, wouldn't surprise me if he Gas got screwed over because of him and whatever wish they make for him.

[JulieYBM]

I hope Dragon Ball Super doesn’t get “cancelled” because of the whole Macki scene xD (Pun intended.)

Sorry, I just HAD to! xD

It won't be. JUMP doesn't care about women at all and the wealthy almost never, ever face consequences for their actions.

Just like in real life creepy men will continue to be able to sexually harass us women in these comics for children and face no consequences because that's what the creators find appropriate and funny for their comic aimed at kids.

[Yuji]

It's not that deep.

[TKA]

It's not that deep.

This is a bad mindset to have in any consumption of art. It's exactly as deep as you allow it to be. You added absolutely nothing of value to the discussion.

This is a chance to have a conversation about the way women are treated in media, and instead you go "shut up, nerd". Trite.

[Yuji]

It's not that deep.

This is a bad mindset to have in any consumption of art. It's exactly as deep as you allow it to be. You added absolutely nothing of value to the discussion.

This is a chance to have a conversation about the way women are treated in media, and instead you go "shut up, nerd". Trite.

I've made the bolded argument several times before but the treatment of women is extrinsic to the actual art itself and unrelated to Dragon Ball. Not to mention those discussions always end up terrible.

[GalaxyBusterBuu]

Still, what do you think the Heeters asked Zuno exactly? Any ideas?

[jd55513]

Still, what do you think the Heeters asked Zuno exactly? Any ideas?

I would attach the panels which support confirmed 5 questions, but I have no idea how lol.

So.
About 5 questions clearly asked.
1. Where are the Saiyans?
2. What is Goku and Vegetas weakness?(Wives and Money)
3. Is their a way to find the Dragon Balls?(Dragon Radar)
4. Are their limits to Dragon Balls?(stone stuff)
5. Food(Oil and Macki)

As for the other ones...
6. Can you tell us more about OG-73?
7. How can we stop Granolah if the Saiyans fail?
8. How can we become the Strongest in the Universe, like Granolah?
9. What is Freeza's weakness?
10.?

[Krillin1994]

I hope Dragon Ball Super doesn’t get “cancelled” because of the whole Macki scene xD (Pun intended.)

Sorry, I just HAD to! xD

It won't be. JUMP doesn't care about women at all and the wealthy almost never, ever face consequences for their actions.

Just like in real life creepy men will continue to be able to sexually harass us women in these comics for children and face no consequences because that's what the creators find appropriate and funny for their comic aimed at kids.

I guess they had Macki call him out on it.

From what I can remember it isn’t like it’s only women he demands a kiss from.

Jaco gives him a kiss when we first meet him. So the act of giving a kiss seems to be a standard offering that he expects from all his visitors regardless of gender to get a question (Zamasu aside who went in with threats)

I think that had oil just gone on his own he would’ve still been asked to kiss and gotten to ask question/s albeit not 10.

Number of questions he gives people as a result of the kiss is down to his own discretion.

The main issue is that his attendant said Zuno wouldn’t accept a kiss from the Oil essentially because Macki was there and a more attractive offer. Which I guess then put pressure on Macki to deliver for her boss.

Though I don’t think a kiss on the cheek in a formal setting with that many around is the problematic thing. It is the response to it about ah feisty women are my type which makes it seem creepier.

That being said I think it’s far from the most egregious display of inappropriateness in dragonball with its attitudes towards women. When compared to other anime/manga a kiss of the cheek from a relatively minor character seems to hardly be indicative of the issues. Look at the likes of Sanji in One Piece and his attitudes/behaviour as one of the leading characters.

I would say Roshi here but think people have discussed him to death on this forum. Admittedly I found all the Roshi antics amusing when I watched DB, but I think it’s more at how ridiculously over the top it was, certainly my upbringing had me completely aware that sort of behaviour in real life was never acceptable. But I can also see how as a cis white heterosexual male I’m privileged enough to have not been marginalised and be on the receiving end of any abuse or injustices.

I think ultimately having Macki call it out as harassment is Toyotaro essentially breaking the 4th wall to say it’s not okay in the real world, but in the context of a not very deep fighting manga to suspend the disbelief.

Zuno can’t really be seen to be a moral person when he is happy to answer questions from people his omniscience would tell him are evil. So I guess it’s not like we’re to assume he’s a good guy.

Would the scene have been less problematic if Oil had given the kiss when Macki told him to, then have the attendant say ‘you as well Macki’

[caire]

Still, what do you think the Heeters asked Zuno exactly? Any ideas?

I would attach the panels which support confirmed 5 questions, but I have no idea how lol.

So.
About 5 questions clearly asked.
1. Where are the Saiyans?
2. What is Goku and Vegetas weakness?(Wives and Money)
3. Is their a way to find the Dragon Balls?(Dragon Radar)
4. Are their limits to Dragon Balls?(stone stuff)
5. Food(Oil and Macki)

As for the other ones...
6. Can you tell us more about OG-73?
7. How can we stop Granolah if the Saiyans fail?
8. How can we become the Strongest in the Universe, like Granolah?
9. What is Freeza's weakness?
10.?

I'm not sure if this was anime-only, when Bulma and Jaco visited Zuno, I swear I recall Bulma asking a rhetorical question and Zuno answering it anyway, since it was still a question. So I'm wondering if Macki's "ever heard of harassment?" counted as a question tbh

[Krillin1994]

Still, what do you think the Heeters asked Zuno exactly? Any ideas?

I would attach the panels which support confirmed 5 questions, but I have no idea how lol.

So.
About 5 questions clearly asked.
1. Where are the Saiyans?
2. What is Goku and Vegetas weakness?(Wives and Money)
3. Is their a way to find the Dragon Balls?(Dragon Radar)
4. Are their limits to Dragon Balls?(stone stuff)
5. Food(Oil and Macki)

As for the other ones...
6. Can you tell us more about OG-73?
7. How can we stop Granolah if the Saiyans fail?
8. How can we become the Strongest in the Universe, like Granolah?
9. What is Freeza's weakness?
10.?

I'm not sure if this was anime-only, when Bulma and Jaco visited Zuno, I swear I recall Bulma asking a rhetorical question and Zuno answering it anyway, since it was still a question. So I'm wondering if Macki's "ever heard of harassment?" counted as a question tbh

Do wonder if though he will be more helpful answering questions of people he likes though. So Bulma he was just being extra pedantic and spiteful. Whereas here if it was a clear unintentional or rhetorical question he will ignore it.

Also I would feel like it would have to be a specific question for Goku’s weakness and a specific one for Vegeta’s.

[Mr Baggins]

It's not that deep.

The point is that sexual harassment isn't something you should ever make light of, especially in a comic aimed at kids. Macki calls him out, but she's ultimately still coerced and the thrust of the scene still portrays it as a gag. It's half-hearted "progress" at best and it's not particularly funny.

There are ways to tackle this subject in fiction. This ain't one of them. If it's going to be a part of Zuno's character and played up in this manner then it's probably best to exclude him from the story altogether.

[Kinokima]

I hope Dragon Ball Super doesn’t get “cancelled” because of the whole Macki scene xD (Pun intended.)

Sorry, I just HAD to! xD

It won't be. JUMP doesn't care about women at all and the wealthy almost never, ever face consequences for their actions.

Just like in real life creepy men will continue to be able to sexually harass us women in these comics for children and face no consequences because that's what the creators find appropriate and funny for their comic aimed at kids.

While I don’t think this particular scene is so bad compared to some others yeah Shueshia is not known for its progressiveness when it comes to gender issues.