"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PsionicWarrior » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:56 am

Oh come on, Toriyama would never say such a thing because it would make literally no sense for him to say so. When I say 'by any means' I keep factual, not trying to do absolutes and imaginary 'what if' scenarios. :)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:08 am

Zephyr wrote:
PsionicWarrior wrote:When you look at the franchise GT cannot be be canon by any means, as 1) he was not behind it and 2) the very existence of Super makes it impossible.
So if Toriyama literally said "GT is canon", that wouldn't mean anything?
Or if Toei connected everything once Toriyama's done ?

GT was the manga's continuation for the longest time before BOG seemingly replaced it so for all we know Toei could replace Super once Toriyama's done and give us a 3rd continuation, something that isn't "canon" to both.

If they went ahead and replaced GT, then Super being "canon" now may change in the future so until things are cleared up, the original manga is the only canon as I doubt they'll do something like replace the Buu arc.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OhHiRenan » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:11 am

GT was the anime’s continuation, not the manga’s. Yes, they’re the same story, but the anime and manga clearly have their own continuities and GT follows the former.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:29 am

The only continuation of the manga is Dragon Ball Online, through the fact that it uses manga-only events, characters, colors and statement by Akira Toriyama.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cipher » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:32 am

sintzu wrote:GT was the manga's continuation for the longest time before BOG seemingly replaced it so for all we know Toei could replace Super once Toriyama's done and give us a 3rd continuation, something that isn't "canon" to both.
Minor nitpick, but as mentioned above, GT was only ever the anime's continuation. Several anime-only elements play key roles, such as the Tsufurujin, the divine water, and the anime's interpretation of Hell. If they intended it to apply to the manga as well, they could easily have avoided those bits (which pull from the version Japanese audiences would have been less familiar with anyway, given the availability of the manga and the lack of home releases for the TV show at the time).

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:46 am

Cipher wrote:Minor nitpick, but as mentioned above, GT was only ever the anime's continuation.
It doesn't matter where it took place, for the longest time GT was what followed the Buu arc but now it's Super's events. We know from the new interview that Super's last episode might be setting up future events so it'll probably be like that for awhile but once Toriyama's done they could've very easily give us a 3rd continuation that's set after Buu but desn't take GT or Super into account.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:58 am

Zephyr wrote:
PsionicWarrior wrote:When you look at the franchise GT cannot be be canon by any means, as 1) he was not behind it and 2) the very existence of Super makes it impossible.
So if Toriyama literally said "GT is canon", that wouldn't mean anything?
It'd be extremely sloppy and nonsensical since DBS being in the timeline nullifies most of GT
GT is an alternate continuation of the anime. I have no idea why suddenly some of you are trying to fit it in with DBS and Toriyama's personal timeline, when we went years acknowledging it never fit with the Toriyama timeline

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PsionicWarrior » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:15 am

Grimlock wrote:The only continuation of the manga is Dragon Ball Online, through the fact that it uses manga-only events, characters, colors and statement by Akira Toriyama.
I would say the continuation of the manga (DB) is the manga (DBS) and the continuation of the anime (DB) is the anime (DBS), aaaaaand BoG is somewhere there too lol
:crazy:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:20 am

PsionicWarrior wrote:I would say the continuation of the manga (DB) is the manga (DBS) and the continuation of the anime (DB) is the anime (DBS), aaaaaand BoG is somewhere there too lol
:crazy:
All of them take place before AGE 784/28º World Martial Arts Tournament, therefore, none of them fits in the "continuation of the series" category. Also, we don't know if Toyotaro's Dragon Ball Super takes place in the original manga continuity (as Dragon Ball Online does), there's also Toriyama's outlines itself to take into consideration here (I'm not saying it is not canonical though, as Dragon Ball does not have an official canon established).

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:50 am

Grimlock wrote:
PsionicWarrior wrote:I would say the continuation of the manga (DB) is the manga (DBS) and the continuation of the anime (DB) is the anime (DBS), aaaaaand BoG is somewhere there too lol
:crazy:
All of them take place before AGE 784/28º World Martial Arts Tournament, therefore, none of them fits in the "continuation of the series" category. Also, we don't know if Toyotaro's Dragon Ball Super takes place in the original manga continuity (as Dragon Ball Online does), there's also Toriyama's outlines itself to take into consideration here (I'm not saying it is not canonical though, as Dragon Ball does not have an official canon established).
The outline does not matter in the slightest. Only finished projects do.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:10 pm

A "Toriyama purist" would disagree with that.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:26 pm

Grimlock wrote:A "Toriyama purist" would disagree with that.
And if they follow that logic, then they might as well call 16, 17, and 18 non canon, since they weren't in the first outline for the Android arc. Or anything suggested by his editors

It's a ridiculous notion and I'll never understand it. The outline is just that, an outline. Toriyama still approves what makes it to the final, finished product.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ToshioWrites » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:40 pm

So manga probably will leak on Friday?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:41 pm

ToshioWrites wrote:So manga probably will leak on Friday?
Saturday/Sunday is a safer bet unless it leaks early

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Zephyr » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:35 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:Oh come on, Toriyama would never say such a thing because it would make literally no sense for him to say so. When I say 'by any means' I keep factual, not trying to do absolutes and imaginary 'what if' scenarios. :)
OLKv3 wrote:It'd be extremely sloppy and nonsensical since DBS being in the timeline nullifies most of GT
GT is an alternate continuation of the anime. I have no idea why suddenly some of you are trying to fit it in with DBS and Toriyama's personal timeline, when we went years acknowledging it never fit with the Toriyama timeline
I'm not trying to fit GT anywhere. I'm just saying, Toriyama can decide whatever he wants, and he's not beholden to anyone's rules on continuity, even if said rules make sense. I know you guys haven't been around here very long, but the Battle of Gods and Resurrection F threads were filled to the brim with people complaining about things happening that made no sense. It has happened, and it can happen again, and if it does, dozens of you will be complaining and unable to do anything about it.

I don't care one way or the other if GT is canon, but the fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter why you think it can't be, none of that would stop Toriyama were he so inclined. The fandom's made up rules have a consistent historical tendency to be unceremoniously broken.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PsionicWarrior » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:13 pm

I get your point but I don't get where you're getting at.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Zephyr » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:19 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:I get your point but I don't get where you're getting at.
Come again?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PsionicWarrior » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:24 pm

You tell me Toriyama can do whatever he wants and that whatever people think doesn't matter. So? Where are you going with this?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Zephyr » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:48 pm

Oh, my bad.

My point: since canon is subject to his whims, and said whims can defy any and all reason, discussions about GT's canonicity (or lack thereof) are a complete waste of time.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Exline » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:12 pm

LightBing wrote:
Exline wrote: I don't think its too much of a daunting task to try and give certain characters some moments. I'm talking about interesting interactions, like Cabba being defeated by Frieza for his disdain for Saiyans. A unique elimination because of Frieza's experience with them. Or that Maji Kayo guy, who was seen doing well against goku, and overpowering Dyspo, but then Jiren enters and easily knocks him out. Pretty sure that would take a couple pages to do. Toyotaro has plenty of time to wrap up the arc, I don't understand why he would need to rush it.

I was not trying to imply we should get serious character development for all 80 fighters, I was trying to convey that the competitors not from the 3 main universes should be used in a certain way to give us a reason to care about them when they are erased. The impact of a Universe being erased would be meaningless if we didn't feel for those characters. That is why U9's erasure was so unsettling.



Btw, When you say 8 important characters, did you mean the final 8? (Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Android 17, Frieza + Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo)?

If anything, I'm hoping the final 8/10 is characters from at least different universes, mostly U7, U6, and U11. It'd be an interesting set up imo instead of having those two universes showdown again.
Those type of interactions would be great and I'm expecting them but only on some characters. This not to break the rhythm of the rumble. Ideally we get that for 2 or some characters at minimum per Universe. More and you might start to drag the story, forcing contrivances in battle to explain why characters are standing around or not finishing their opponents.

I think we are not supposed to feel the death of each Universe. They should server as a doom countdown which ramps up the sense of urgency and panic until Universes with characters we are more knowledge about start going, like Universe 6. We aren't supposed to care about most of them.

What I had in mind, ignoring Universe 7 team:
Large(ish) Role:
Toppo, Jiren and Dyspo.
Caulifla, Hit, Kale, Cabba and Frost.
Ribrianne.
The Robot trio and their leader.
The Chameleon and the small guy.
Trio de Danger.
Someone from Universe 10?

Then you'd have some characters with cool techniques that are quickly dispatched, gag characters and such.

The rest are bodies.
I understand your point about having too many characters sure can drag a story. But there should be little background info given to us by these characters that gives us an idea of what their universe is like before they die.

I also get how doing this type of tournament on Manga may be very difficult, but I'm sure some characters can be fleshed out to the point where they give us something hinting towards their Universe.
Things I want to see are situations involving characters like that Yardrat, or Vegeta talking with that Tuffle. Maybe the Tuffles in Universe 2 were able to defeat the Saiyans in his Universe.
I'm fine with certain eliminations being for comedic effect, but wasting potential characters is an idea I am not a fan of. At least give these characters something interesting about them so ti doesn't feel that they are wasting precious panels over a half-assed elimination.

I also love your interpretation of this arc and the demise of the other Universes. Never saw it that way haha. I like the emotional feelings that are brought out when a Universe is erased. It at least makes them memorable in some way.

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