"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:26 pm

Did anyone remember what was Jiren wish on the anime? Cause I don't. In the manga I think it was better to be releaved without making any mystery about... Okay it's kinda of a cliché wanting to ressurect his master, but it serves shows a more human side from him.

Also look that:
Noah wrote: I predict the next chapter to be rushed, probably the most rushed we ever read on this promotional material, but this time will be enjoyable, with Toyotaro putting a lot of effort on the fighting choreography between Goku and Jiren, the dialogue will remain as the usual exposition dump, but the conclusion will be somewhat satisfactory.
Just like I predicted :lol:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:13 pm

Rakurai wrote: Whereas Toyotaro slimmed Goku down noticeably for both SSG and UI. Maybe it's to follow Toriyama's character sheets more, Idk. I was down for that for SSG since it's a unique transformation (even though there's no precedent for the slimming down reason in universe, out of universe it's obv Toriyama's art style), but for UI it's pretty pointless.
I disagree , slimming him fits well into u.i technique , faster reflex movements suits better on that body.
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:22 pm

prince212 wrote:
Rakurai wrote: Whereas Toyotaro slimmed Goku down noticeably for both SSG and UI. Maybe it's to follow Toriyama's character sheets more, Idk. I was down for that for SSG since it's a unique transformation (even though there's no precedent for the slimming down reason in universe, out of universe it's obv Toriyama's art style), but for UI it's pretty pointless.
I disagree , slimming him fits well into u.i technique , faster reflex movements suits better on that body.
Slimmer body doesn't means faster or more agile. I had a martial arts master who was very musclier, but could move like a ballerina and ran circles around people who were smaller than him. The whole smaller equals faster is mostly a fiction trope.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by IM21 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:26 pm

if the next chapter is gonna be the last one i can see Vegeta getting ringed out in the first 10 pages. Then Frieza and Goku will fight Jiren for 15 pages while eliminating Jiren and themselfs. Just when everyone will think it's a tie, #17 will appear. The last 15-20 pages will be the wish and ending the arc. With the Broly movie coming i can see Toyo hinting at it in the last pages of the chapter, of course, if the manga is even gonna continue.

Id actually would wanna see the finale last for at least 2 chapters, but i think the Broly stuff is starting in December, so I think ToP is ending in a month.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:49 pm

Rakurai wrote: That char design was literally taken from his old SSG Goku design for BoG and recolored white.
Incorrect. Aside from more subtle indicators like the clothing wrinkles being different, the stoic facial expression (which is what I've been talking about) is completely new.

Toriyama obviously takes character design shortcuts when he can, but my point was that he clearly had some kind of distinct vision for the aesthetic of the original concept.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:13 pm

kudo6000 wrote: Isn’t the term used in media, too?
No. Master UI is purely a fan name. It's just called UI. The incomplete form has always been called UI Omen/Signs. Even in Toriyama's notes UI is given the title UI (Complete), never mastered.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by reecehoward » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:16 pm

Pros- On its own, this chapter is pretty good. The action was fun, although I feel after reading through some old Dragonball manga that Toyo could dial his paneling down and increase the panel size of his "big" moments. The dialogue was pretty good. The art was some of his best in a loooong time. Lastly, it was good to see Jiren do something other than just punch.lol

Cons- Jiren never feels like a badass throughout the entirety of the ToP, this chapter seals the coffin and UI Goku proceeded to bury it. Too many reaction panels, good lord I don't think I've ever read soooo many utterly useless panels in a manga EVER! Too much exposition, not everything needs to be said and there were a few instances where I shook my head because I didn't need something spelled out.

Overall this month's chapter was solid. It was the most fun I had reading the manga...for some time now. Unfortunately, when put with the whole of the ToP, it falls short as well because Jiren never got the build up that makes this climax worthwhile. It's written as if all Goku needed to learn was to dodge and never is it addressed that there was a HUGE gap in power between the two and that UI brought him to that realm. Like is it a technique(like kaioken) or transformation(like super saiyan)? I called it about this fight being so one sided, could be seen as kind of boring to some. Luckily, Toyotaro at least had Jiren adapt towards the end, which made it a lot less jarring.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:18 pm

HeroR wrote:
prince212 wrote:
Rakurai wrote: Whereas Toyotaro slimmed Goku down noticeably for both SSG and UI. Maybe it's to follow Toriyama's character sheets more, Idk. I was down for that for SSG since it's a unique transformation (even though there's no precedent for the slimming down reason in universe, out of universe it's obv Toriyama's art style), but for UI it's pretty pointless.
I disagree , slimming him fits well into u.i technique , faster reflex movements suits better on that body.
Slimmer body doesn't means faster or more agile. I had a martial arts master who was very musclier, but could move like a ballerina and ran circles around people who were smaller than him. The whole smaller equals faster is mostly a fiction trope.
Of course slimmer doesn’t mean more agile , but helps and fits well . It,s not fiction , it’s a reality, that doesn’t mean hyper muscle can’t be agile , but usually doesn’t help
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Pokesamus217 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:28 pm

TKA wrote:Observation: When the manga accurately depicts what a battle royale is supposed to be, people got angry and said it was not good.

Now that it's pretty much just a typical dragonball fight with one antagonist vs everyone, people are thinking it's good.
It’s almost like Toyo can’t write a battle royal worth a damn.....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:31 pm

HeroR wrote:
kudo6000 wrote: Isn’t the term used in media, too?
No. Master UI is purely a fan name. It's just called UI. The incomplete form has always been called UI Omen/Signs. Even in Toriyama's notes UI is given the title UI (Complete), never mastered.
Mastered UI is the name given to the form in marketing, though clearly it wasn't what Toriyama intended.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:34 pm

prince212 wrote: Of course slimmer doesn’t mean more agile , but helps and fits well . It,s not fiction , it’s a reality, that doesn’t mean hyper muscle can’t be agile , but usually doesn’t help
It really doesn't. It's more of a case that fiction had warp people reality.
Kanassa wrote:
HeroR wrote:
kudo6000 wrote: Isn’t the term used in media, too?
No. Master UI is purely a fan name. It's just called UI. The incomplete form has always been called UI Omen/Signs. Even in Toriyama's notes UI is given the title UI (Complete), never mastered.
Mastered UI is the name given to the form in marketing, though clearly it wasn't what Toriyama intended.

It wasn't even marketing. It was only called 'mastered' in the episode title. Even then, the title was 'Mastering UI'. So yeah, Master UI is a fan term that has never been used anywhere, not even in marketing.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:45 pm

HeroR wrote:
prince212 wrote: Of course slimmer doesn’t mean more agile , but helps and fits well . It,s not fiction , it’s a reality, that doesn’t mean hyper muscle can’t be agile , but usually doesn’t help
It really doesn't. It's more of a case that fiction had warp people reality.
Kanassa wrote:
HeroR wrote:
No. Master UI is purely a fan name. It's just called UI. The incomplete form has always been called UI Omen/Signs. Even in Toriyama's notes UI is given the title UI (Complete), never mastered.
Mastered UI is the name given to the form in marketing, though clearly it wasn't what Toriyama intended.

It wasn't even marketing. It was only called 'mastered' in the episode title. Even then, the title was 'Mastering UI'. So yeah, Master UI is a fan term that has never been used anywhere, not even in marketing.
And in the games and in toy-thingies
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:

Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:50 pm

Kanassa wrote: And in the games and in toy-thingies
What game or toy called UI Master UI?

In Xenoverse 2 UI Goku is called Goku (UI).
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by kudo6000 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:06 pm

That’s interesting to hear. Won’t be using that name anymore.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:28 pm

Kanassa wrote: Mastered UI is the name given to the form in marketing, though clearly it wasn't what Toriyama intended.
It was never used in merchandise or in games. HeroR is right, it's a fan term.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:43 pm

Pokesamus217 wrote: It’s almost like Toyo can’t write a battle royal worth a damn.....
Well, that's one way to interpret my post, I guess.

If you've paid any attention to this thread whatsoever, you'd realize that every month, complaints always boil down to "not epic enough," because eliminations have come almost exclusively from characters being blindsided, cut off, or tricked, with no time being given for "epic" one on one fights. That is the very premise of a battle royale: a battle royale is the only place where you can see jobbers beating main eventers.

Now that it's just a typical antagonist vs all Dragonball fight, people are getting their expectations of what Dragonball is "supposed" to be met. You're getting your knock-down drag out brawl, where characters power up, scream, get tossed around etc. Obviously, this couldn't have happened while respecting the premise of the battle royale, but now that the arena is limited, it can be done.

So no, it's not that Toyotaro "can't write a battle royale," but rather that he does it too well.
HeroR wrote:Slimmer body doesn't means faster or more agile.
You miss the point.

Goku slimming down in God and UI is meant to convey how relaxed he is in both forms. He's not tense, there are no veins bulging, and there is no intense aura. The whole point of Toriyama going in that direction in terms of design is to make them stand out from the typical dragonball fare, while highlighting these qualities.

As for your anecdote... real life has very little to do with dragonball's mechanics. Generally, increased muscle mass means increased power. Usain Bolt has some thick, muscular legs and those facilitate his speed. However, in Dragonball, we saw that getting bulky did the opposite: it made you slower. SS2 isn't anywhere near as big as SS Grade 2 or SS Grade 3. Not even SS3 is, and both are leagues faster.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mister_Popo » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:48 pm

I like how 'Omen' really is an omen in the manga, Omen and Completed UI just transit very well.
In the anime it's rather an inbetween-form because he uses it so much before CUI.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:06 pm

HeroR wrote:
prince212 wrote: Of course slimmer doesn’t mean more agile , but helps and fits well . It,s not fiction , it’s a reality, that doesn’t mean hyper muscle can’t be agile , but usually doesn’t help
It really doesn't. It's more of a case that fiction had warp people reality.
Kanassa wrote:
HeroR wrote:
No. Master UI is purely a fan name. It's just called UI. The incomplete form has always been called UI Omen/Signs. Even in Toriyama's notes UI is given the title UI (Complete), never mastered.
Mastered UI is the name given to the form in marketing, though clearly it wasn't what Toriyama intended.

It wasn't even marketing. It was only called 'mastered' in the episode title. Even then, the title was 'Mastering UI'. So yeah, Master UI is a fan term that has never been used anywhere, not even in marketing.
It's really the most irritating fan-made terminology that was made. The fandom perpetuates this name of "Mastered Ultra Instinct" completely on their own and then they complain that Goku was portrayed as mastering it but can never use it at will, when they started that fallacy in the first place.

Really "Completed Ultra Instinct" is far more accurate. Goku just learned how to use Ultra Instinct to attack AND defend and that's when his hair turned silver.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:22 pm

In the real world, bulky = strong, lean = fast. Both are muscular, just in different ways. But that's not even the point...Toriyama simply depicts the gods as strong but skinny. Super Saiyan God and Migatte no Gokui are still muscular, it's just lean muscle. Ki > biceps.

Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't post this:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by IM21 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:47 am

Toyo's Bardock doesn't look that bad.

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