"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[jd55513]

I'm a little confused with hakai as a concept.
We've seen things and people getting hakaied into sand without the release of energy mentioned this month, and we can't claim it wasn't hakai because Beerus, vs Zamasu, even yelled 'hakai'.
Seems like it's the go-to technique of the hakaishin when needing to erase someone, it was used by Beerus, Vermouth, and also by Granolah, and what Goku copied vs Zamasu and that boulder vs Moro seemed to be that version. It looks cleaner, you can erase a person or things without getting stuff nearby(like a new manga volume) compromised. Also seems to be a technique that can't be dialed down like the one Vegeta is learning.

But now with this new more explosive variation of hakai, where does the original insta-kill move fit?
this one seems to be harder to pull off, but nowhere near as effective as the original, I choose -and I guess Beerus too- turning Zamasu into sand over blowing him up any day of the week (and neither variation can kill immortals).

I guess the newer hakai is more suited for battle, requiring more focus of the mind, while the older hakai has only one function and might not be as hard to "master".

I don't think you have to say "Hakai" or "Destroy, preform the attack. In BOG, Beerus created orbs of destruction, without any name conventions. Goku can do the Kamehameha without calling it. Etc
Like with UI, there are tiers of the technique, the same can be said for Hakai.

Here is a instance where a God of Destruction, Belmod, does not chant "Hakai" or "Destroy" to preform the attack.
Again I definitely agree that Vegeta is using Hakai, but it appears to be the same type as Gokus. https://t.co/soHchZmjnV

[Alruneia]

One thing I'm not sure anyone has brought up before.

Hakai almost assuredly doesn't require god ki, as we can see Vegeta using it in his base form. I can see this justifying it as an ability the dragon could grant Granolah, as it seemingly granted him both power and abilities to make him the "strongest warrior".

Well, going by what's said in this chapter, the "complete Hakai" is just annihilation of matter. There's nothing inherently magical or divine in that, it's something that can even be done in the real world (I mean, not in this way, but the concept itself exists). So I think it's fine for Vegeta to be able to do it without tapping into god powers, for it to just be a matter of knowing how to do it and being strong enough to do it.

[Koitsukai]

I'm a little confused with hakai as a concept.
We've seen things and people getting hakaied into sand without the release of energy mentioned this month, and we can't claim it wasn't hakai because Beerus, vs Zamasu, even yelled 'hakai'.
Seems like it's the go-to technique of the hakaishin when needing to erase someone, it was used by Beerus, Vermouth, and also by Granolah, and what Goku copied vs Zamasu and that boulder vs Moro seemed to be that version. It looks cleaner, you can erase a person or things without getting stuff nearby(like a new manga volume) compromised. Also seems to be a technique that can't be dialed down like the one Vegeta is learning.

But now with this new more explosive variation of hakai, where does the original insta-kill move fit?
this one seems to be harder to pull off, but nowhere near as effective as the original, I choose -and I guess Beerus too- turning Zamasu into sand over blowing him up any day of the week (and neither variation can kill immortals).

I guess the newer hakai is more suited for battle, requiring more focus of the mind, while the older hakai has only one function and might not be as hard to "master".

I don't think you have to say "Hakai" or "Destroy, preform the attack. In BOG, Beerus created orbs of destruction, without any name conventions. Goku can do the Kamehameha without calling it. Etc
Like with UI, there are tiers of the technique, the same can be said for Hakai.

Here is a instance where a God of Destruction, Belmod, does not chant "Hakai" or "Destroy" to preform the attack.
Again I definitely agree that Vegeta is using Hakai, but it appears to be the same type as Gokus. https://t.co/soHchZmjnV

I didn't say you have to say hakai in order to use it, I said Beerus did so when the technique that turns things into sand was introduced, and that it differs from the one Vegeta is learning because no massive energy was released in the way Beerus explained.

[BWri]

So far Granolah is shaping up to be a neutral like "antagonist" motivated by his vendetta against Freeza. I hope he doesn't go off the deep end like Zamasu but it wouldn't surprise me. It's usually the tournament antagonists that maintain their composure during these arcs. I hope Granolah doesn't become corrupt but the fact that he is now so radically different in power may alter his mindset. Frankly, I'm surprised it was that easy for him to apparently surpass the likes of Majin Buu and presumably Moro like it's nothing.

I wonder this all the time. Plot is the answer, of course.

So the Dragon can't make you more powerful than your latent abilities but a work around this is that it can take your potential from your remaining lives, stack them and give it to your all at once making your powerful but you lose those lives. At the same time the dragon can grant you immortality, ie a infinite amount of life and potential increases. So what happens when you wish for immortality then to become the most powerful person? Can you surpass Zeno? What if Roshi made this wish since he used a phoenix or something to have a long lasting life???

I thought about all of this too lol

[Gt91]

Manga 15 cover HQ

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExKwxn6VcAo ... ame=medium

Do we know which character is on this book's back spine?

Not yet, i think we'll know more when the manga is out (april 2).

[Dragon Wukong]

The reason that Vegeta used Hakai in base, is one of two reasons. Goku and Vegeta, have successfully concealed god ki in their bodies from leaking and transforming( In the Moro arc, when Dende is healing Goku and Vegeta it takes awhile because their level of ki is enormous i.e god ki)
Or the Saiyan beyond god thing from BOG is now back into canon.

It's made extremely explicit in the prior arc that Vegeta doesn't have god ki in his base form. He can't sense Goku while he's using Ultra Instinct (contrariwise, the only reason they would note this is that he can be sensed in his base form, confirming their base forms don't have god ki.)

So far there's no indication, and plenty evidence to the contrary that Hakai would require god ki.

[Torturephile]

I would love to have some stronger opponent than Granola, with some sensible plot as to why.
Granolah might turn out to be this tragic hero the characters might team up with, much like Tapion.

What I really won't like - Granolah goes against Goku and Vegeta and through some more power-ups and deus-ex machinas, he becomes the main villain, engaged in nonsensical battle of brawls spanning countless chapters, before it gets somehow resolved and he learns something like: ''Revenge is not the way, I can see the power of friendship and now I can die, because my time ran out.''

Fingers crossed

Somehow I think that is the most generic Dragon Ball way it'll pan out and the most likely to occur. Cross your toes, too.

[TKA]

Manga 15 cover HQ

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExKwxn6VcAo ... ame=medium

What an ugly cover. This is a case of where "less is more" is needed. Moro's back is just lumps at this point. And his neck isn't really connected right. You can tell a lot of effort went into drawing and coloring this, but it's misplaced effort.

Anyway, the black and white "Justice is Gray" version of the Snyder Cut is even better than the regular version!

[JulieYBM]

I'm just...confused...why is it Gokuu is facing the foreground with Moro coming up from behind? The cover doesn't make much sense to me because of that. I think it's actually rather well done, otherwise.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I'm just...confused...why is it Gokuu is facing the foreground with Moro coming up from behind? The cover doesn't make much sense to me because of that.

I think the lava, rocks, and clouds of dust etc around Moro point this up as a sort of take on that scene in Chapter 64 where he pops out of the ground behind Goku hoping to get the drop on him - only in this, Goku is charging a blast rather than just standing there, which makes a certain amount of sense, in a 'swooshy pretty impact cover' way.

[JulieYBM]

I'm just...confused...why is it Gokuu is facing the foreground with Moro coming up from behind? The cover doesn't make much sense to me because of that.

I think the lava, rocks, and clouds of dust etc around Moro point this up as a sort of take on that scene in Chapter 64 where he pops out of the ground behind Goku hoping to get the drop on him - only in this, Goku is charging a blast rather than just standing there, which makes a certain amount of sense, in a 'swooshy pretty impact cover' way.

Oh gosh, that's what it is. I've forgotten most of this battle. Thanks honey! ♥

[Thani]

Yeah, the facing of anywhere else is to indicate that Goku doesn't need to look at Moro at all, because of UI.

It was pretty clever, I think.

[JewyB]

I called Gas being the main villain in the first page he was introduced. I'm not saying i was right, or anything, but i dont think i posted it anywhere, so his is my claim now, months later!

As for the latest cover, i agree with TKA, its way too much. Goku looks good, in "good Toyo style"(not an insult, good Toyo Goku looks different to good Tori Goku), but Moro just looks so messy, and out of character, weirdly.

Colours are nice tho.

Also i made a minor joke prediction of "The old man Granola lives with will be the big bad, true Toriyama style!" before he was revealed to be namekian or anything, so if that happens, i was serious.

[Skar]

I think the cover looks nice although Moro might look better without the hunched over back. Volume 14 showed Marcarita so this volume might complete her image and next volume a different character appears. I wonder if it'll be Broly or Moro.

[Koitsukai]

I didn't notice it was Moro like when he jumped on Goku through the lava. Looks nice.

What I don't like is Goku's right leg. That knee is just wrong.

[Xeogran]

Man, I hope the arc picks up the pacing from the next month. Granolah's adventures are comfy and all, but looking at it really not much happened the last chapter, event-wise.

Worse of all I can already feel the pattern that either Goku or Vegeta will go first to fight him for the entire chapter, then one "loses" and cliffhanger ends with the latter stepping in. Just like versus Moro.

Please have a different arc structure this time around, Toyotaro. I'm asking nicely

[BWri]

Man, I hope the arc picks up the pacing from the next month. Granolah's adventures are comfy and all, but looking at it really not much happened the last chapter, event-wise.

Worse of all I can already feel the pattern that either Goku or Vegeta will go first to fight him for the entire chapter, then one "loses" and cliffhanger ends with the latter stepping in. Just like versus Moro.

Please have a different arc structure this time around, Toyotaro. I'm asking nicely

I hope so. Surely we're going to see Frieza soon and hopefully he's up to something nefarious. Maybe he's resurrected the Ginyu Force already with some other secret Dragon Balls. I'm hoping for some sort of big shakeup next chapter.

[UpFromTheSkies]

I'm just...confused...why is it Gokuu is facing the foreground with Moro coming up from behind? The cover doesn't make much sense to me because of that. I think it's actually rather well done, otherwise.

It looks like Goku is about to turn around and hit Moro with a kamehameha because he knows he's coming up behind him.

[LoganForkHands73]

I've seen some harsh criticism for the "three years" plot beat in regards to its similarity to other anime franchises and how inconsequential the trope usually is to any narrative it's used in. I definitely drew those comparisons too while reading, three years almost seemed too lenient.

However, there could be a way to make this worthwhile. Judging by the timeframe, we're rapidly coming up to the "End of Z". Without predicting too much of what will happen, let's say Granola survives the arc (as his name implies) and accomplishes his goal of killing Freeza. Perhaps by the time we skip forward, we'll see Granola on the precipice of his premature death and see if it was truly worth it in the end. Goku will probably pity him as a waste of talent.

[Grimlock]

I would commend Toyotaro if this three-year timeskip comes to fruition. To be honest, it's not like I expect any of them (Toriyama, Toyotaro and who else is involved) to know precisely that this saga takes place in AGE 781 (especially after the mistake in Dragon Ball Super Broly).

Well, a sign that they are actually paying attention to this detail would be Toyotaro not make Goku meet Bulma. We'll see how things play out.