"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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HeroR
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:48 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:14 pm
HeroR wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:10 am

He didn't spam Blue, he uses in short bursts to get stuff done. Remember, the average episode of the TOP lasted a minute. He also only started having stamina issue after Jiren beat him up in 110. Before then, he had no stamina issue. He also got rag doll as a Super Saiyan 2 and wasn't even hurt at the end of the whole thing. As for the rocks, that was Vegeta's idea.

We saw it when Goku sparred with Gohan in Epsoide 90 (https://youtu.be/pBATkV8kV2Q?t=62) and even his fight with the U9 dog when he pointed out the flaw of him growing so big by absorbing his energy (https://youtu.be/uwZUDu_sbzs?t=27). That and it's how he dealt with one of the madams from U2.
https://youtu.be/-_yNmOJpy94?t=89

Or his tag team fight with Cali and Kale in 114:
https://youtu.be/HauUCgQaDt0?t=829

Or how he nearly rung out Jiren in 123:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUN1_uNqHuY

Goku in the anime teamed up several times with people other than Vegeta such as 17, 18, and Frieza. Goku also teamed up with Hit in 114 and didn't back down unlike the manga. To name a few:

https://youtu.be/bwVkGKbzI9w?t=11
https://youtu.be/mMafWxhKiMc?t=145
https://youtu.be/rEUuaoo1fCk?t=32
https://youtu.be/zTqYiuwzICg?t=93

Saying that Goku was more dumb muscle than his manga counterpart is simply not true. In fact, your post reads like you haven't seen the TOP in the anime in awhile. Especially when he has more teamwork under him than manga Goku who only teamed up with Vegeta and Hit, when Goku worked with his entire team at several points.

Beerus wasn't in danger since Zamasu in the manga didn't kill Beerus, Dabura did that.
Whis literally told us that SSB heavily drains stamina after Shin wondering why they weren't going Blue. And he still used it a whole bunch of times going against Whis' suggestive narrative. Nowhere in the narrative did it imply Goku was using it in "short bursts" to conserve stamina. It felt more like a choice by the writer of the episode.

He didn't team up with Hit. They took on individual Pride Troopers and Hit didn't even want to team up with him. In fact, Hit took his main opponent Dyspo. Goku showed no brilliant strategy when he just literally ran through those Pride Trooper bombs using SSB. But he did use that SSG-SSB switcheroo which did show some strategy on his part. Although that was taken from the manga itself.

There was no teaming up against the male U2 warriors. They all fought individual opponents.

I did mention Caulifla, and also meant by extension Kale too.

Fair enough, I forgot about the finale with the coordination between him, 17, and Frieza. But anything with Vegeta doesn't count as Whis said they were so out of sync that not even Jiren could predict them. That's not strategy on his part.

Of course Beerus was in danger. Beerus knew from FTrunks that Black was privy to the life-death bond between a Kaioshin and a GoD. He asked Shin about it, Shin led him to Zamasu. Beerus was only acting for his own self-preservation, not for the sake of doing his job properly. He doesn't meddle otherwise. Nothing has changed.
Whis explained why Goku and Vegeta just go Blue and smack everyone in the tournament, not that they couldn't go Blue at all. I mean, Goku went Blue to escape an hold an episode before Whis made that statement and it didn't drain his stamina. Which is why they used it in bursts. I mean, that is kind of common sense to used your strongest form in a burst to save energy over just keeping it on, especially when each episodes was around a minute or two.

He tagged with Hit since he was in a two-on-one vs just the one-on-one in the manga. Hit also told Goku to switch since he was fighting Dypso for a period of time, where he used the Super Saiyan God to Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan switching from the manga. That and I never used their team up as an example of Goku being brilliance, although again he did do the switching to save energy. I literally gave several other examples of that.

You mentioned 113, and I extended it to 114 where he really flexed.

How could you forget that of things? It was the grand finale of the TOP in the anime. Also, they were mostly out of sync because of Vegeta, not Goku since he did try to work with Vegeta as seen here: https://youtu.be/AbUnUSSDrbU?t=189

Also, I don't see why you're focusing on Vegeta specifically when Goku in the anime was able to work perfectly with people that he never even fought with before like 18, 17, and Freeza, which is more impressive than him fighting with Vegeta who he has trained with. Even funnier, Goku and Vegeta worked together several times even before Jiren or the TOP like them teaming up to take down Merged Zamasu and the U9 wolves:

https://youtu.be/aA-YetL__5Q?t=100
https://youtu.be/1vfVwR9yDcc?t=66

That and the teamwork for Aniraza: https://youtu.be/Pm8kUwJsyN0?t=11

They team up since Goku, 17, and 18 even attacking together and 17 shielding them: https://youtu.be/mMafWxhKiMc?t=203

And even if you try to have wave the above, he teamed up with 17 in 119 to take out the last of U4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5g3BME8CBc and https://youtu.be/XnYI-oJf2es?t=35

Except Black went straight into the future because he was a weakling. So Beerus was never in danger in the present. Heck, not even his future counterpart was killed by Black.
Last edited by HeroR on Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Raimundo » Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:57 pm

Chuquita wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:46 pm
Raimundo wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:07 pm
emperior wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:59 am

I have to agree with this. I am still interested in this arc, as I think it has potential to be good, and I would want to wait until it’s over to fully judge it as a whole, but so far it’s feeling like a filler arc, and as you said it’s very fan-ficky.
The slow pace also doesn’t help. The last two chapters could have easily been crammed into one. And the Namekian fusion was useless: we already knew that Moro is incredibly powerful and is now even stronger, and we have no idea how strong that Namekian was, thus it was an useless scene.
Now, if Piccolo could somehow come back and assimilate that guy, I wouldn’t mind it. Surely it would be fanservice to hand out a power-up to Piccolo like that but I wouldn’t be against it.

But apart from callbacks, which I don’t really mind in how they have been used so far (ex. Namek actually makes sense, because Moro wanting to wish himself younger makes sense) what I am disliking the most so far is how Toyotaro is handling Goku: he’s useless. Everything he’s done so far is teleporting to Namek. That’s all. He almost has no dialogue, no meaningful interactions... nothing. It’s like the main character is Vegeta, and so far it’s like Goku has been reduced to his sidekick. I would rather see Toyotaro bench out Goku from the story for a while, as Toriyama did quite a few times in his manga, than reduce him to a mere spectator.

And this is a complain I have in general. The duo has gotten boring. Maybe it’s just me, but my interest in them has peaked with Broly’s movie (and, in the manga, when they teamed up against Jiren). Everything that I wanted to see out of the duo has already happened. They have decided to team-up and even fuse together (twice) to fight opponents much stronger than they are, and it was something built up ever since Resurrection F. And in Broly, they finally succeeded.
Kinda agree with all of his tbh. The Goku thing is interesting as I didn’t really think about that before but he somewhat feels like an afterthought thinking about it now. I’d feel more strongly though personally if I cared more about manga Goku
I hadn't even realized that was going on, but now that I read this it explains part of why I haven't been enjoying this arc much despite Goku being in it. Current manga Vegeta is just not as fun of a main character, imo.
Understandable. Though I don’t find Vegeta fun in general. Outside Namek he’s a boring as fuck character to me. Toyo doesn’t really make either one of Goku or Vegeta very interesting to follow imo.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:16 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:17 pm
Miracles wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:53 pm
TKA wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:49 pm
This reads like fanfiction.

When Toriyama writes Dragonball, he introduces a bunch of new shit, paying no reverence to the established lore. He, of course, tries to tie things in so that it makes sense, but he brings in new ideas.

This is all really self-referential stuff with nothing new. Remember Namek? Here it is again. Remember that Namek's can fuse? Here it is again. Remember the Galactic Patrol? Here they are! Remember the Daikaioshin? Here he is!

Callbacks aren't inherently bad, but this entire arc has just been all callbacks. You can smell the stink of a fan all over this.
So in other words...Toyotaro might actually have created this story instead of Toriyama.
It certainly looks and feels that way so far.
It's not as if all DB arcs were completely innovative. The various tournaments were not just new things, and Broly's film is a mix of all possible fanservices from the old TOEI films
Yeah but the fights and interactions were entertaining in those stories from Toriyama despite having the same setting. I get it, it's still early with the introduction of setting Moro up as an even bigger threat. I'm hoping the pace picks up.
Last edited by Miracles on Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Threa

Post by prince212 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:23 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:15 pm
Combining previous elements that were hardly explored in the story should not mean it is "fanfiction."
Agree , if so , all super could be label as fanfiction.
Funny that Toyotaro fan fiction introduce evil gods , the need to join a number of saiyans for a purpose . other fanfics gave us multiple universes etc ...
So calling this a fanfic is just an attempt to discredit.
Yes , this arc is a compilation of elements that had been used previously, aside of the design of the main villain, that is totally different to any other before , including fanfics.
I do miss plot twists, every thing is been foreshadow since chapter 1 , so I’m having a lack of interest, although I find Moro cruelty in a different league from all the previous in super , a real villain without excuses , I love it .
Pace feels different, anime levels ,I don’t know how to explain it but looks great to be animated ,for example , that fire around the namekians village and Moro throwing guys to burn , vegeta fight in previous chapter ..
Fans expecting toriyama,s prime material should recognize that’s not gonna happen , looks like they don’t wanna take risks and they’ll go in a safety road , broly movie is the main example of this franchise intentions . Over recycling.
Anyways still a good reading time , cool art , worth the time and limited praise .
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:31 pm

HeroR wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:47 pm
He died in the future because of Dabura, who was long dead in the current timeline. So him dealing with Zamasu had nothing to do with him preserving his own life. Especially when the Beerus who died wasn't him, but his future counterpart.
This is factually wrong...
Beerus is definitely in character.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:35 pm

Miracles wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:31 pm
HeroR wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:47 pm
He died in the future because of Dabura, who was long dead in the current timeline. So him dealing with Zamasu had nothing to do with him preserving his own life. Especially when the Beerus who died wasn't him, but his future counterpart.
This is factually wrong...
Beerus is definitely in character.
That isn't wrong. Beerus in the future died because Future Dabura killed Shin and Old Kai by breaking the Z-Sword. Black had nothing to do with that. Even Whis pointed this out. Yeah, Whis then mentioned that their world could be in danger too, but that's was just a guess. Especially when Black confirmed that he turn tail and ran once he killed his version of Goku.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:41 pm

Miracles wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:31 pm
This is factually wrong...
Beerus is definitely in character.
I was just about to post this myself.

Beerus' plan to kill Zamasu was directly in response to what Whis said, and Whis specifically said their world might also be in danger. It doesn't matter if Beerus was actually in danger -- he thought he was in danger, and therefore acted based on that speculation.

I'm actually quite amused by how many people seem to misunderstand his character. At no point in the manga does Beerus ever start giving a shit about his job duties unless it's convenient for him.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:49 pm

HeroR wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:35 pm
Miracles wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:31 pm
HeroR wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:47 pm
He died in the future because of Dabura, who was long dead in the current timeline. So him dealing with Zamasu had nothing to do with him preserving his own life. Especially when the Beerus who died wasn't him, but his future counterpart.
This is factually wrong...
Beerus is definitely in character.
That isn't wrong. Beerus in the future died because Future Dabura killed Shin and Old Kai by breaking the Z-Sword. Black had nothing to do with that. Even Whis pointed this out. Yeah, Whis then mentioned that their world could be in danger too, but that's was just a guess. Especially when Black confirmed that he turn tail and ran once he killed his version of Goku.
You are reaching hard and it's obvious. Beerus specifically states that he has to go waste Zamas because if he doesn't everyone will die. This is due to what Whis stated about Zamas waiting in hiding to possibly go and destroy their world too.
Marlowe89 wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:41 pm
Miracles wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:31 pm
This is factually wrong...
Beerus is definitely in character.
I was just about to post this myself.

Beerus' plan to kill Zamasu was directly in response to what Whis said, and Whis specifically said their world might also be in danger. It doesn't matter if Beerus was actually in danger -- he thought he was in danger, and therefore acted based on that speculation.

I'm actually quite amused by how many people seem to misunderstand his character. At no point in the manga does Beerus ever start giving a shit about his job duties unless it's convenient for him.
That's right. People need to pay attention to the DB story instead of trying to write their own.
Last edited by Miracles on Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The gr » Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:07 pm

Definitely better than last month, at least something is happening with the narrative.

Goku role always felt odd in the Manga so him doing nothing interesting does not surprised me at the slightest like man he didn't even with his evil counterpart.

I don't know if it's wrong the fact that I laughed hen Moro just kill that one special Namekian like it was nothing

Toyotaro could have definitely come up with a better excuse for Beerus absence or heck don't even mentioned him.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:14 pm

Miracles wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:49 pm
HeroR wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:35 pm
Miracles wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:31 pm


This is factually wrong...
Beerus is definitely in character.
That isn't wrong. Beerus in the future died because Future Dabura killed Shin and Old Kai by breaking the Z-Sword. Black had nothing to do with that. Even Whis pointed this out. Yeah, Whis then mentioned that their world could be in danger too, but that's was just a guess. Especially when Black confirmed that he turn tail and ran once he killed his version of Goku.
You are reaching hard and it's obvious. Beerus specifically states that he has to go waste Zamas because if he doesn't everyone will die. This is due to what Whis stated about Zamas waiting in hiding to possibly go and destroy their world too.
Marlowe89 wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:41 pm
Miracles wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:31 pm
This is factually wrong...
Beerus is definitely in character.
I was just about to post this myself.

Beerus' plan to kill Zamasu was directly in response to what Whis said, and Whis specifically said their world might also be in danger. It doesn't matter if Beerus was actually in danger -- he thought he was in danger, and therefore acted based on that speculation.

I'm actually quite amused by how many people seem to misunderstand his character. At no point in the manga does Beerus ever start giving a shit about his job duties unless it's convenient for him.
That's right. People need to pay attention to the DB story instead of trying to write their own.
I love when your go to counter is 'you're reaching hard'. And your own statement showed that Beerus wasn't just acting on pure self-perseveration with 'go waste Zamas because if he doesn't everyone will die', instead of just wanting to save his own butt alone. Which is a change from how self-absorbed he was in Battle of Gods.

Especially when Black and Zamasu didn't even kill his future counterpart.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:44 pm

HeroR wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:14 pm
Miracles wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:49 pm
HeroR wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:35 pm


That isn't wrong. Beerus in the future died because Future Dabura killed Shin and Old Kai by breaking the Z-Sword. Black had nothing to do with that. Even Whis pointed this out. Yeah, Whis then mentioned that their world could be in danger too, but that's was just a guess. Especially when Black confirmed that he turn tail and ran once he killed his version of Goku.
You are reaching hard and it's obvious. Beerus specifically states that he has to go waste Zamas because if he doesn't everyone will die. This is due to what Whis stated about Zamas waiting in hiding to possibly go and destroy their world too.
Marlowe89 wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:41 pm


I was just about to post this myself.

Beerus' plan to kill Zamasu was directly in response to what Whis said, and Whis specifically said their world might also be in danger. It doesn't matter if Beerus was actually in danger -- he thought he was in danger, and therefore acted based on that speculation.

I'm actually quite amused by how many people seem to misunderstand his character. At no point in the manga does Beerus ever start giving a shit about his job duties unless it's convenient for him.
That's right. People need to pay attention to the DB story instead of trying to write their own.
I love when your go to counter is 'you're reaching hard'. And your own statement showed that Beerus wasn't just acting on pure self-perseveration with 'go waste Zamas because if he doesn't everyone will die', instead of just wanting to save his own butt alone. Which is a change from how self-absorbed he was in Battle of Gods.

Especially when Black and Zamasu didn't even kill his future counterpart.
"Everyone" includes Beerus. The fact doesn't change that Beerus only acted on self preservation. Especially when before he stated he didn't care to get involved until he heard...
So again, you are totally wrong about Beerus character and trying to reach with petty nitpicks.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:24 pm

HeroR wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:47 pm
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:17 pm
HeroR wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:10 am


He didn't spam Blue, he uses in short bursts to get stuff done. Remember, the average episode of the TOP lasted a minute. He also only started having stamina issue after Jiren beat him up in 110. Before then, he had no stamina issue. He also got rag doll as a Super Saiyan 2 and wasn't even hurt at the end of the whole thing. As for the rocks, that was Vegeta's idea.

We saw it when Goku sparred with Gohan in Epsoide 90 (https://youtu.be/pBATkV8kV2Q?t=62) and even his fight with the U9 dog when he pointed out the flaw of him growing so big by absorbing his energy (https://youtu.be/uwZUDu_sbzs?t=27). That and it's how he dealt with one of the madams from U2.
https://youtu.be/-_yNmOJpy94?t=89

Or his tag team fight with Cali and Kale in 114:
https://youtu.be/HauUCgQaDt0?t=829

Or how he nearly rung out Jiren in 123:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUN1_uNqHuY

Goku in the anime teamed up several times with people other than Vegeta such as 17, 18, and Frieza. Goku also teamed up with Hit in 114 and didn't back down unlike the manga. To name a few:

https://youtu.be/bwVkGKbzI9w?t=11
https://youtu.be/mMafWxhKiMc?t=145
https://youtu.be/rEUuaoo1fCk?t=32
https://youtu.be/zTqYiuwzICg?t=93

Saying that Goku was more dumb muscle than his manga counterpart is simply not true. In fact, your post reads like you haven't seen the TOP in the anime in awhile. Especially when he has more teamwork under him than manga Goku who only teamed up with Vegeta and Hit, when Goku worked with his entire team at several points.

Beerus wasn't in danger since Zamasu in the manga didn't kill Beerus, Dabura did that.
At the beginning of ToP, Whis made it clear that the SSB wastes a lot of energy, and Goku used this transformation at least 4 times before facing Jiren (and every time against weaker enemies). So he was not exactly thinking about saving energy (not counting every time he lowered his guard and was almost eliminated just because he was excited about some enemy).

Anyway, I think you guys are playing intelligence in Goku battles in the manga based only on a part of the ToP.

In the manga, he defeated Hitto's Time Skip and developed his own way of counterattacking the technique (without power ups like Kaioken) and in FT saga, he developed a unique way to dominate the SSB and face Merged Zamasu (without needing 1 year in RoSaT, as Vegeta did).

And about Beerus, he knew his life was at risk anyway, after all in the future he had died and could happen the same with him in the present, so he only interfered because he was in danger
Miracles wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:53 pm

So in other words...Toyotaro might actually have created this story instead of Toriyama.
It certainly looks and feels that way so far.
It's not as if all DB arcs were completely innovative. The various tournaments were not just new things, and Broly's film is a mix of all possible fanservices from the old TOEI films
He explained why Goku just doesn't used Blue to railroad everyone from the start. It drains, but Goku still used the form in short bursts that doesn't even last a minute. It's no different than how Goku used his Kaioken on Namek. And one of the times he used it was because he needed to rush to a dying Roshi and the other time was Kale who tanked attacks from Super Saiyan 2.

Goku was beating Hit in the anime too without powering up. He only did it because Hit himself suddenly became stronger, unlike manga Hit who actually was so rusty he could only used his full power for a short time period. That and Goku fought a stronger and more skilled Hit in a rematch without using Blue Kaioken. Also, Vegeta was in the Time Chamber for six months, not a year.

Also, if you read my original post on this matter, I said that manga Goku only became dumb muscle from the TOP onwards. Before than, Goku was a smart fighter, but then his IQ suddenly got lowered.

He died in the future because of Dabura, who was long dead in the current timeline. So him dealing with Zamasu had nothing to do with him preserving his own life. Especially when the Beerus who died wasn't him, but his future counterpart.
The point is that in the manga, Goku was the first to get the idea of using SSB in short bursts to maximize Blue's power, and he did it in order to beat Hitto (who could only use his maximum power for a short period, but it was still superior to SSG and Goku needed to save energy). He not only understood and countered Hitto's Time Skip, he used a strategy that served as a basis for Vegeta to improve in the FT saga as well.

And according to Bulma, it took 1 day to recharge the fuel of the time machine, so Vegeta trained 1 year

And as has been said, even though Zamasu was not directly responsible for Beerus' death in the future, Beerus himself knew that he was a threat, especially since Zamasu wanted to kill all GoDs

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Chuquita » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:00 pm

I thought about it when Vegeta was told they were unconscious for 3 days; Toyotaro did well in avoiding a crude poop joke. I don't know about saiyan digestive systems, but a pair of humans knocked unconscious for 3 days would've soiled themselves in their sleep multiple times over by now. No scenes of Goku and Vegeta trying to scrub their clothes clean down by the nearest body of water while Vegeta curses Moro for "inflicting this humiliation" upon them.

You might be able to go 3 days without a bowel movement, but definitely not without urinating.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:09 pm

Chuquita wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:00 pm
I thought about it when Vegeta was told they were unconscious for 3 days; Toyotaro did well in avoiding a crude poop joke. I don't know about saiyan digestive systems, but a pair of humans knocked unconscious for 3 days would've soiled themselves in their sleep multiple times over by now. No scenes of Goku and Vegeta trying to scrub their clothes clean down by the nearest body of water while Vegeta curses Moro for "inflicting this humiliation" upon them.

You might be able to go 3 days without a bowel movement, but definitely not without urinating.

The Namekians cleaned them up

But honestly can’t believe you thought of this lol

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Chuquita » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:16 pm

Kinokima wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:09 pm
Chuquita wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:00 pm
I thought about it when Vegeta was told they were unconscious for 3 days; Toyotaro did well in avoiding a crude poop joke. I don't know about saiyan digestive systems, but a pair of humans knocked unconscious for 3 days would've soiled themselves in their sleep multiple times over by now. No scenes of Goku and Vegeta trying to scrub their clothes clean down by the nearest body of water while Vegeta curses Moro for "inflicting this humiliation" upon them.

You might be able to go 3 days without a bowel movement, but definitely not without urinating.

The Namekians cleaned them up

But honestly can’t believe you thought of this lol
It's not my usual reaction, but when I saw no one else talking about it I had to share.
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TKA
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:07 am

Marlowe89 wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:41 pm
Miracles wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:31 pm
This is factually wrong...
Beerus is definitely in character.
I was just about to post this myself.

Beerus' plan to kill Zamasu was directly in response to what Whis said, and Whis specifically said their world might also be in danger. It doesn't matter if Beerus was actually in danger -- he thought he was in danger, and therefore acted based on that speculation.

I'm actually quite amused by how many people seem to misunderstand his character. At no point in the manga does Beerus ever start giving a shit about his job duties unless it's convenient for him.
And really, this is in true Toriyama spirit. Everyone in the main cast is a selfish asshole, and are recognized by the story as being selfish assholes. They only act when something prevents them from living their hermit, self-centered lifestyles.

Beerus is no exception.
The Creatives who inspire me: Akira Toriyama, George Lucas, Chris Nolan, J. R. R. Tolkien and Zack Snyder


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You saw Batman v Superman? Is it the Ultimate Edition? No? Then you haven't seen Batman v Superman. Batman is out there busting his ass to avenge Goku and you won't even go see him do it?!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:29 am

If Beerus isn't going to do anything because he isn't concerned about his universe's ranking then I wish there could at least be some accountability from the Omni-King. You don't want to carry out your obligations? Well look back to Zeno's expressed disapproval to their inactivity at the end of the Universe 6 tournament then amplify that disapproval because of their lack of learning their lesson after being put on the proverbial chopping block due in part to their lacklustre management of their universe in the Tournament of Power arc.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:34 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:24 pm
HeroR wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:47 pm
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:17 pm


At the beginning of ToP, Whis made it clear that the SSB wastes a lot of energy, and Goku used this transformation at least 4 times before facing Jiren (and every time against weaker enemies). So he was not exactly thinking about saving energy (not counting every time he lowered his guard and was almost eliminated just because he was excited about some enemy).

Anyway, I think you guys are playing intelligence in Goku battles in the manga based only on a part of the ToP.

In the manga, he defeated Hitto's Time Skip and developed his own way of counterattacking the technique (without power ups like Kaioken) and in FT saga, he developed a unique way to dominate the SSB and face Merged Zamasu (without needing 1 year in RoSaT, as Vegeta did).

And about Beerus, he knew his life was at risk anyway, after all in the future he had died and could happen the same with him in the present, so he only interfered because he was in danger



It's not as if all DB arcs were completely innovative. The various tournaments were not just new things, and Broly's film is a mix of all possible fanservices from the old TOEI films
He explained why Goku just doesn't used Blue to railroad everyone from the start. It drains, but Goku still used the form in short bursts that doesn't even last a minute. It's no different than how Goku used his Kaioken on Namek. And one of the times he used it was because he needed to rush to a dying Roshi and the other time was Kale who tanked attacks from Super Saiyan 2.

Goku was beating Hit in the anime too without powering up. He only did it because Hit himself suddenly became stronger, unlike manga Hit who actually was so rusty he could only used his full power for a short time period. That and Goku fought a stronger and more skilled Hit in a rematch without using Blue Kaioken. Also, Vegeta was in the Time Chamber for six months, not a year.

Also, if you read my original post on this matter, I said that manga Goku only became dumb muscle from the TOP onwards. Before than, Goku was a smart fighter, but then his IQ suddenly got lowered.

He died in the future because of Dabura, who was long dead in the current timeline. So him dealing with Zamasu had nothing to do with him preserving his own life. Especially when the Beerus who died wasn't him, but his future counterpart.
The point is that in the manga, Goku was the first to get the idea of using SSB in short bursts to maximize Blue's power, and he did it in order to beat Hitto (who could only use his maximum power for a short period, but it was still superior to SSG and Goku needed to save energy). He not only understood and countered Hitto's Time Skip, he used a strategy that served as a basis for Vegeta to improve in the FT saga as well.

And according to Bulma, it took 1 day to recharge the fuel of the time machine, so Vegeta trained 1 year

And as has been said, even though Zamasu was not directly responsible for Beerus' death in the future, Beerus himself knew that he was a threat, especially since Zamasu wanted to kill all GoDs
That really didn't make much sense for Goku to be the first since Vegeta also trained with the form for three years and somehow didn't realized he lost 90% of his power by going in and out of the form? It is also no different than what anime Goku did when he learned how Hit's attack worked before going Blue and beat him up. Then Hit suddenly improved him. Even in anime Goku took the same route as manga Goku, he would still needed Blue Kaioken simply because anime Hit is stronger than his manga counterpart.

That and Goku in the anime put up a performance against Hit without using Blue Kaioken when he fought a stronger and more skilled Hit in 72: https://youtu.be/ZCl7DRTny_Q?t=555

That's assuming he went into the chamber right away since in the anime, it was clearly half a day since it was night when Vegeta went in and he came out in the morning.

He was a threat to the future gods, not to him personally since they knew he ran away. Beerus went after Zamasu since as you put it, he was going to kill a bunch of people. So it wasn't self-preservation as some posters pushed, which is a changed from how he was in Battle of Gods where he couldn't care about anyone outside of himself.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:40 pm

Miracles wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:44 pm
HeroR wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:14 pm
Miracles wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:49 pm

You are reaching hard and it's obvious. Beerus specifically states that he has to go waste Zamas because if he doesn't everyone will die. This is due to what Whis stated about Zamas waiting in hiding to possibly go and destroy their world too.

That's right. People need to pay attention to the DB story instead of trying to write their own.
I love when your go to counter is 'you're reaching hard'. And your own statement showed that Beerus wasn't just acting on pure self-perseveration with 'go waste Zamas because if he doesn't everyone will die', instead of just wanting to save his own butt alone. Which is a change from how self-absorbed he was in Battle of Gods.

Especially when Black and Zamasu didn't even kill his future counterpart.
"Everyone" includes Beerus. The fact doesn't change that Beerus only acted on self preservation. Especially when before he stated he didn't care to get involved until he heard...
So again, you are totally wrong about Beerus character and trying to reach with petty nitpicks.
You're the one who just said he also acted because people were going to die, not just because his life was in danger. Which is the point me and others were making. Beerus in Battle of Gods wouldn't have acted because Zamasu was no threat to him since he ran away to another timeline.

So it isn't a nitpick that Beerus went from being far more concern about his universe and others to, 'oh boy, someone else is doing my job, which is fine because that planet sucks'. Especially after his ass got roosted over this just a few arcs ago. If Beerus really was all about 'self-preservation', why doesn't he try to get the mortal level in his universe up so when Zeno decides one day on a whim to erased low ranking universe he won't be on the choppy block again and have to depend on his braindead mortals to save him? So even by a 'self-preservation', Beerus' actions make no sense. Unless we're trying to say Beerus is too lazy to live, which goes against how you claimed to have acted in the Future Trunks Saga.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:19 pm

HeroR wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:40 pm
Miracles wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:44 pm
HeroR wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:14 pm


I love when your go to counter is 'you're reaching hard'. And your own statement showed that Beerus wasn't just acting on pure self-perseveration with 'go waste Zamas because if he doesn't everyone will die', instead of just wanting to save his own butt alone. Which is a change from how self-absorbed he was in Battle of Gods.

Especially when Black and Zamasu didn't even kill his future counterpart.
"Everyone" includes Beerus. The fact doesn't change that Beerus only acted on self preservation. Especially when before he stated he didn't care to get involved until he heard...
So again, you are totally wrong about Beerus character and trying to reach with petty nitpicks.
You're the one who just said he also acted because people were going to die, not just because his life was in danger. Which is the point me and others were making. Beerus in Battle of Gods wouldn't have acted because Zamasu was no threat to him since he ran away to another timeline.

So it isn't a nitpick that Beerus went from being far more concern about his universe and others to, 'oh boy, someone else is doing my job, which is fine because that planet sucks'. Especially after his ass got roosted over this just a few arcs ago. If Beerus really was all about 'self-preservation', why doesn't he try to get the mortal level in his universe up so when Zeno decides one day on a whim to erased low ranking universe he won't be on the choppy block again and have to depend on his braindead mortals to save him? So even by a 'self-preservation', Beerus' actions make no sense. Unless we're trying to say Beerus is too lazy to live, which goes against how you claimed to have acted in the Future Trunks Saga.
Get out of your own headcanon and pay attention to the story. Beerus didn't care at first that Black was wrecking the timeline until he heard that he died in one timeline then he wanted to get involved! Due to the possibility of Black showing up in his timeline and ultimately killing him. Whis even made the point how Beerus himself lets lunatics run amok in his world as well [Moro/ Freeza.] Beerus only went to kill Zamas so he wouldn't possibly kill his Kaioshin, in turn dying himself. Naturally everyone would die if Beerus himself died without protection.

You are nitpicking in order to try and prove an inconsistency when Beerus is like this in all stories. Even in your precious anime.
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."~Psalm 14:1

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