"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Grimlock]

But if we talk about past events in real life, we probably do the same though.

Not major events. We don't say "World War 1 happened between 1910 and 1920", no. We know exactly when it happened. I believe race extinction is a major event in-universe so it really doesn't make sense for everyone involved to not know when it happened exactly and to keep rounding up that much years.

Anyway, technically we might even be already in Age 781 by now.. Attack on Cereal maybe 736-739 (depending on if the actual destruction is Age 737 or 739)..
So something between 42 and 45 years... and they rounded in both directions..
That's my take on it so far. Let's see if we get more clarity at some point.

A fairly reasonable and good take, yeah. But we really need a confirmation on that, otherwise it's just yet another issue we have to put up with.

The destruction of planet Vegeta happened in AGE 739, so the assault on the planet could take place anywhere between AGE 735 (as Freeza seems to be involved, since Granola only talks about him) and AGE 738, because Bardock was on another assault just before Dragon Ball Minus, I'm considering the time period it takes for space trips.

[JulieYBM]

Toyo-tarou writing fan fiction is actually a plus. The issue is that he's restricted by the companies he works for and any sense of personal restrictions on what stories to tell.

[BWri]

Hot take Incoming: Akira Toriyama was carried by his editors. The Buu Saga shows that. Its the only arc in Z thats written by an unrestricted Toriyama and its Trash. We know Toyotaro is capable of good writing so if you gave Toyotaro more freedom while hiring a good editor you'd get a better manga.

It's not even a hot take at this point. I've been saying this for a few years now and if you look at the interviews, this is pretty clear. Carried is probably too strong because AT is truly talented, but editors, particularly Torishima-san guided him to create his best material such as the tournaments in early DB. The series is legitimately missing this guidance.

I've also been lobbying for a series loremaster to keep track of the details. Structure is nice, especially when it helps you avoid simple immersion breaking errors.

[Jinto]

Hot take Incoming: Akira Toriyama was carried by his editors. The Buu Saga shows that. Its the only arc in Z thats written by an unrestricted Toriyama and its Trash. We know Toyotaro is capable of good writing so if you gave Toyotaro more freedom while hiring a good editor you'd get a better manga.

Its time for Toriyama to go tbh. He's dragging down the franchise.

Toriyama is a wild writer not a bad one, wild as in "sometimes genius, sometimes controversial" and the guys knows his audience.

DBS writing is nothing like Toriyama's writing, it's too safe, too standard almost like a western comicbook following a statu- quo introducing new power but nothing too "game changing".

[Grimlock]

Oh boy, this is going to be a long month, isn't it? Monaito's reaction upon seeing Goku and Vegeta's reaction upon hearing "Saiyan/Bardock".

According to Dragon Ball Minus/Movie 1, it seems Vegeta and Bardock knew each other, as both of them might have been on a mission together, so this is a perfect opportunity for Vegeta to also bring up some information.

Can we please just skip to October 21st now?

[Trouser]

Next chapter may be finally interesting with that Bardock revelation. I'd love some flashback with Bardock and his crew WITHOUT Goku and Vegeta, something like Trunks vs Dabura and Babidi.
Vegeta irritates me. Goku is not a retard here, who would guess... Getting his face beaten must have activated his brain.

[PurestEvil]

That chapter was pretty enjoyable ngl. It’s got a lot more going on and I was glad to see both Vegeta and Goku get a second shot at Granolah. I find it funny, though, that GOKU is the smartest person of the three. DB SUPER GOKU.
The flashback to Granolah’s mom was an intriguing insight, too. Vegeta telling him that he is repeating history was another highlight, it was exactly what I was thinking all along. Although one must ask why the Sugarian mother and child are still in their home when the city was evacuated...
I just hope Toyotarou doesn’t mess up the Bardock reveal. I can take him being a caring father, but being an altruist? I hope not...
I also hope we get to see the heeters conduct their plan next time.

[Gt91]

Next chapter may be finally interesting with that Bardock revelation. I'd love some flashback with Bardock and his crew WITHOUT Goku and Vegeta, something like Trunks vs Dabura and Babidi.
Vegeta irritates me. Goku is not a retard here, who would guess... Getting his face beaten must have activated his brain.

I agree with almost everything, expecially the part about Goku ahahah.

Yes! A whole chapter about Bardock would be great for me! Maybe with something more about the Heeters in the end.

Oh and Vegeta knows something about Bardock. Brace yourselves.

[Jinto]

Well...chapter 76 is a good chapter.

[goku the krump dancer]

This is the first chapter I've thoroughly enjoyed in quite a while and I'm glad the story finally seems to be moving forward. I especially like how Vegeta was trying to convince himself that he's still his old Saiyan/Namek arc self in order to get the full use of the Hakai powers but it seems much like how he critiques Granolah on not being too adept to his new power, he is very much the same way.

I smell a tag team Hakai coming in the future.

[DiscountDabi]

Next chapter may be finally interesting with that Bardock revelation. I'd love some flashback with Bardock and his crew WITHOUT Goku and Vegeta, something like Trunks vs Dabura and Babidi.
Vegeta irritates me. Goku is not a retard here, who would guess... Getting his face beaten must have activated his brain.

I agree with almost everything, expecially the part about Goku ahahah.

Yes! A whole chapter about Bardock would be great for me! Maybe with something more about the Heeters in the end.

Oh and Vegeta knows something about Bardock. Brace yourselves.

They must've had some kind of Interaction at some point. When Gine said Raditz was paired with Vegeta Bardock said "I'd hate to be stuck on a ship with what one."

So clearly they've met before.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Similar to Chapter 74, I loved Vegeta's writing here. It took long enough, but he finally pointed out the obvious that Granolah killing the rest of the Saiyans was just repeating his past.

I liked how Vegeta admitted that he wasn't able to let go of all the other feelings like Beerus taught him, and that's why he wanted to face Granolah alone, that's why he felt it was fair that Granolah blamed all the Saiyans and that's why he accepted death as the Saiyans' fate (and his fate) in the end. These last 3 chapters for me have been the best Vegeta has ever been written in Super. The chapter was also great for Granolah. He was becoming a very irritating character with his blindness towards his revenge lately (he was being too shallow after his good introduction at the beginning of the arc), but he is now finally seeing the consequences of his actions, as in the scene with the Sugarians. I also liked the way he was willing to die along with Vegeta just to end all the suffering he was feeling at once, even if it meant giving up his revenge against Frieza, which he was so obsessed with. Plus more flashbacks about his past. I feel like it adds some layer to his character

Overall great chapter

[TKA]

The plot is very linear. Exactly what you'd expect to happen, happens. Probably shouldn't have showed his hand so early in the arc by having Bardock appear. Just all very predictable.

But at least a theme is starting to shine through. Needing to let go of past trauma to move on. Both Vegeta and Granolah. But is Toyotaro willing to confront Goku's trauma? That would fundamentally alter the series, since it's a trauma Goku has no recollection of. Or he could always just play it off comedically with Goku saying he doesn't really care about any of the past stuff, which would also be acceptable and more predictable.

Goku's answer to his saiyan heritage has always been "I don't care about that stuff". He only uses that because it's a culture he never knew. His trauma as a child robbed him of the memories of the parents he was crying for. Granolah is the opposite. His trauma has kept him locked in that moment where the saiyans took everything from him; never able to grow past it. Then between both of these you have Vegeta. Vegeta, who freed himself from the shackles of Saiyan culture and embraced those around him. His issue has been shown to be that while he's now at peace with himself, the wrongs of his people still plague him. Where Goku and Granolah's traumas are within, Vegeta's is without.

But I digress.

Not really interested in any of this at the moment.

[Mr Baggins]

This chapter is a good example that not all fighting chapters have to be as bland as the last few. I think it does an immaculate job of balancing the action with some insight into Granolah, interesting character interactions, solid theming and some story progression.

It just rings a little hollow at this point because we should have had this months ago.

[TKA]

I don't find this particularly compelling because Vegeta's growth in regard to his relation to saiyan culture felt as complete as it could get by the end of the Boo arc. This is another facet of it, sure, but it doesn't feel unique enough so as to be justified in re-exploring.

[Jiren The Alpha]

Toyotarou copying a panel from the original manga again....nothing new, but entertaining chapter, just don't get how Granola's attack would have killed him too.

[batistabus]

Really enjoyed the chapter.

Some think Bardock saving people makes him more special, and thus more contrived/less interesting, compared to the original Toei version. While I really enjoy the original Bardock episodes, I don't know how you could say that version of Bardock wasn't special. He can see the future. He has an unusually high battle power, which undermines Goku surpassing his rank.

Legends of the Saiyans (and Toei filler) always paint them as ruthless barbarians. While some Saiyans certainly fit that description, the Super era has shown us a different side to the culture. There are non-combatants. Even Nappa was less ruthless compared to Vegeta. Yes, Saiyans are responsible for heinous crimes, but not every individual fits that mold. You could compare this to real-world warring civilizations, if you like.

Do I prefer the Minus version of the character? Not yet, but I don't think it ruins DB like some seem to, and I appreciate the layers it adds to our understanding of the Saiyans.

Also, we don't know why Bardock spared Granolah and Monaito.

But is Toyotaro willing to confront Goku's trauma? That would fundamentally alter the series, since it's a trauma Goku has no recollection of. Or he could always just play it off comedically with Goku saying he doesn't really care about any of the past stuff, which would also be acceptable and more predictable.

Goku's answer to his saiyan heritage has always been "I don't care about that stuff". He only uses that because it's a culture he never knew. His trauma as a child robbed him of the memories of the parents he was crying for. Granolah is the opposite. His trauma has kept him locked in that moment where the saiyans took everything from him; never able to grow past it. Then between both of these you have Vegeta. Vegeta, who freed himself from the shackles of Saiyan culture and embraced those around him. His issue has been shown to be that while he's now at peace with himself, the wrongs of his people still plague him. Where Goku and Granolah's traumas are within, Vegeta's is without.

Good analysis. I wonder if Goku accepting "Kakarot" is any indication.

[UpFromTheSkies]

Bardocks team probably got dropped on the planet and were transformed into great apes, so they were out of control and didn't really see what they were doing, but at some point Bardock reverted back to his normal form, saw what was going on and decided to at least save Granolah. Maybe he shielded him and Monaito until the carnage was over, apoligozed, explained they were forced into doing this by Freeza, and then left with the other Saiyans.

[Mr Baggins]

I don't find this particularly compelling because Vegeta's growth in regard to his relation to saiyan culture felt as complete as it could get by the end of the Boo arc. This is another facet of it, sure, but it doesn't feel unique enough so as to be justified in re-exploring.

I can see where you're coming from here. I'm cool with it though.

Vegeta's character development will never be as compelling as OG DB, but I think if viewed through the lens of an extraneous midquel premise like Super, it works. While Moro's arc also explores a bit more of Vegeta, it doesn't pretend to be significant growth. Pretty much all of these arcs have felt more like bonus material to Dragon Ball rather than a full-blown sequel with all the same twists and turns and major character milestones you'd get from the original manga, but it does what it can within those constraints.

Super's biggest development is primarily reserved for the guest characters within each story arc, which is more or less what I'd expect from a subseries like this.

[AndLad92]

Good chapter, I wouldn't say great chapter, but good chapter and at least a necessary chapter.
With that, I mean that this chapter and the 4 chapters before, is about Goku and Vegeta fighting Granolah, without much story telling, more or less. It also means that when DBS manga volume 17 comes out, that book is all about fighting matches against Granolah. I think it can be a bit too much focus almost entirely on fighting. Hopefully it gets funnier and more meaningful to read, when you're able to read it in all of it's entirety, like many of you say too. But as a monthly manga, I think the latest chapters are getting a bit one-sided thematically. Don't misunderstand me, I love getting new DB material, and if having a lot of chapters focusing almost only on fighting, means getting more new DB material, at least for a while, fine by me. It's just if I were to decide the content of the latest chapters, I would have liked it a bit different

By necessary, I mean that in this chapter, we're getting some details, that I needed at least.
One of these things is Vegeta's cognition that he can't put behind all the character development he have gotten since the saiyan arc. I love Vegeta's new form, but I didn't like how he said he didn't care about the fate of his saiyan race and how he subverted back to his saiyan saga unfeeling self. This chapter proved that Vegeta indeed have gone through his character development and grown as a character that has feelings. I like that.
Furthermore, Granolah is slowly, but steadily acknowledging he is attacking the wrong people and is just repeating his own history by fighting Goku and Vegeta. Great to see some more from Granolah's past! And I can't wait the see what Bardock did and if Vegeta has something to say about this.